Dodgers aggressively pursuing Alexei

[LDF]

They spent a moderate $25 mill for 2 years, without giving up a draft choice, to get some competence at the DH and to give Abreu some much needed relief playing 1B. This team won 73 games last year. They'll be ready when some of these young players are ready to go. They aren't yet and you can't win without them.

 

again i disagree, if this was the last week of spring training and this is the best

the sox did to improve the team, then i will wholehearted agree with you.

 

this is not the case, the sox have not finish addressing the so call holes.

[LDF]

So they were flawed 3 or 4 years when they were in Alexei's favor too right? Or just when you choose to disagree with them?

 

or when you are trying to find a way to justify your own thoughts.

 

how much proof is needed for you to say you were WRONG.

[TheFutureIsNear]

you were laughing at anyone who said that he was up for the award. the proof is there.

if you have a problem with it, take up with the committee for that award.

 

No, as I already said I was laughing at anyone who thinks being a finalist for the GG means anything.

[LDF]

No, as I already said I was laughing at anyone who thinks being a finalist for the GG means anything.

 

then why is there alot of emphasis placed on the GG award?

[SoxAce]

It's much easier to replace a LF spot than a SS spot. SS is the most important position on the field and the hardest to replace and find good talent for. LF is one of the easiest positions to replace. It's like trading your QB to acquire a good FB.

I really wish I could find Kal or qwerty's post about the SS versus CF debate.

[TheFutureIsNear]

then why is there alot of emphasis placed on the GG award?

 

By who? It's common knowledge the award is a joke. Derek Jeter won 5 at the same position.

[LDF]

I really wish I could find Kal or qwerty's post about the SS versus CF debate.

 

if you are mentioning it, it must be a good one.

 

care to give a brief synopsis of it.

[LDF]

By who? It's common knowledge the award is a joke. Derek Jeter won 5 at the same position.

 

i normally don't say this, but show me an article of what you are saying.

 

lastly if it is a joke, then why do mlb still have it??

 

[cabiness42]

i normally don't say this, but show me an article of what you are saying.

 

lastly if it is a joke, then why do mlb still have it??

 

MLB does not give out the award, Rawlings does. Jeter was barely good enough defensively in his prime to win one gg award but kept winning it just because he's Derek Jeter, so yet, the award is mostly a joke.

 

However, in the past couple years, the award does seem to be going to deserving players for the most part.

 

I know advanced metrics have been down on Alexei the past couple years, but there is an awful lot of year to year variance in the defensive metrics of a lot of players so I think we are putting too much weight on them.

 

Alexei is in the top third of MLB shortstops both offensively and defensively and signed to a contract that is well below what he would get on the open market, so any trade in which the Sox would consider giving him up would have to be very one-sided, which as I've said before I doubt any team is willing to do despite the shortage of good shortstops available via free agency or trade.

[GreenSox]

again i disagree, if this was the last week of spring training and this is the best

the sox did to improve the team, then i will wholehearted agree with you.

 

this is not the case, the sox have not finish addressing the so call holes.

Again, I don't believe this will be the last move. But I don't think they'll make moves as if it is a a 2 year window either. (which is all the Sox will have if they keep Alexei, trade top prospects for Jay Bruce, various rents, etc. as people on here suggest).

This team won 73 games, and it's not like you can point to a bunch of injuries or inexplicably down years. These short term moves to power up the team at the cost of prospects will put the Sox in 85 win purgatory.

I hope they make an aggressive move to get the young outfielder in here (by trading Alexei). I hope they sign a moderate starter (like Hammel) and pick up another reliever to get this team to .500. And then I'll wait a season, maybe 2, for the minor league pitching to get ready and hopefully Anderson.

[Balta1701]

Again, I don't believe this will be the last move. But I don't think they'll make moves as if it is a a 2 year window either. (which is all the Sox will have if they keep Alexei, trade top prospects for Jay Bruce, various rents, etc. as people on here suggest).

This team won 73 games, and it's not like you can point to a bunch of injuries or inexplicably down years. These short term moves to power up the team at the cost of prospects will put the Sox in 85 win purgatory.

I hope they make an aggressive move to get the young outfielder in here (by trading Alexei). I hope they sign a moderate starter (like Hammel) and pick up another reliever to get this team to .500. And then I'll wait a season, maybe 2, for the minor league pitching to get ready and hopefully Anderson.

See, keeping Alexei doesn't make this a "2 year window" since it's entirely possible that Alexei could leave as a FA and the White Sox would have a highly touted shortstop prospect ready to step in for him. Anderson's starting AA this year, so if he were to take over the role in 2017, that would actually be taking their time with him. If the team around him was good enough, you could probably be competitive with a rookie shortstop and be pretty happy about it.

 

Alexei's almost on the perfect path for Anderson to take over him after genuinely trying to take the division the next 2 years.

[iamshack]

I could have sworn someone on Soxtalk made an argument that Alexeis defensive statistics and zone ratings are skewed negatively because he gets to a lot of balls that he really shouldnt, and then cant make the play because they are such incredibly difficult plays.

 

Or, i could be having a bad Hawk flashback

That would actually negatively effect his traditional defensive statistics, like errors.

 

UZR should reflect positively on Alexei for getting to more balls.

[Eminor3rd]

So they were flawed 3 or 4 years when they were in Alexei's favor too right? Or just when you choose to disagree with them?

 

 

Any stat that said Alexei was mediocre last year was crap.

 

I think you guys are both wrong.

 

- Having a -0.7 UZR is the same thing as having a zero UZR, which means average, which MIGHT be your definition of "mediocre," but is really just that it doesn't hurt you or help you.

