Sox acquire Michael Taylor

[GreenSox]

Who was flipped with Eduardo Escobar for Francisco Liriano, one of the ten best pitchers in the NL last season.

How nice. Liriano was good with the Pirates. He sported a 5.4 ERA for us.

But I did forget about that pitcher, who yielded us zip. Was thinking about Castro, who's yielded less than zip.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

As judged by Rick Hahn.

 

Well trolled. You can judge that this trade is bad, but can't judge what was out there that was actually available.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

No because what he does in AAA means squat. He isn't a prospect. I have had zero AB in the major leagues, maybe I am a decent prospect. He is 28, go ask Hahn, he didn't acquire him for the White Sox. He acquired him for Charlotte.

 

Bring back Joe Borchard. If you or anyone are holding out hope this guy will turn into a decent major leaguer, you are going to be very disappointed, but he should be good for the Knights.

 

None of what your disputing has been said, at least not by me.

 

I never said he was a prospect, in fact, the comment you are quoting is of me saying that exact same thing. I especially never said he was a decent prospect. I also didn't say he was acquired for the major league roster. I also never displayed any hope he would turn in to a major leaguer.

 

What I DID say though, is that you can't look at his sporadic 81 ABs across 3 seasons as evidence of what kind of player he is. There are hundreds of examples players who struggled in their first 100 AB before improving. Doesn't mean that will be the case with Taylor if he ever makes the major league club, it just means you can forget those 81 AB ever existed while you label him "a career .125 hitter" or whatever the inconsequential number was exactly. It means absolutely nothing.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

How nice. Liriano was good with the Pirates. He sported a 5.4 ERA for us.

But I did forget about that pitcher, who yielded us zip. Was thinking about Castro, who's yielded less than zip.

 

Also, I believe in every one of those trades where you claimed "we got 1 pitching prospect back", we actually got multiple pieces back. Just wanted to point that out.

[GreenSox]

Also, I believe in every one of those trades where you claimed "we got 1 pitching prospect back", we actually got multiple pieces back. Just wanted to point that out.

Santos was for 1.

Anyway except for the guy we sent to the Twins who may be progressing (have no idea), none of the pitching prospects did a thing.

[SCCWS]

Meh, this is a team coming off a 99 loses and going into a rebuilding year, you don't really need a top notch closer when you're not expected to win.

 

Reed was gonna be on his way to making "big bucks" so you trade him while he's still cheap.

 

Hahn seemingly had a plan for the bullpen as well, that plan was loading up on guys who didn't give up the long ball. Reed doesn't fit that plan. He's given up 8 HRs in 29 innings, only John Danks has given up more HRs on this team with 9 in 82. The bullpen as a whole has given up 12 HRs, and that includes 2 by Frank Francisco who wasn't originally "part of the plan".

 

Reed does allow homeruns, many solo ones. But he also has only allowed 13 earned runs and 4 walks in 29 innings. His replacement , Belisario, making big bucks now has allowed 18 earned runs. Reed is only 25 so maybe he gets better. Belisario is 32.

 

[Marty34]

None of what your disputing has been said, at least not by me.

 

I never said he was a prospect, in fact, the comment you are quoting is of me saying that exact same thing. I especially never said he was a decent prospect. I also didn't say he was acquired for the major league roster. I also never displayed any hope he would turn in to a major leaguer.

 

What I DID say though, is that you can't look at his sporadic 81 ABs across 3 seasons as evidence of what kind of player he is. There are hundreds of examples players who struggled in their first 100 AB before improving. Doesn't mean that will be the case with Taylor if he ever makes the major league club, it just means you can forget those 81 AB ever existed while you label him "a career .125 hitter" or whatever the inconsequential number was exactly. It means absolutely nothing.

 

81 Major League at bats at the age of 28 is all you need to know about this guy.

[caulfield12]

Reed does allow homeruns, many solo ones. But he also has only allowed 13 earned runs and 4 walks in 29 innings. His replacement , Belisario, making big bucks now has allowed 18 earned runs. Reed is only 25 so maybe he gets better. Belisario is 32.

 

 

The majority of those runs were in the first 2-3 weeks of the season. He hasn't been a great closer, but he was very good in the 8th inning after Putnam and before Lindstrom before Matt got hurt.

