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Leonard Zelig

The Curious Case of Mark Buehrle

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I really wish this stilled belonged in Palehose.

 

http://grantland.com/features/mark-buehrle...rising-success/

 

It's awesome that he could potentially get to 300 wins. I think we would all be shocked if he signs another contract once this one is finished though. Always been a family man and has spoken about retiring too many times.

 

He seems to be one of the last Tommy John type pitchers. Who else is out there today that is comparable? Zito?

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Split this out of the MLB Catch-All and combined them, given Buehrle's iconic status around here.

 

It really is a great breakdown of what makes Buehrle a great pitcher. It's not a stretch to say that Buehrle is the greatest defensive pitcher of his era, both before and after the ball is thrown, and it's what pushes him over the top. He's just an incredibly unique pitcher.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 01:31 PM)
Split this out of the MLB Catch-All and combined them, given Buehrle's iconic status around here.

 

It really is a great breakdown of what makes Buehrle a great pitcher. It's not a stretch to say that Buehrle is the greatest defensive pitcher of his era, both before and after the ball is thrown, and it's what pushes him over the top. He's just an incredibly unique pitcher.

 

Thanks. I dind't see that it had already been posted in there.

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Only way 56 achieves the longevity milestones, imo, is if he becomes a Cardinal and feels like he's able to have his ideal family life while still playing.

 

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 03:21 PM)
So this entire time the difference between Buehrle and your average #4/5 soft tossing lefty has been defense. Wow.

 

There's some guile in there, and a FIP of 4.12 for his career indicates that he's always been a good pitcher, but if he were a bad defensive player and he allowed baserunners to steal on him like crazy, his career could be very similar to that of someone like Joe Saunders instead.

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Thanks for posting the link.

 

Buehrle seemed to enjoy playing the game like anyone of us would. Grateful to be there, smiling, having a good time. Cared about his family and how his profession affects them. I wish more players were like that.

 

If the HoF was filled will guys that made baseball a great sport Buehrle would be a first ballot HoF. Baseball is much better off because he played.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 03:21 PM)
So this entire time the difference between Buehrle and your average #4/5 soft tossing lefty has been defense. Wow.

 

It’s a little deeper than that. They specifically mention HIS defense and fielding ability, not just the guys playing behind him. Not to mention his ability to completely shut the opponent’s running game down.

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 03:33 PM)
It’s a little deeper than that. They specifically mention HIS defense and fielding ability, not just the guys playing behind him. Not to mention his ability to completely shut the opponent’s running game down.

I had long felt that this was a key component of his underrated-by-advanced-metrics-ness, and I'm not sure that it's total effects are fully measured at this point.

 

For instance:

 

The article mentions that no one has even attempted a SB against Mark this year. But it's not just about the SB's and the pickoffs. It stands to reason that a baserunner on 1B is physically closer to the bag and/or leaning toward it in fear of the pickoff move. This means that they are a bit less likely to advance to 3rd on a single and a bit less likely to score on a double, I would think, and I don't believe these effects are currently part of the equation. I could be wrong, or the effects could be so tiny as to lack significance, but it's something I've wondered about.

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Buehrle is my favorite White Sox ever and one of, if not, the best pitcher in franchise history. He will always be a member of the White Sox and this awesome article deserves being in PHT for all Sox fans to see. I hope one day he wins #300 with the Sox and he ends up having another 5-7 year successful run on the southside!!!

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 04:48 PM)
Buehrle is my favorite White Sox ever and one of, if not, the best pitcher in franchise history. He will always be a member of PHT and this awesome article deserves in PHT. I hope one day he wins #300 with the Sox and he ends up having another 5-7 year successful run on the southside!!!

 

Here, here. Mark Buehrle will be one of those guys I tell my grandkids about.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 03:59 PM)
There's some guile in there, and a FIP of 4.12 for his career indicates that he's always been a good pitcher, but if he were a bad defensive player and he allowed baserunners to steal on him like crazy, his career could be very similar to that of someone like Joe Saunders instead.