- The public, for some reason, tends to act as if defense is a remarkably consistent skill where guys are constantly playing at their exact true talents, whereas everyone accepts that offense is streaky. There is no evidence, however, to suggest this is the case.

- The public assumes that UZR/DRS are inaccurate without multi-year samples, when the truth is that they are just not PREDICTIVE without multi-year samples, which is very different.

 

That Alexei had a "mediocre" season defensively does not make him a true-talent "mediocre" defender, just as the fact that he was previously elite does not mean that he is currently elite. Probably his age has slowed him a bit, but probably it did not turn him from high-end to below average in the span of one season. He is most likely a tick above average and just didn't have a great season. Both the eyeball test AND the sabermetrics point to this conclusion.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[LDF]

Again, I don't believe this will be the last move. But I don't think they'll make moves as if it is a a 2 year window either. (which is all the Sox will have if they keep Alexei, trade top prospects for Jay Bruce, various rents, etc. as people on here suggest).

This team won 73 games, and it's not like you can point to a bunch of injuries or inexplicably down years. These short term moves to power up the team at the cost of prospects will put the Sox in 85 win purgatory.

I hope they make an aggressive move to get the young outfielder in here (by trading Alexei). I hope they sign a moderate starter (like Hammel) and pick up another reliever to get this team to .500. And then I'll wait a season, maybe 2, for the minor league pitching to get ready and hopefully Anderson.

i disagree with some and i can truly agree with the others..

 

the one part i disagree with is the bolded. people can point to the problem, that problem was

the pitching. outside the top 2 pitchers, the others in the rotation was pitiful. that damage was

done by the time the sox somewhat address it. the sox was able to get some semblance of pitching

later. just improving the pitching alone will add more wins.

 

by reaching and getting players to fill the holes whether it is 1 or 2 yr deals, the sox by this, will be

staggering themselves to add players thru natural attrition. also whether to further address it via a trade, then so be it.

 

finally the sox can get a sp, rp and lf and this team will be alot better than last yr.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I think you guys are both wrong.

 

- Having a -0.7 UZR is the same thing as having a zero UZR, which means average, which MIGHT be your definition of "mediocre," but is really just that it doesn't hurt you or help you.

- The public, for some reason, tends to act as if defense is a remarkably consistent skill where guys are constantly playing at their exact true talents, whereas everyone accepts that offense is streaky. There is no evidence, however, to suggest this is the case.

- The public assumes that UZR/DRS are inaccurate without multi-year samples, when the truth is that they are just not PREDICTIVE without multi-year samples, which is very different.

 

That Alexei had a "mediocre" season defensively does not make him a true-talent "mediocre" defender, just as the fact that he was previously elite does not mean that he is currently elite. Probably his age has slowed him a bit, but probably it did not turn him from high-end to below average in the span of one season. He is most likely a tick above average and just didn't have a great season. Both the eyeball test AND the sabermetrics point to this conclusion.

 

Of course it's his age. Just 3 or 4 years ago Alexei was a borderline elite SS....me or anyone else shouldn't be denying that. But as all athletes who get into their 30's he's declining. His RZR (revised zone rating) is pretty damming of this. He went from exceptional in 2012 (.837) to pretty poor (.730) this past year. Maybe it was an anomaly, but betting on a soon to be 34 year old SS to turn his D around is a pretty poor bet in my opinion.

[oldsox]

then why is there alot of emphasis placed on the GG award?

It gives the media something to talk about

[LDF]

It gives the media something to talk about

 

yeah i am for that as well. i enjoyed the debate.

[GGajewski18]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 3m3 minutes ago

the very reliable @susanslusser says the a's are working on something significant, tho. they need SS, 2B, bats.

 

Alexei?

[LDF]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 3m3 minutes ago

the very reliable @susanslusser says the a's are working on something significant, tho. they need SS, 2B, bats.

 

Alexei?

 

well earlier a post, there was a list of teams that were interested.

 

the A's were one of them, but not for a 1 yr rental.

[GreenSox]

Oakland doesn't have the young talent that I'd prefer.

Maybe a move for Donaldson.

If Williams is involved, it would be Gillaspie, Montas and another prospect who I wouldn't want to trade for Donaldson.

[GGajewski18]

They do have Sonny Gray, Jarrod Parker and AJ Griffin, although the latter two coming off TJ.

 

I'd love to buy low on Parker, I think he would be a great addition.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Welp Donaldson gone for Brett Lawrie and others.

[GreenSox]

had the Donaldson part right. Wonder who the "others" are.

Lawrie's a good ballplayer but he's never put in a full season.

[GGajewski18]

had the Donaldson part right. Wonder who the "others" are.

Lawrie's a good ballplayer but he's never put in a full season.

 

3B Brett Lawrie, RHP Kendall Graveman, LHP Sean Nolin and SS Franklin Barretto for Donaldson is the full deal.

Edited November 29, 2014 by SoxPride18

[Eminor3rd]

Of course it's his age. Just 3 or 4 years ago Alexei was a borderline elite SS....me or anyone else shouldn't be denying that. But as all athletes who get into their 30's he's declining. His RZR (revised zone rating) is pretty damming of this. He went from exceptional in 2012 (.837) to pretty poor (.730) this past year. Maybe it was an anomaly, but betting on a soon to be 34 year old SS to turn his D around is a pretty poor bet in my opinion.

 

The biggest change was the range factor, at least in UZR. Do you really believe he lost 15 runs worth of defensive range over the course of 12 months?

 

I think your point is generally correct -- he's declining. But it's not likely that he's already "bad."

 

I mean, I'm down with trading him. I was creating threads about it LAST offseason.