 

Belisario was never signed by the closer, anyway, the idea was always Jones, Lindstrom and maybe Webb.

Edited June 15, 2014 by caulfield12

[Quin]

Reed does allow homeruns, many solo ones. But he also has only allowed 13 earned runs and 4 walks in 29 innings. His replacement , Belisario, making big bucks now has allowed 18 earned runs. Reed is only 25 so maybe he gets better. Belisario is 32.

 

Belisario is making big bucks?

[LittleHurt05]

Belisario is making big bucks?

 

He actually makes $3 million surprisingly, which is a good chunk of change for a mediocre reliever.

[caulfield12]

Which is more important, a 3B who will hit 25 homers for 6 years, cost-controlled...or an average MLB closer who will start earning a lot more money than he's worth beginning in 2015?

[Dick Allen]

Which is more important, a 3B who will hit 25 homers for 6 years, cost-controlled...or an average MLB closer who will start earning a lot more money than he's worth beginning in 2015?

The 3rd baseman. Unfortunately the guy they got is hitting .180 in AAA and has fanned more than Tyler Flowers. And as a defender, he supposedly had a great bat. He in no way is the 3rd baseman you are describing.BTW the Sox are paying Bellisario $2.5 million more than they would have paid Reed this year and he is also 1st year arb eligible next season.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

Webb and Jaye were the return for Frasor. And to make another meaningless correction, Taylor had had 81 PAs, not 81 ABs.

 

My b.

 

Stewart, Frasor, and dumping Teahen for EJax

 

Frasor became Jaye and Webb a few months later.

 

It got there eventually.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Quinarvy

[caulfield12]

The 3rd baseman. Unfortunately the guy they got is hitting .180 in AAA and has fanned more than Tyler Flowers. And as a defender, he supposedly had a great bat. He in no way is the 3rd baseman you are describing.BTW the Sox are paying Bellisario $2.5 million more than they would have paid Reed this year and he is also 1st year arb eligible next season.

 

 

So who would you have traded for instead?

 

We've gone through this dance over and over again about Sergio Santos as well, although that one can't be blamed on Rick Hahn.

 

 

If you want to criticize Hahn, you have to look at the organization as Hahn inherited the reigns. Signing Sale and Quintana to extensions, bringing in Jose Abreu, Adam Eaton, Avisail Garcia, Montas, Putnam and Noesi, improving the Latin American operations (including Adolfo)...that outweighs the bad of Keppinger, Downs, Paulino and whatever happens with Matt Davidson eventually. And time will tell with the Tim Anderson and Rodon/Adams selections.

 

Would you really be happy if we had Jimenez or Santana now? At this point, we'd be talking about selling them off too, just like Peavy...because of the lowered attendance/lost revenues from sponsorships.

 

Finally, do you blame Hahn for Erik Johnson completely falling apart with no reasonable explanation?

 

 

[iamshack]

Again, this business of retooling/rebuilding/going young is difficult business. You can't view it the sme way you do with trading for veterans. You're essentially getting into the speculating business, and so there are going to be misses...probably more misses than hits...but you're hoping for a few big hits. So far, the big hit has been Abreu. The book is still out on Eaton and Avisail. Things do not look good for Davidson, but by no means is that a done deal.

 

IMO, we need Rodon to be a big hit, and we need one of Avisail/Eaton/Davidson to be above-average and another one to be solid. Then we need to make something of Alexei/Beckham/Danks before they're gone...

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

81 Major League at bats at the age of 28 is all you need to know about this guy.

 

He has had 0 Major League at bats at the age of 28. Try again, and this time say something relevant and different, and hopefully correct.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Chilihead90

[caulfield12]

Again, this business of retooling/rebuilding/going young is difficult business. You can't view it the sme way you do with trading for veterans. You're essentially getting into the speculating business, and so there are going to be misses...probably more misses than hits...but you're hoping for a few big hits. So far, the big hit has been Abreu. The book is still out on Eaton and Avisail. Things do not look good for Davidson, but by no means is that a done deal.

 

IMO, we need Rodon to be a big hit, and we need one of Avisail/Eaton/Davidson to be above-average and another one to be solid. Then we need to make something of Alexei/Beckham/Danks before they're gone...

 

 

That means Montas or Beck need to stick at the back of the rotation, or they're simply going to get rid of one "bad" veteran pitching contract to add another if they're not careful.

