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Ebola in the USA

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 09:07 AM)
I'm not defending the hospital one bit. I've been saying they f***ed up from basically the beginning. Where did you get that?

 

I'm saying "it's not spreading in any unusual way and there's no reason for this silly panic".

 

You responded to a statement about precautions not being taken at the facility by redirecting to the people the man came into contact with on the outside. It seemed like a deflection. I agree with your second statement, but it appears that either through negligence or ignorance, the hospital also messed this up.

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QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 09:14 AM)
You responded to a statement about precautions not being taken at the facility by redirecting to the people the man came into contact with on the outside. It seemed like a deflection. I agree with your second statement, but it appears that either through negligence or ignorance, the hospital also messed this up.

Look at the reason why I did that. It's focusing on the hospital.

 

After they inexplicably sent him home, he was contagious and in contact with at least half a dozen people directly and a lot more indirectly, yet they're not coming down with anything and they're close to or passing the point of no return. They were exposed to him before these hospital workers were and so far 0 cases when even 1-2 wouldn't have been surprising.

 

A couple days later he went back to the hospital and the issue was recognized. The people who treated him then are now coming down with this.

 

That means this isn't somehow "becoming more easily transmitted". What it means is that the hospital's decontamination procedures either are terrible or aren't being followed, which is something I've read a number of medical reporters discussing this week anyway. They exposed themselves to concentrated doses of his body fluids somehow; with just a guess, I'd bet it was while removing protective equipment that wasn't fully disinfected because there's lax enforcement of those guidelines anyway.

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QUOTE (Y2HH @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 05:07 PM)
There are instances where local control is a good idea and instances where it isn't. Can't we stop the partisan bulls*** for one minute and have a discussion that can acknowledge that there are pros and cons to every problem we face? You of all people know better as a scientist.

Evidently we can't. I'm more or less pointing out to all these excuses. How about people cut the excuses and deal with the reality of the situation. And if we can't handle this, then what are we going to do when something much more serious comes about. We need to learn our lessons now. That doesn't mean overspend and throw money at a problem either.

 

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 06:07 AM)
I'm not defending the hospital one bit. I've been saying they f***ed up from basically the beginning. Where did you get that?

 

I'm saying "it's not spreading in any unusual way and there's no reason for this silly panic".

People should be losing jobs over this and given there was a positive outbreak and the hospital screwed up, it also blows my mind how long it took the CDC or some other agency to take over from local admin in regards to this. The reality is each and every individual hospital is not going to be experts (or at least I presume they aren't) on these sort of items. They should be prepared. That doesn't mean you throw hundreds of billions at a problem either. There are plenty of other ways to solve things.

 

Simpleton example, I could give 10 different people 1 million dollars and 8 or 9 of them would probably end up losing it all.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 11:09 AM)
People should be losing jobs over this and given there was a positive outbreak and the hospital screwed up, it also blows my mind how long it took the CDC or some other agency to take over from local admin in regards to this. The reality is each and every individual hospital is not going to be experts (or at least I presume they aren't) on these sort of items. They should be prepared. That doesn't mean you throw hundreds of billions at a problem either. There are plenty of other ways to solve things.

 

Simpleton example, I could give 10 different people 1 million dollars and 8 or 9 of them would probably end up losing it all.

I wouldn't disagree that people at the hospital should lose their jobs, but this is a problem not just at this hospital but at many. There's no authority anywhere for the government to monitor hospital disinfection protocols and I'm betting you'd be surprised at how weak the hazardous waste regulations are...but you'd only be surprised by those things now that its become a problem.

 

This hospital's lax disinfection procedures aren't abnormal, but we have no authority as a country to make them happen better, and we certainly have no money to do so.

 

We've slashed literally billions of dollars nationwide from public health and emergency response over the last half decade, it was one of the first items on the chopping block when the financial disaster hit, and budgets for health science research have been falling for longer than that.

 

Why you'd give 8 or 9 people money randomly instead of just not laying off people working in these areas I'm a bit confused by.

 

I should also add, the World Health organization, point organization for fighting this in Africa, has had its budget cut by >10% over the past couple years as well, leading to >50% cuts in their emergency response funding, because that's where these kind of cuts fall. But no one will be fired for slashing those budgets.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 08:22 AM)
I wouldn't disagree that people at the hospital should lose their jobs, but this is a problem not just at this hospital but at many. There's no authority anywhere for the government to monitor hospital disinfection protocols and I'm betting you'd be surprised at how weak the hazardous waste regulations are...but you'd only be surprised by those things now that its become a problem.

 

This hospital's lax disinfection procedures aren't abnormal, but we have no authority as a country to make them happen better, and we certainly have no money to do so.

 

We've slashed literally billions of dollars nationwide from public health and emergency response over the last half decade, it was one of the first items on the chopping block when the financial disaster hit, and budgets for health science research have been falling for longer than that.

 

Why you'd give 8 or 9 people money randomly instead of just not laying off people working in these areas I'm a bit confused by.

