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Webb should close

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QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 10:46 AM)
everything in this post regarding relief pitchers is completely, 100% backwards.

 

+1. The Davidson trade was worth doing a few months ago and would be worth doing again today. Reed's numbers don't smack of anything close to an elite reliever.

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QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 11:46 AM)
everything in this post regarding relief pitchers is completely, 100% backwards.

 

I think quality closers are a premiun and you don't trade one for a good prospect. Let's see how fast Davidson becomes an impact player and how fast we get a quality closer.

 

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 25, 2014 -> 10:58 AM)
I think quality closers are a premiun and you don't trade one for a good prospect. Let's see how fast Davidson becomes an impact player and how fast we get a quality closer.

 

If "quality" closers are at a premuim, what does that make 30 homer potential 3B's?

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Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 3m

 

If White Sox have save opportunity today Ventura says Belisario gets the call again

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2014 -> 11:05 AM)
Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 3m

 

If White Sox have save opportunity today Ventura says Belisario gets the call again

 

How about no

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 25, 2014 -> 11:58 AM)
I think quality closers are a premiun and you don't trade one for a good prospect. Let's see how fast Davidson becomes an impact player and how fast we get a quality closer.

How long was Eric Gagne a quality closer?

 

Heath Bell?

 

Bobby Jenks?

 

Outside of Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman and Dennis Eckersley, can you name me a closer who's been worth the money he got paid?

 

BJ Ryan. Need I say more?

 

Why don't you tell me about our 2005 bullpen. Those guys must have had extremely long, fulfilling, careers given the types of numbers they put up that year. Oh... oh wait... pretty much all of them disappeared immediately following '05 except for Jenks and Marte.

 

Bullpens are fickle. Relief pitchers even more so. Paying top dollar for a reliever is asinine. If you can trade a reliever for a 3B, you do it every. Single. Time.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:01 PM)
If "quality" closers are at a premuim, what does that make 30 homer potential 3B's?

 

Quality 3B. I don't disagree. But Reed was closing games in the majors and Davidson was hitting 20 HRs in the minors. Huge difference. Davidson is also a very questionable 3B defensively. I was very much against the Peavy for Middlebrooks talk last season. Another 3B prospect, even a little more advanced than Davidson but also questionable defensively as well. He is still struggling big time so I am glad we went w Garcia.

 

It all comes down to how easy it is to find a quality closer when we are ready to compete. We don't need one this year because we are rebuilding. The big name closers like Papilbon and Nathan got big bucks in FA and I am not sure hahn will invest that. In fact Boston went out and signed 2 closers for over 11Mil to replace Papilbon. Too many fans think anyone can be a closer. I think we gave up a good one that was young and could get better.

Edited by SCCWS

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QUOTE (oldsox @ May 25, 2014 -> 07:17 AM)
Are you telling me that he wouldn't undo the Reed/Davidson trade, if he could?

I never thought too highly of Addison Reed. Davidson doesn't look too good right now either.

 

I would rather have Peavey and Rios on this roster in place of Leury and Avi Garcia though.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 25, 2014 -> 11:34 AM)
Quality 3B. I don't disagree. But Reed was closing games in the majors and Davidson was hitting 20 HRs in the minors. Huge difference. Davidson is also a very questionable 3B defensively. I was very much against the Peavy for Middlebrooks talk last season. Another 3B prospect, even a little more advanced than Davidson but also questionable defensively as well. He is still struggling big time so I am glad we went w Garcia.

 

It all comes down to how easy it is to find a quality closer when we are ready to compete. We don't need one this year because we are rebuilding. The big name closers like Papilbon and Nathan got big bucks in FA and I am not sure hahn will invest that. In fact Boston went out and signed 2 closers for over 11Mil to replace Papilbon. Too many fans think anyone can be a closer. I think we gave up a good one that was young and could get better.

 

Addison Reed isn't a quality closer either. He is a middle of the road closer right now.

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QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:40 PM)
I never thought too highly of Addison Reed. Davidson doesn't look too good right now either.

 

I would rather have Peavey and Rios on this roster in place of Leury and Avi Garcia though.

Avi got hurt.

 

please.

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QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:12 PM)
How long was Eric Gagne a quality closer?

 

Heath Bell?

 

Bobby Jenks?

 

Outside of Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman and Dennis Eckersley, can you name me a closer who's been worth the money he got paid?

 

BJ Ryan. Need I say more?

 

Why don't you tell me about our 2005 bullpen. Those guys must have had extremely long, fulfilling, careers given the types of numbers they put up that year. Oh... oh wait... pretty much all of them disappeared immediately following '05 except for Jenks and Marte.

 

Bullpens are fickle. Relief pitchers even more so. Paying top dollar for a reliever is asinine. If you can trade a reliever for a 3B, you do it every. Single. Time.

 

Joe Nathan got 9 Mil. Again you are saying reliever, I am saying closer. Hahn should move Beckham back to a 3rd baseman and then we can trade him for a closer in return based on your logic.

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QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 25, 2014 -> 11:40 AM)
I never thought too highly of Addison Reed. Davidson doesn't look too good right now either.

 

I would rather have Peavey and Rios on this roster in place of Leury and Avi Garcia though.