[greg775]

Matt Davidson this season at Charlotte

218 at bats .183 batting average, .256 on base percentage. He does have 20 walks to 83 strikeouts. He's hit 10 home runs and nine doubles. So out of his 40 hits, 19 are homers or doubles. Am I to assume he's a classic power hitter? He's trying to jack it out every time up? Maybe he's mad he didn't start the year with the big club. Anybody know anything about his personality? He's not tearing it up.

[witesoxfan]

Your poor grammar aside, aren't you exaggerating just a bit?

 

You LOVE Paulina? Not like, not understand, but you LOVE the Paulina signing?

You LOVE Mitch Boggs? Not like, not understand, but you LOVE the Boggs signing?

You LOVE the Davidson trade?

You LOVE the Sierra signing?

You LOVE de Aza?

 

(if you're pointing out grammatical issues, you're bored and your point is weak (check that one) - I was on my phone)

 

Yes (PaulinO - PaulinA is the feminine form of the name)

Yes

Yes

Yes

KW, but yes

 

What in the hell was the risk in any of those moves? Sometimes s*** doesn't work. Maybe take a step back and realize that sometime. You like to jump to conclusions and make decisions in hindsight.

 

If those are the biggest shortcomings you can find, then he's still a 10 out of 10.

 

Frankly, his biggest failure has been the Keppinger move and, as far as I'm aware, he hasn't even played baseball with anyone yet, so that shows how much he cared about that. The Sox got rid of him as soon as they could and admitted a mistake.

Edited June 16, 2014 by witesoxfan

[witesoxfan]

Holy cow, I just read through this thread.

Edited June 16, 2014 by witesoxfan

[harfman77]

(if you're pointing out grammatical issues, you're bored and your point is weak (check that one) - I was on my phone)

 

Yes (PaulinO - PaulinA is the feminine form of the name)

Yes

Yes

Yes

KW, but yes

 

What in the hell was the risk in any of those moves? Sometimes s*** doesn't work. Maybe take a step back and realize that sometime. You like to jump to conclusions and make decisions in hindsight.

 

If those are the biggest shortcomings you can find, then he's still a 10 out of 10.

 

Frankly, his biggest failure has been the Keppinger move and, as far as I'm aware, he hasn't even played baseball with anyone yet, so that shows how much he cared about that. The Sox got rid of him as soon as they could and admitted a mistake.

 

Totally agree with this. Hahn is running out and buying lottery tickets and hoping that one or two will stick. It has worked out well enough with Putnam and Belly so far. Rodriguez and Taylor were both formerly top 50 prospects in all of baseball, so there is some upside there, the problem is trying to pull it out of them at this stage in their careers. There is nothing wrong with taking a chance on these guys, it is not like they are in the way of some prospects moving forward in the organization.

[southsider2k5]

Totally agree with this. Hahn is running out and buying lottery tickets and hoping that one or two will stick. It has worked out well enough with Putnam and Belly so far. Rodriguez and Taylor were both formerly top 50 prospects in all of baseball, so there is some upside there, the problem is trying to pull it out of them at this stage in their careers. There is nothing wrong with taking a chance on these guys, it is not like they are in the way of some prospects moving forward in the organization.

 

That is also worth mentioning. It is keeping prospects from needing to be rushed into situations they aren't ready for, which is good for development.

[Marty34]

He has had 0 Major League at bats at the age of 28. Try again, and this time say something relevant and different, and hopefully correct.

 

Michael Taylor is not a Major League caliber player. That's about as correct as I can put it.

[witesoxfan]

Michael Taylor is not a Major League caliber player. That's about as correct as I can put it.

 

You probably should have relayed this information to the front office before they made the trade then. Silly you.

[Marty34]

Totally agree with this. Hahn is running out and buying lottery tickets and hoping that one or two will stick. It has worked out well enough with Putnam and Belly so far. Rodriguez and Taylor were both formerly top 50 prospects in all of baseball, so there is some upside there, the problem is trying to pull it out of them at this stage in their careers. There is nothing wrong with taking a chance on these guys, it is not like they are in the way of some prospects moving forward in the organization.

 

Lottery tickets are all well and good, but what it says about this rebuild is it's going to take longer than planned.