oldsox Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Here's an old article on White Sox of 20+ years ago. http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/2/24/4022...s-what-happened Edited October 8, 2014 by oldsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Damn that's a depressing read. Say what you will about Kenny, but if the GM version of him had been around in the 1990s, he would have pulled out all stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I had forgotten about some of the Bevington era flaws. That would be an interesting thread all by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:33 AM) Damn that's a depressing read. Say what you will about Kenny, but if the GM version of him had been around in the 1990s, he would have pulled out all stops. Schueler was pretty good for a while. Lamont getting fired was unfair. Bevington, there really isn't an excuse, but he was signing the correct guys and until he traded McDowell, he was making really good moves. After the strike, he got ultra conservative. Signing Clemens would have helped, but would really be tainted. The White Flag trade eventually helped the team. I know JR felt the 2000 division crown was vindication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:45 AM) I had forgotten about some of the Bevington era flaws. That would be an interesting thread all by itself. Yes. The signaling to the bullpen with no one warming up was a classic that has never been forgotten, but I can't believe I forgot about his arguing a call that actually went the White Sox way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 My favorite part of this entire article (and I haven't read through it all): Once the 1994 season was canceled in September, it was obvious that McDowell was not going to be re-signed for 1995. On Dec. 15, 1994, McDowell was traded to the Yankees. As the Tribune reported at the time: "Giving up on the possibility of signing the free-agent pitcher, the Sox traded McDowell for left-hander Keith Heberling, 22, who spent last season at Class A Tampa and Double-A Albany. There were no clues as to the identity of the third player in the deal, although a report out of New York mentioned Yankee slugger Danny Tartabull. Tartabull, however, carries a $5-million annual salary, a price the Sox likely would find unattractive." The PTBNL was Lyle Mouton. Because the answer is always Lyle Mouton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think Schueler just ended up staying in place while the MLB GM game passed him by. He was very into homegrown talent and not trading assets, which was the way things were done when he started. But he never really adapted to the way the game changed, until(ironically) the White Flag trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 09:52 AM) I think Schueler just ended up staying in place while the MLB GM game passed him by. He was very into homegrown talent and not trading assets, which was the way things were done when he started. But he never really adapted to the way the game changed, until(ironically) the White Flag trade. After looking through the article...one thing that stood out to me is that the steroid era is not discussed. That's a big part of this too. Roger Clemens in 1997 was a guy in his mid 30s coming off 2 of the worst seasons of his career who relied heavily on his fastball that was probably starting to betray him. There are plenty of ways that signing him could have gone badly had you not predicted that he'd find a guy to stick needles in his ass. That article also focuses heavily on "lineup protection" when there have been convincing arguments here that its more important just because you drive in the guy who is on base, not in the lineup protection part. And this is a totally different article if the Sox make a playoff run in 1994. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:59 AM) After looking through the article...one thing that stood out to me is that the steroid era is not discussed. That's a big part of this too. Roger Clemens in 1997 was a guy in his mid 30s coming off 2 of the worst seasons of his career who relied heavily on his fastball that was probably starting to betray him. There are plenty of ways that signing him could have gone badly had you not predicted that he'd find a guy to stick needles in his ass. That article also focuses heavily on "lineup protection" when there have been convincing arguments here that its more important just because you drive in the guy who is on base, not in the lineup protection part. And this is a totally different article if the Sox make a playoff run in 1994. Which, sadly, was stopped because of their own owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) Which, sadly, was stopped because of their own owner. The 1994 Expos/1994 White Sox could have been a world series for the ages. Hell, the Expos might still write articles saying "If there hadn't been a strike we could still have a team". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I remember being so optimistic heading into that decade. I remember discussing with my buddies how the Sox were set up to be "the team of the 90's." (sigh). On the bright side, the Sox only won 1 less WS that decade than the Atlanta Braves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) My favorite part of this entire article (and I haven't read through it all): Because the answer is always Lyle Mouton. And all of Soxtalk's people said AMEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Also from in the article... I am pretty sure the arb hearings with McDowell were the last ones that the Sox have been in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Funny thing I saw in this article - Bevington...allowed Albert Belle to have a traveling entourage but then kicked Ozzie Guillen's kids out of the clubhouse. Maybe he wasn't ALL bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Never understood the firing of himes. The schueler era was bad. All he did was play golf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 And somehow the man at the very top escapes unscathed in this article.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:45 AM) Schueler was pretty good for a while. Lamont getting fired was unfair. Bevington, there really isn't an excuse, but he was signing the correct guys and until he traded McDowell, he was making really good moves. After the strike, he got ultra conservative. Signing Clemens would have helped, but would really be tainted. The White Flag trade eventually helped the team. I know JR felt the 2000 division crown was vindication. 2 bullpen pitchers from white flag on that team. At least as big a factor was Schueler getting Eldred and Valentin on this team right before the season, as well as getting Navarro OFF the team. (perhaps the best trade he ever made). White flag was needed, but was really poorly executed by Schueler. At the least, they should have dealt with Boston. Sox came into the season completely unprepared to play in 1995; similar to 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 11:20 AM) Funny thing I saw in this article - Bevington...allowed Albert Belle to have a traveling entourage but then kicked Ozzie Guillen's kids out of the clubhouse. Maybe he wasn't ALL bad. I never understood why other players would allow one guy to have an entourage hanging around the clubhouse, if that is indeed what went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Because Albert was a f***ing beast. Didn't he hit like 75 HR's over a 162 game stretch? Something crazy like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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