BigHurt3515 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Seriously? We aren't trading Sale. Why is this always brought up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 02:49 PM) Seriously? We aren't trading Sale. Why is this always brought up? Because all 29 teams besides the SOX would absolutely love to have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 07:59 AM) His offensive numbers aren't that much better than Viciedo's. wtf planet do you live on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) The problem with trading Sale is it would be unprecedented. There's no such deal that has happened. Someone's going to come at me with the Teixera deal but that was just Daniels doing his HW and getting the Braves to pay a premium for a guy at the end of his rookie contract. The only comparables I can think of would be the Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker and those aren't even in the MLB. This was from 2009, when Adrian Gonzalez was still a bit of a superfreak. http://seattletimes.com/html/marinersblog/..._three-way.html I'm told the Red Sox apparently approached the Mariners and first tried to do a Hernandez trade with Seattle exclusively. Boston wanted Hernandez and gave the Mariners a list of eight prospects, from which Seattle would be allowed to pick any five. They included: RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro Seattle turned that down. But that was just the warm-up act to the blockbuster proposal that followed. Those guys were all considered really, really good prospects. but picking out any 5 of them does not result in a package that would have ultimately been worth it for Seattle to trade Felix. That's the point...you can get a package of the 5 best prospects and it still isn't going to make sense because guys can bust just as easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 02:49 PM) Seriously? We aren't trading Sale. Why is this always brought up? No one here is advocating it, just laughing at the foolishness of Red Sox fans. I, for one, cannot wait to watch this team get good enough for Sale to make fools of people in the postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe it was last year or a few years ago but I remember one reporter saying they contacted the White Sox about Sale. Pretty sure they've been obsessed with him since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) The thing to remember here is that if someone would have talked about us getting Boegarts and Middlebrooks in a deal as little as a year ago, it would have elicited a whole different reaction. The bloom was off the Middlebrooks rose well before a year ago. Boston drafts and develops well, but they hype every prospect they have, and the "prospect media" buys in.. Those guys must be scouted carefully to do a trade with them. I'm not sure Boston's GM knows what he's doing. Why did they need Alan Craig and Cespedes last year? And now they bring in 2 more? They are going to have a hard time unloading most of that excess and aren't going to get much above replacement for any of it. Edited November 24, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) The problem with trading Sale is it would be unprecedented. There's no such deal that has happened. Someone's going to come at me with the Teixera deal but that was just Daniels doing his HW and getting the Braves to pay a premium for a guy at the end of his rookie contract. The only comparables I can think of would be the Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker and those aren't even in the MLB. Off the top of my head weren't the trades for Dan Haren, Randy Johnson and Bartolo Colon pretty big ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 03:36 PM) Maybe it was last year or a few years ago but I remember one reporter saying they contacted the White Sox about Sale. Pretty sure they've been obsessed with him since then. I am sure at least 29 other teams have asked the Sox about Chris Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) wtf planet do you live on? They're really not that much better. He's a huge upgrade defensively and he can hit for a bit more power, but I don't think Cespedes is the kind of guy you want. If Viciedo gets some good luck in a year, he can easily match Cespedes' production the past two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The other thing about Cespedes is that Oakland is an OBP machine; he contrasts perfectly with the rest of the lineup that sets up the pins for him to drive in. They have so much OBP that a low OBP hitter like Cespedes fits in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) They're really not that much better. He's a huge upgrade defensively and he can hit for a bit more power, but I don't think Cespedes is the kind of guy you want. If Viciedo gets some good luck in a year, he can easily match Cespedes' production the past two years. Idk man. I'm very much on the "Cespedes is overrated" team, but he's way better than Viciedo. Cespedes has been a 2-3 win player every year, Viciedo has been replacement level his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 04:01 PM) Idk man. I'm very much on the "Cespedes is overrated" team, but he's way better than Viciedo. Cespedes has been a 2-3 win player every year, Viciedo has been replacement level his entire career. I don't know about way better. At this point Cespedes is a .330 wOBA guy. I still feel Viciedo has a shot at being at least a .320 wOBA guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) I don't know about way better. At this point Cespedes is a .330 wOBA guy. I still feel Viciedo has a shot at being at least a .320 wOBA guy. I mean I think you hit my point on the head right there. Cespedes currently IS a tick better at the plate than you think Viciedo HAS A CHANCE TO BE. And Cespedes is also a substantially better defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 11:01 PM) Idk man. I'm very much on the "Cespedes is overrated" team, but he's way better than Viciedo. Cespedes has been a 2-3 win player every year, Viciedo has been replacement level his entire career. i am really torn on this, do i like him or is he no better than DV. i am confuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 06:31 PM) i am really torn on this, do i like him or is he no better than DV. i am confuse. He is clearly better than DV. That doesn't mean we should want