UNC Academic Scandal

[southsider2k5]

When your coach/administration "suggests" a class and they have the power to drop you from the team and cost you your scholarship at any moment, it's not just a "suggestion"

 

BS. If you get drummed out, what is the first thing you would put out on social media? THEY TRIED ME TO GET A FAKE CLASS AND I SAID NO SO THEY KICKED ME OUT... At that point everything gets blown up. That is the biggest risk to the entire set up. No coach/administration is that stupid.

[StrangeSox]

BS. If you get drummed out, what is the first thing you would put out on social media? THEY TRIED ME TO GET A FAKE CLASS AND I SAID NO SO THEY KICKED ME OUT... At that point everything gets blown up. That is the biggest risk to the entire set up. No coach/administration is that stupid.

We're talking about a 20-year program here, so social media isn't relevant for a lot of it.

 

Either way, it's just another glaring example of how much "student" there is in "student-athlete"

[whitesoxfan99]

When your coach/administration "suggests" a class and they have the power to drop you from the team and cost you your scholarship at any moment, it's not just a "suggestion"

 

Depends on the player. Rashad McCants was definitely involved in this and there is not a f***ing chance Roy Williams would have kicked him off the team if McCants said he wouldn't take one of these classes. Of course based no his purported transcript floating around McCants may not have been able to stay eligible without these classes.

[Jenksismyhero]

We're talking about a 20-year program here, so social media isn't relevant for a lot of it.

 

Either way, it's just another glaring example of how much "student" there is in "student-athlete"

 

99% of student athletes are, in fact, students first and won't have jobs in sports after they're done playing.

[southsider2k5]

We're talking about a 20-year program here, so social media isn't relevant for a lot of it.

 

Either way, it's just another glaring example of how much "student" there is in "student-athlete"

 

So substitute that for a call to the NCAA from a pissed off kid or parent.

[StrangeSox]

99% of student athletes are, in fact, students first and won't have jobs in sports after they're done playing.

yeah, fair point, that argument is more about the men's bb and football programs than say wrestling or swimming, but for all I know they could have similar issues.

[RockRaines]

yeah, fair point, that argument is more about the men's bb and football programs than say wrestling or swimming, but for all I know they could have similar issues.

Probably a few in other sports needed to stay eligible so they glommed onto the bball/football easy street.

[greg775]

Either way, it's just another glaring example of how much "student" there is in "student-athlete"

 

Very true. I'm guessing most football/basketball powerhouses have it down to a science. They have easy majors (Afr American Studies, Communications). They have friendly wink wink tutors. They have online courses. It's all a machine now.

The real laugher is spring semester when the one and dones or two and dones turn pro. They take off a good month and a half to two months before the end of the semester to go work out in Vegas and yet the schools are not concerned about losing points to the APR.

 

Somehow they've taken care of their academic responsibilities with six weeks left in the semester and they're free to go get ready for the draft. yeah right. If a normal student tried that, I'm sure it would work out.

 

If a football player or bball player wants to major in a real field, however, like pre med, or engineering or architecture, obviously it's a different ballgame. Those kids I'd think can't be put through the mill of gift courses.

 

I will say this, though, as far as the North Carolina situation? Some athletes and non athletes taking a gift class or two to save their grades?

It's not right, but I did the same thing in college a few times because of my frat. An upperclassman steered me to an advanced Western Civ class in which the nutty professor had no papers, no tests, no classroom discussion. Everybody got an A. And I took him for Western Civ II and it was the same deal. Meanwhile, the real Western Civ classes were a BEAR to pass. No lie there were about 15 books you had to read and discuss and here I was with this class in which I did absolutely no work.

I also took an honors biology course in which my frat had all the papers and tests and I basically did nothing. I do believe Roy Williams was right in his quote yesterday that he trusted that the college had legitimate courses. My school had this nutty Western Civ teacher and a few lucky students took advantage of him giving everybody As for no work.