 

Rios was purely a salary dumb. But the potential alone we got in the Peavy deal is amazing. Avi, although hurt has great upside. Montas, great start with the Dash and only 21. Rondon 20, great fielder, hitting 260 in Kanny isn't bad. And Wendelken 21, great BB/SO ratio, ERA a little high at 4.3 but has pitched well recently.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:04 PM)
Joe Nathan got 9 Mil. Again you are saying reliever, I am saying closer. Hahn should move Beckham back to a 3rd baseman and then we can trade him for a closer in return based on your logic.

 

Should we talk about what powerhitting 3B's make?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2014 -> 05:05 PM)
Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 3m

 

If White Sox have save opportunity today Ventura says Belisario gets the call again

 

 

Misplaced allegiance. Webb probably should be closing at some point but first let's not give up a bunch of walks. We need a closer who can get the other team out quickly but first and foremost get that first hitter out. I am not sure anyone we have on the roster currently is closer material. But, I also agree Reed was not the answer when compared to the potential benefit we see with Davidson at 3B or wherever he ends up

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Let's not forget how well Sergio Santos has done since leaving the Sox.

 

Not that we got a great trade return there, but at least we avoided paying him the early money we committed to him.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 25, 2014 -> 01:04 PM)
Joe Nathan got 9 Mil. Again you are saying reliever, I am saying closer. Hahn should move Beckham back to a 3rd baseman and then we can trade him for a closer in return based on your logic.

 

Weird I thought closers WERE relief pitchers.

 

Whatever happened to Dustin Hermanson?

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QUOTE (Reddy @ May 25, 2014 -> 02:14 PM)
Weird I thought closers WERE relief pitchers.

 

Whatever happened to Dustin Hermanson?

He retired due to the back problems that derailed him mid-05.

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Daniel Webb is better than Addison Reed is. For some reason, Webb isn't closing but the White Sox basically acquired one of the better 3B prospects in the game and get to control him for 6 years for a Relief Pitcher whose numbers could be duplicated and surpassed by at least 1 member of the current team. Sounds like a damn good trade to me.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2014 -> 02:17 PM)
He retired due to the back problems that derailed him mid-05.

(i'm aware. I was making a point about effective closers)

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 25, 2014 -> 12:31 PM)
Daniel Webb is better than Addison Reed is. For some reason, Webb isn't closing but the White Sox basically acquired one of the better 3B prospects in the game and get to control him for 6 years for a Relief Pitcher whose numbers could be duplicated and surpassed by at least 1 member of the current team. Sounds like a damn good trade to me.

 

 

Now that's pushing it.

 

I don't think there's any guarantee that Webb's going to be an 80-85% closer.

 

He might be able to do it. But it certainly doesn't feel like an automatic assumption, either. If Cooper felt that Webb gave us the best chance to close out games this season, wouldn't he be the closer on Sunday instead of sticking with Belisario (who's had 3 shaky outings in a row)? Wouldn't Hahn intervene and overrule Ventura if it was that obvious?

 

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Now that's pushing it.

 

I don't think there's any guarantee that Webb's going to be an 80-85% closer.

 

He might be able to do it. But it certainly doesn't feel like an automatic assumption, either. If Cooper felt that Webb gave us the best chance to close out games this season, wouldn't he be the closer on Sunday instead of sticking with Belisario (who's had 3 shaky outings in a row)? Wouldn't Hahn intervene and overrule Ventura if it was that obvious?

[/quote

 

I think Webb has better stuff. I also think that the Sox want to put as many vets in the closer role as possible because the league overrates saves and you can possibly trade those guys because of the results. Reed's value was inflated in arbitration and most likely in trade talks because of the save stat.

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He's also only recorded 15 saves in his entire minor league career. 277 hits in 260 innings. Yes, part of that was as a starter.

 

Webb definitely throws 2-3 MPH harder. However, he hasn't quite mastered either the change or curve, which is the reason he was pulled from a starter's role in the first place. If you go back to 2012 in Kannapolis, he had a very pedestrian season. So even though he was quite successful in 2013 and jumped levels (just like Semien), he's far from a finished or refined product.

 

Reed has a pretty decent slider, but inconsistent still with that pitch. It hasn't become anything like Rivera's cutter. However, Addison has been born/bred into that closer's role and mentality, ever since he was at SD State with Strasburg and throughout the minors. Some pitchers take to that role (like Jenks) like a duck to water, many others run in fear from the 9th.

 

One way or the other, Webb's got to perfect a second pitch to keep hitters off his fastball, especially when he's behind in the count.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2014 -> 09:15 PM)
He's also only recorded 15 saves in his entire minor league career. 277 hits in 260 innings. Yes, part of that was as a starter.

 

Webb definitely throws 2-3 MPH harder. However, he hasn't quite mastered either the change or curve, which is the reason he was pulled from a starter's role in the first place. If you go back to 2012 in Kannapolis, he had a very pedestrian season. So even though he was quite successful in 2013 and jumped levels (just like Semien), he's far from a finished or refined product.

 

everything said above is very true. that is why they, the sox brass, made him a RP, with the eventual move to closer

the following yr. I believe his time this yr is work on his pitch, location and feel of the game, just my opinion.

no one would have thought that 2 of our RP will be on the DL.

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