Dodgers aggressively pursuing Alexei

[Jake]

That Donaldson move is a head-scratcher.

[TheFutureIsNear]

That Donaldson move is a head-scratcher.

 

From what I'm reading Barreto is a very nice prospect....only 18 and hit very well in low A already. Donaldson is super 2 eligible and will start to get expensive after this year so I can kinda see why they would look to move him. Though his contract is still very reasonable so I probably would have let him play out another year to see if he can come closer to his 2013 #'s to maximize his value.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

From what I'm reading Barreto is a very nice prospect....only 18 and hit very well in low A already. Donaldson is super 2 eligible and will start to get expensive after this year so I can kinda see why they would look to move him. Though his contract is still very reasonable so I probably would have let him play out another year to see if he can come closer to his 2013 #'s to maximize his value.

 

The surprising part is the move to sign Butler, then the opposite side of the spectrum by trading Donaldson. It's the equivalent of those Sox fans who want the Sox to trade Alexei after we signed LaRoche.

[GGajewski18]

The surprising part is the move to sign Butler, then the opposite side of the spectrum by trading Donaldson. It's the equivalent of those Sox fans who want the Sox to trade Alexei after we signed LaRoche.

 

Yeah real odd, but they do get Lawrie back who could be a good piece and cost effective.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yeah real odd, but they do get Lawrie back who could be a good piece and cost effective.

 

Lawrie could be a decent player if he could stay on the field. Has only played more than 110 games once so far.

[Whisox05]

I think the deal was done based on the fact Donaldson is going to become arbitration eligible in 2015 and is going to get very expensive very quick. Lawrie is in the same area that he is arbitration eligible too in 2015 but will not likely cost as much since he hasn't produced as well or stayed healthy.

[GreenSox]

The surprising part is the move to sign Butler, then the opposite side of the spectrum by trading Donaldson. It's the equivalent of those Sox fans who want the Sox to trade Alexei after we signed LaRoche.

Right

Keep the team competitive with short term no-comp free agents while you retool. It's a Cubs/Royals/Astros/Pirates aversion move for a big rebuild. Or avoid perpetual 85 win purgatory for a decent team.

Butler didn't cost a thing in terms of talent Now you can trade a hitter you do have for other "things"

Edited November 29, 2014 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

I think the deal was done based on the fact Donaldson is going to become arbitration eligible in 2015 and is going to get very expensive very quick. Lawrie is in the same area that he is arbitration eligible too in 2015 but will not likely cost as much since he hasn't produced as well or stayed healthy.

Just think about this argument though.

 

"We're giving up a year of team control and saving money by trading our better players for worse players".

 

Not exactly a strong tactic there.

[Kyyle23]

Just think about this argument though.

 

"We're giving up a year of team control and saving money by trading our better players for worse players".

 

Not exactly a strong tactic there.

 

I wouldn't say "worse" players, I would say "unproven".

 

Look at Donaldson, he was the Single A throw-in to the Harden trade, and was a catcher to boot. Beane believes in this strategy and he has been pretty successful, I would say

[Dick Allen]

Or maybe it is just trying to read the crystal ball. Donaldson was great, but he was down in almost every offensive category from the year before, is getting paid more, and while still was outsatnding, he may be starting to slide. Lawrie is cheaper and younger and if he can stay healthy, a big if, might evenbe better moving forward, plus you get 3 lottery tickets. For the 2014 season it would have been a huge downgrade, but moving forward, maybe not.

 

Donaldson has a career arc that is pretty uncommon. He was virtually nothing until he was 27. Then he became MVP caliber. We have all written off guys who had shown just as much or even more up until that age.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Dick Allen

[GreenSox]

Or maybe it is just trying to read the crystal ball. Donaldson was great, but he was down in almost every offensive category from the year before, is getting paid more, and while still was

 

Donaldson has a career arc that is pretty uncommon. He was virtually nothing until he was 27. Then he became MVP caliber. We have all written off guys who had shown just as much or even more up until that age.

Except the Shark.

There should be no limit to the value of being graced with his presence for just a mere year.

 

And I agree about Donaldson. At an advanced age, he went bad year, great year, good year...what's next?

Edited November 29, 2014 by GreenSox

[GreenSox]

Or maybe it is just trying to read the crystal ball. Donaldson was great, but he was down in almost every offensive category from the year before, is getting paid more, and while still was

 

Donaldson has a career arc that is pretty uncommon. He was virtually nothing until he was 27. Then he became MVP caliber. We have all written off guys who had shown just as much or even more up until that age.

Except the Shark.

There should be no limit to the value of being graced with his presence for just a mere year.

[Balta1701]

All of that stuff could be quite true but go into some details on the argument.

 

They're both first year arb guys next year. Lawrie will be slightly cheaper...because he's done far less. If he starts performing like Donaldson, his salary would catch up in the 2nd year. And if Lawrie starts performing well enough that you'd want to keep him for several years...the A's have given up a year of team control.

 

So the As give up a year of team control on a near MVP caliber guy 4 years away from FA and immediately get worse to bring in a couple "wild cards" as you guys describe them. For a team always financially strapped, giving up a year of team control seems silly.

 

Even if Donaldson was trending down, man I have to think I'd be thrilled if the White Sox gave up a comparable package.

[Dick Allen]

Except the Shark.

There should be no limit to the value of being graced with his presence for just a mere year.

I have never been a fan of his. I also don't think the White Sox line up well player-wise to trade for him. It does seem the White Sox have had a hard on for him for a couple of years, but I think if they want him, wait a year.