 

Now did I have other courses in which I worked my ass off? Sure. But I took some easy gifts, too. Did I do something wrong? Yes. But I also worked 20 hours a week and had 15 hours of difficult classes.

 

Let's face it. The situation at Carolina happens at a lot of places. I'd say for many football and bball players, the term student-athlete is definitely a sham. I'd love to know the inner workings of all this. I'm sure the Carolina situation gives us a glimpse.

Edited October 23, 2014 by greg775

[Harry Chappas]

Mens college football and basketball need to be taken as a whole other entity when compared to NCAA athletics. Curricula are created for them and if other students benefit great.

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

Mens college football and basketball need to be taken as a whole other entity when compared to NCAA athletics. Curricula are created for them and if other students benefit great.

 

Good way to put it, Harry.

[southsider2k5]

Very true. I'm guessing most football/basketball powerhouses have it down to a science. They have easy majors (Afr American Studies, Communications). They have friendly wink wink tutors. They have online courses. It's all a machine now.

The real laugher is spring semester when the one and dones or two and dones turn pro. They take off a good month and a half to two months before the end of the semester to go work out in Vegas and yet the schools are not concerned about losing points to the APR.

 

Somehow they've taken care of their academic responsibilities with six weeks left in the semester and they're free to go get ready for the draft. yeah right. If a normal student tried that, I'm sure it would work out.

 

If a football player or bball player wants to major in a real field, however, like pre med, or engineering or architecture, obviously it's a different ballgame. Those kids I'd think can't be put through the mill of gift courses.

 

I will say this, though, as far as the North Carolina situation? Some athletes and non athletes taking a gift class or two to save their grades?

It's not right, but I did the same thing in college a few times because of my frat. An upperclassman steered me to an advanced Western Civ class in which the nutty professor had no papers, no tests, no classroom discussion. Everybody got an A. And I took him for Western Civ II and it was the same deal. Meanwhile, the real Western Civ classes were a BEAR to pass. I also took an honors biology course in which my frat had all the papers and tests and I basically did nothing.

Now did I have other courses in which I worked my ass off? Sure. But I took some easy gifts, too. Did I do something wrong? Yes. But I also worked 20 hours a week and had 15 hours of difficult classes.

 

Let's face it. The situation at Carolina happens at a lot of places. I'd say for many football and bball players, the term student-athlete is definitely a sham. I'd love to know the inner workings of all this. I'm sure the Carolina situation gives us a glimpse.

 

 

For shame greg. For shame.

[greg775]

For shame greg. For shame.

 

Thing is, in my case, I'm a college freshman and I go to Western Civ class the first day my freshman year and I have 15 books to read and the teacher assistant tells us about classroom discussion and papers and tests and I come back and complain to my upperclass roommate in the frat.

 

He gets the nutty professor on the phone, gets me in the same class where there are no books, no tests, no papers. The nutty professor is some famous guy who gives Western Civ lectures and all you have to do is show up and you get an A. I had no interest in Western Civ, had other difficult classes and a 20-hour a week parttime job. The upperclass frat guy goes with me to drop the tough class, tells me to trust him, and indeed the nutty professor gives me an A and all we had to do all semester was show up and listen to him speak for two hours at a time.

 

He tells the class he's teaching Western Civ II and I quickly enroll in that as well and get another A and don't even buy the books. Was I wrong in accepting these two, easy A's? It's the university's fault for employing this famous guy to teach advanced Western Civ. I just took advantage.

 

Should my diploma be discarded? other kids were in the class, too.

Edited October 23, 2014 by greg775

[RockRaines]

Its not just big time program, at Miami U our coach's wife taught a special course for players.

[greg775]

Its not just big time program, at Miami U our coach's wife taught a special course for players.