My point on the last scenario had nothing to do with the hospital but the simple point that money isn't always the solution. More or less, it might be the people in charge and what it is being spent on, how it is being spent, etc. And all you ever seem to do is get into this political bs. Emergency response, etc. I'm not saying government has to regulate it but procedures should be in place, programs should exist, etc. This is a concept that ultimately impacts our overall national stability. The ability for us to get through a disaster is key just like any good strong company would have strong disaster recovery procedures, etc (and if they don't, they aren't a good strong company).

 

You want to sit and cry and point fingers at the past, how about focus on the future and react and work to solve a problem. If people did more of that, we'd be far better off anyway..

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What petty crap:

You want to sit and cry and point fingers at the past, how about focus on the future and react and work to solve a problem. If people did more of that, we'd be far better off anyway..

 

I'd argue that the fact that Balta among others fights for this stuff daily so that when we hit the crisis we are prepared rather than just getting to a crisis and suddenly starting from zero is exactly what the type of behavior you are proposing. Instead many on this site very much subscribe to the "lol government spends money on volcano eruption monitoring" and then when a volcano hits "why were we not prepared? Fire everyone!".

 

The CDC is working with Doctors without borders for help with containment procedure, and procedures will continue to evolve. There are currently 2 cases, and we will see where we are at in another 3 weeks.

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So I just got sick for the first time in a long time...and of course the idea of ebola crossed my mind since I actually live fairly close to Dallas.

 

Thankfully it's just the flu.

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QUOTE (Knuckles @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 10:11 PM)
I live about 15 minutes from Dallas, maybe this is a stupid question but should I be worried?

 

 

 

 

Um, no. Be prudent, not worried.

 

I work with people that are in from all over the world this week, and I am going to Europe in a week in a half. You can't stop living. Just be aware of your surroundings, and be prepared that there's some sick folks who need help, not shunned, every step of the way.

 

 

P.S. I work 2 minutes from DFW Airport. Big deal. I work with people who live near the neighborhoods effected. Big deal. Again, just be prudent and aware, not worried.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In all reality, the flu will still kill more people this year than ebola in the US. Car crashes will kill more still.

 

The nurses and doctors trying to keep these patients healthy are taking risks and are heroes. They need to be very careful and put themselves at risk.

 

You do not.

 

It turns out the dallas hospital did not even start using hazmat suits until day 3 of Duncan's diagnosis.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 08:20 AM)
In all reality, the flu will still kill more people this year than ebola in the US. Car crashes will kill more still.

 

The nurses and doctors trying to keep these patients healthy are taking risks and are heroes. They need to be very careful and put themselves at risk.

 

You do not.

 

It turns out the dallas hospital did not even start using hazmat suits until day 3 of Duncan's diagnosis.

I am horrified by the media coverage of this, but not surprised.

 

We have two people who got it in the U.S. and they directly were involved in the care of a patient who brought it in from another country and now it looks like hospital and CDC are admitting proper protocols weren’t in place.

 

I’m not saying these aren’t stories that shouldn’t be covered, but the tragedy that is going on with Ebola in Africa is horrific, and that’s getting barely any coverage.

 

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QUOTE (Knuckles @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 11:11 PM)
I live about 15 minutes from Dallas, maybe this is a stupid question but should I be worried?

You might want to be worried about the lack of competent infection response procedures at a major local medical center more than anything else. This bug gives a flashing neon sign saying "hey this hospital is completely screwing up these several hugely important things".

 

If they can screw this up, then they're absolutely set up to be a source of transmission for a variety of other diseases, including to patients who are visiting for other things. Not just this bug, but the kinds of things that cause post-surgery infections and so on.

 

That's probably a statement that could go for many major medical centers around the country, FWIW.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 03:35 PM)
You might want to be worried about the lack of competent infection response procedures at a major local medical center more than anything else. This bug gives a flashing neon sign saying "hey this hospital is completely screwing up these several hugely important things".

 

If they can screw this up, then they're absolutely set up to be a source of transmission for a variety of other diseases, including to patients who are visiting for other things. Not just this bug, but the kinds of things that cause post-surgery infections and so on.

 

That's probably a statement that could go for many major medical centers around the country, FWIW.

 

Perhaps this will cause a kick for hospitals to get their act together on their huge number of MRSA infections.

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QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 02:47 PM)
I am horrified by the media coverage of this, but not surprised.

 

We have two people who got it in the U.S. and they directly were involved in the care of a patient who brought it in from another country and now it looks like hospital and CDC are admitting proper protocols weren’t in place.

 

I’m not saying these aren’t stories that shouldn’t be covered, but the tragedy that is going on with Ebola in Africa is horrific, and that’s getting barely any coverage.

 

Excellent post!!

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QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 08:54 AM)
Um, no. Be prudent, not worried.

 

As one great philosopher once said, "Worry is the cancer of life." Try not to ever worry about things. Be happy.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 07:33 PM)
we need to shut down the Texas borders and stop all air traffic coming out of there.

And since it could be spread by oil, we should cut off those supplies as well.

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QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 09:27 AM)

And since it could be spread by oil, we should cut off those supplies as well.

The rest of the country can do without your supplies at this point.

 

No longer kidding.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:28 AM)
The rest of the country can do without your supplies at this point.

 

No longer kidding.

 

But not their refining.

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