[Dick Allen]

All of that stuff could be quite true but go into some details on the argument.

 

They're both first year arb guys next year. Lawrie will be slightly cheaper...because he's done far less. If he starts performing like Donaldson, his salary would catch up in the 2nd year. And if Lawrie starts performing well enough that you'd want to keep him for several years...the A's have given up a year of team control.

 

So the As give up a year of team control on a near MVP caliber guy 4 years away from FA and immediately get worse to bring in a couple "wild cards" as you guys describe them. For a team always financially strapped, giving up a year of team control seems silly.

 

Even if Donaldson was trending down, man I have to think I'd be thrilled if the White Sox gave up a comparable package.

But the way Beane operates, none of these guys are long term A's. The extra year of control isn't as important as the few million in savings and hoping Lawrie can stay healthy, and at least one of the other three becoming a true asset.

 

I don't think anyone would have been upset if the White Sox sent a similar package for Donaldson. But there is a reason Oakland did it. They either think he is going to fall off, Lawrie is ready to explode, or there is something they will be able to do with the extra couple of million they will save.

[GreenSox]

So the As give up a year of team control on a near MVP caliber guy 4 years away from FA and immediately get worse to bring in a couple "wild cards" as you guys describe them. For a team always financially strapped, giving up a year of team control seems silly.

 

Even if Donaldson was trending down, man I have to think I'd be thrilled if the White Sox gave up a comparable package.

They aren't exactly "wild cards". The one wild card will likely be a top 100 prospect in the next rundowns.

The other 2 pitchers are major league ready and both pitched in the majors last year. (one was taught a cutter recently; I guess coop doesn't have that patented). I believe they are of the low-upside type, but the As get a lot of mileage out of these pitchers with 4/5 starter arms. And the As got a major league starting 3B.

 

and as Dick pointed out, Donaldson himself trends over the last 3 years as bad-great-good. Where does he go next?

 

[Balta1701]

They aren't exactly "wild cards". The one wild card will likely be a top 100 prospect in the next rundowns.

The other 2 pitchers are major league ready and both pitched in the majors last year. (one was taught a cutter recently; I guess coop doesn't have that patented). I believe they are of the low-upside type, but the As get a lot of mileage out of these pitchers with 4/5 starter arms. And the As got a major league starting 3B.

 

and as Dick pointed out, Donaldson himself trends over the last 3 years as bad-great-good. Where does he go next?

Even if you have a ton of confidence in your teams ability to scout the right guys, I've got to figure you could do better than "a top 100 prospect in the majors and a couple of low upside type arms" if you're swapping Donaldson for Lawrie.

 

You said Donaldson's year last year was "good", but it still was a >6 fWAR season coming right after a 7 fWAR season. Josh Donaldson's "good" year would have made him the most valuable player on the White Sox. Brett Lawrie has put up

 

The A's give up a year of control and downgrade from a >6 fWAR player to a 2-2.5 fWAR player with injury worries in exchange for 1 top 100 prospect and a couple "low-upside type" arms?

 

That's like Beck, Bassitt, Gillaspie, and maybe someone like Webb or something like that from the White Sox. A guy who fills the 3b spot, doesn't provide a lot of wins, and a couple of decent but not great arms with big league experience. Maybe Danish has to slot into one of those pitchers spots instead since Gillaspie is a step down from Lawrie even counting the injuries, but you can't tell me you wouldn't do a deal along those lines. I'd jump at that.

[LittleHurt05]

What if Brett Lawrie is Canadian for Gordon Beckham?

[oldsox]

Now Donaldson and Baltimore's Machado get to play each other 19 times. Might geet interesting.

[LDF]

 

nice break down, good reading.

 

i was reading on mlb rumors and their breakdown of the trade. they are calling the

winner to Tor, for getting that impact player.

 

while it is true of the impact player, mostly his bat, i still think it is a win for Oak. they,

Oak acquired player to fill holes left by last yr trades. they managed to acquire a future

SS, a really good RP and a nice looking SP. the last player is a filler to hold down the

position until their prospects in the minors comes on up. Oak has a really nice set of

positional players there. their top 5 prospects are positional players, they do need

more pitchers.

 

maybe the impact bat does mean something, however looking at the bigger picture,

i am leaning toward Oak.

 

side note, Oak has 2 top 11 player for every position of 1, 2, 3 and ss. a nice collection

[GreenSox]

Alexei remains the Sox best trade piece, and he can be used to improve the ball club next year.

He's a nice shortstop but he isn't that great and the Sox can cover the position. they can't cover pitching and LF.

[Real]

Alexei remains the Sox best trade piece, and he can be used to improve the ball club next year.

He's a nice shortstop but he isn't that great and the Sox can cover the position. they can't cover pitching and LF.

 

i think you're undervaluing his bat in the lineup

[LDF]

i think you're undervaluing his bat in the lineup

 

undervaluing, overvaluing it doesn't matter, btw i agree with you. this

trade proposal is something that KW would have agreed to.

[Eminor3rd]

Cruz just signed with Seattle, which takes away a suitor of Dodgers DH/OF types.

[Dick Allen]

Alexei remains the Sox best trade piece, and he can be used to improve the ball club next year.

He's a nice shortstop but he isn't that great and the Sox can cover the position. they can't cover pitching and LF.

If he isn't that great, why would any team give up much to get him?

 

He's old, he's falling apart, but he should net a really good prospect.

 

How does that make any sense?