 

I think this all started at Michigan back in the late 80s. I believe they had an easy major for basketball and football players, other coaches noticed, got jealous and the ones on solid ground at their own schools pushed for the same. Schools finally started beefing up "academic support" departments. Those schools with "huge" academic support departments are probably the ones who the NCAA should red flag the most.

Big time football and basketball ... cmon, many of the stars either don't want to do any coursework or frankly aren't able to pass coursework.

 

The fact colleges allow "one and done" students at all shows what a sham the notion of "student-athlete" can be in the major sports. You are not going to make any real progress toward a degree in one year and you are majoring in being eligible for one season.

Edited October 23, 2014 by greg775

[cabiness42]

Its not just big time program, at Miami U our coach's wife taught a special course for players.

 

When I was at ND, there was only one course that might fall into that category. The lowest course offered university-wide to fulfill the freshman math requirement was the equivalent of an 11th-12th grade trigonometry-precalc class. Students could get exceptions based on their HS transcripts to take a college algebra class. In theory the exception was open to any student, but in practice the only people who got approved for that class were scholarship athletes and the children of rich donors. Other than that, there were no classes that contained only athletes. I had six different football players as well as several athletes in other sports in my various writing/theology/philosophy classes and none of them were easy.

 

There were definitely majors and classes that were softer than others (though I never heard of any to the extent of greg's class), but they were open to every student.

[Dick Allen]

I think this all started at Michigan back in the late 80s. I believe they had an easy major for basketball and football players, other coaches noticed, got jealous and the ones on solid ground at their own schools pushed for the same. Schools finally started beefing up "academic support" departments. Those schools with "huge" academic support departments are probably the ones who the NCAA should red flag the most.

Big time football and basketball ... cmon, many of the stars either don't want to do any coursework or frankly aren't able to pass coursework.

 

The fact colleges allow "one and done" students at all shows what a sham the notion of "student-athlete" can be in the major sports. You are not going to make any real progress toward a degree in one year and you are majoring in being eligible for one season.

Listen to some of these dopes who have been in college for 4 or 5 years try to put a sentence together. That is blatant proof they have been getting by with some BS classes or someone else doing the work. It is amazing how rare it is for a star player who really needed strings pulled to get out of high school has no problem staying eligible in college, and more specifically a real good academic college. I have always felt letting these guys actually graduate without really earning it cheapens the degree for all graduates.

 

And as long as there have been boosters, your better players haven't had to worry about spending money during their eligibility.

 

 

[greg775]

Listen to some of these dopes who have been in college for 4 or 5 years try to put a sentence together. That is blatant proof they have been getting by with some BS classes or someone else doing the work. It is amazing how rare it is for a star player who really needed strings pulled to get out of high school has no problem staying eligible in college, and more specifically a real good academic college. I have always felt letting these guys actually graduate without really earning it cheapens the degree for all graduates.

 

And as long as there have been boosters, your better players haven't had to worry about spending money during their eligibility.

 

As usual, Dick Allen is spot on.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

NCAA should throw the book at UNC

 

This is from a beat writer in Hartford, so a lot of this is how it relates to UConn, but he makes good points. The NCAA needs to throw the hammer down on this one

[greg775]

NCAA should throw the book at UNC

 

This is from a beat writer in Hartford, so a lot of this is how it relates to UConn, but he makes good points. The NCAA needs to throw the hammer down on this one

 

You have an office assistant basically asking what a player needs on a paper to be eligible. If the player needed a D, she gave him a C- or D. Blatant academic fraud.

North Carolina for years has prided itself on being one of the top state universities in the country. If the NCAA doesn't level UNC how can it level anybody else again? I think they should see if any players on the UNC national title team would have been ineligible without the unearned grades from that renegade instructor. If so, the title should be stripped and the NCAA should demand UNC take down the banner. If UNC refuses, they should say, "fine, you now get the death penalty."

[Kyyle23]

[cabiness42]

Throw the book at them. And by book, I mean a real book, not the kind of book UNC athletes read.