 

Ha, that's the exact same comparison I was thinking of, just got lazy and went generic instead

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 04:33 PM)
It’s a little deeper than that. They specifically mention HIS defense and fielding ability, not just the guys playing behind him. Not to mention his ability to completely shut the opponent’s running game down.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant. His ability to field, hold on and pick off runners, and prevent stolen bases is such a big difference for a non strike out guy.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 02:58 PM)
Yeah, that's what I meant. His ability to field, hold on and pick off runners, and prevent stolen bases is such a big difference for a non strike out guy.

As they point out given the ridiculous runs saved statistics he has put up. However, maybe I'm an idiot, but his defense doesn't make up for the fact that his peripheals are all normal (with above average results). Yeah he's saved that many runs, but had he not, you'd have seen even more hits, etc, which would then really just leave you to his ability to hold runners, which can't truly be measured (+ some benefit for turning double-plays, etc).

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I just want him to retire here.

 

But man he's something else. Also, we should just stop comparing any pitcher (Quintana) to Buehrle. We're more likely to see the next Sale than Buehrle.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 06:02 PM)
I just want him to retire here.

 

But man he's something else. Also, we should just stop comparing any pitcher (Quintana) to Buehrle. We're more likely to see the next Sale than Buehrle.

I'm fine with comparing someone to Buehrle if they're like Mark, Quintana is a completely different animal.

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His fast pace has to help too.

 

Anybody know if his teammates have better fielding metrics when he's pitching vs. ave pitcher? Or if he gets more run support than other pitchers because his teammates are more in-tune to the game?

 

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Jamie Moyer and Tom Glavine are probably better comparisons...something of a combination of the the two. Glavine was more athletic in general, but it's always easy to overlook that side of Mark's game because he's not exactly sporting a "Gabe Kapler-esque" physique.

 

Will always be remembered for how quickly he worked, changing speeds, location, command&control, his tarp sliding during rain delays, his "non-traditional/spring training" number (56), his constant connection to the Cardinals and pitching in relief in Game 3 of the World Series.

 

And his generous off the field work, such as the dog shelters/humane societies (volunteering with his wife).

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 10:16 PM)
Thanks for posting the link.

 

Buehrle seemed to enjoy playing the game like anyone of us would. Grateful to be there, smiling, having a good time. Cared about his family and how his profession affects them. I wish more players were like that.

 

If the HoF was filled will guys that made baseball a great sport Buehrle would be a first ballot HoF. Baseball is much better off because he played.

Great great post.

 

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 10:48 PM)
Buehrle is my favorite White Sox ever and one of, if not, the best pitcher in franchise history. He will always be a member of the White Sox and this awesome article deserves being in PHT for all Sox fans to see. I hope one day he wins #300 with the Sox and he ends up having another 5-7 year successful run on the southside!!!

Awesome post.

 

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Jul 18, 2014 -> 01:08 AM)
His fast pace has to help too.

 

Anybody know if his teammates have better fielding metrics when he's pitching vs. ave pitcher? Or if he gets more run support than other pitchers because his teammates are more in-tune to the game?

That's what I was thinking. The fast pace is a huge part of what makes him great. More pitchers should get a clue and copy Buehrle. His style can work. Great to see no negative comments in a Buehrle thread. He is amazing.

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 03:47 PM)
I had long felt that this was a key component of his underrated-by-advanced-metrics-ness, and I'm not sure that it's total effects are fully measured at this point.

 

For instance:

 

The article mentions that no one has even attempted a SB against Mark this year. But it's not just about the SB's and the pickoffs. It stands to reason that a baserunner on 1B is physically closer to the bag and/or leaning toward it in fear of the pickoff move. This means that they are a bit less likely to advance to 3rd on a single and a bit less likely to score on a double, I would think, and I don't believe these effects are currently part of the equation. I could be wrong, or the effects could be so tiny as to lack significance, but it's something I've wondered about.

 

His pickoff of Sammy Sosa shortly after he walked to become the only Texas baserunner of the night during his no-hitter is a big reason I might prefer that game to the Perfecto. Replace the Outfielder Weiss' catch in the Perfect Game with a standard ground out or K and it wouldn't even be close.

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I know that Mark in the HoF is the longest of long shots but if I was taking someone who knew nothing about baseball into the hall of fame and told them why it's such a great game would you rather show them Clemens or Buehrle? Would you rather tell the story of Mark's career or Bonds? If we started valuing character and contribution to the game as much as gaudy stats, we'd start to get at the heart of why baseball is such a great sport.

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