him. DV is terrible, lots of players are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 12:33 AM) He is clearly better than DV. That doesn't mean we should want him. DV is terrible, lots of players are better. the objective of my interest and of course confusion is that Cuban Factor to make this team interesting esp when their TV deal come back up. let alone beside that winning a couple more of WS rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 06:57 PM) the objective of my interest and of course confusion is that Cuban Factor to make this team interesting esp when their TV deal come back up. let alone beside that winning a couple more of WS rings. The White Sox's TV deal does not come back up until 2019. It should not be a factor in any thinking in any way, shape, or form, outside of "put together as many winning seasons prior to 2019 as you can", but there's no reason why that's any different than what you want to do in a normal year. Win as often as you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 12:58 AM) The White Sox's TV deal does not come back up until 2019. It should not be a factor in any thinking in any way, shape, or form, outside of "put together as many winning seasons prior to 2019 as you can", but there's no reason why that's any different than what you want to do in a normal year. Win as often as you can. really i thought it was 2020. umm then why is 2020 date interest me. no offense, i am talking out loud. either way, a couple of winning season, sir you are correct there. let alone, hopefully WS rings. i keep thinking of the Dodgers tv deal, $200 mil!!!! everything from now until the sox win their first WS ring, cough next yr cough cough , is getting the right mixture of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 06:03 PM) really i thought it was 2020. umm then why is 2020 date interest me. no offense, i am talking out loud. either way, a couple of winning season, sir you are correct there. let alone, hopefully WS rings. i keep thinking of the Dodgers tv deal, $200 mil!!!! everything from now until the sox win their first WS ring, cough next yr cough cough , is getting the right mixture of players. $334 million per year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 04:27 PM) I mean I think you hit my point on the head right there. Cespedes currently IS a tick better at the plate than you think Viciedo HAS A CHANCE TO BE. And Cespedes is also a substantially better defender. Looking at Viciedo's numbers, he's only one year removed from .318 and two from .325. So It's not like he's never done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 05:09 PM) Looking at Viciedo's numbers, he's only one year removed from .318 and two from .325. So It's not like he's never done it. What value is he? In a platoon where he could rake LHP, maybe, but you can't state that it is necessarily a strength and his defensive value is so negative and I see no reason to grade out significant improvements going forward. Given that we have DH filled, I see no place for Dayan on this roster, unless of course our baseball people think a light will go off and allow him to take a few steps forward and become an above average offensive player whose bat more then makes up for his defense. Right now we are talking about an at best league average and more realistically, slightly below league average bat who also provides atrocious defense. His value is extremely negative in the grand scheme of things so again unless we think going forward that will significantly change, no point in having him around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:09 AM) Looking at Viciedo's numbers, he's only one year removed from .318 and two from .325. So It's not like he's never done it. yeah I am not a fan of his from day 1. I don't know why, but come on, he must have some talent. its like he has his head up his arse. is he really this stupid. that is why I am constantly telling of getting a couple more Cubans on the team so they can kick some sense into him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 07:53 PM) What value is he? In a platoon where he could rake LHP, maybe, but you can't state that it is necessarily a strength and his defensive value is so negative and I see no reason to grade out significant improvements going forward. Given that we have DH filled, I see no place for Dayan on this roster, unless of course our baseball people think a light will go off and allow him to take a few steps forward and become an above average offensive player whose bat more then makes up for his defense. Right now we are talking about an at best league average and more realistically, slightly below league average bat who also provides atrocious defense. His value is extremely negative in the grand scheme of things so again unless we think going forward that will significantly change, no point in having him around. Of course, we could have predicted that about DeAza and Beckham before the 2014 season...we could have given Sanchez/Semien more of an opportunity to "prove" what they could do. Right now, one has to draw the conclusion they're closer to utility players than everyday starters on the middle infield. Obviously there are a variety of opinions on the board about all three of those guys (including Micah Johnson, who perhaps is better suited as a trade chip than future starter because of his arm/injuries/inability to translate basestealing technique to MLB level). Because of the Garcia injury, DeAza and Viciedo both received significant at-bats, but it didn't create any value for the White Sox in the end. Both went from being assets in 2011-12 to being virtually worthless. Edited November 25, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 02:57 AM) Of course, we could have predicted that about DeAza and Beckham before the 2014 season...we could have given Sanchez/Semien more of an opportunity to "prove" what they could do. Right now, one has to draw the conclusion they're closer to utility players than everyday starters on the middle infield. Because of the Garcia injury, DeAza and Viciedo both received significant at-bats, but it didn't create any value for the White Sox in the end. Both went from being assets in 2011-12 to being virtually worthless. I really disagree with the DeAza comment of not creating value. he went into a bad tail spin, which I believe is b/c for him, the team had no faith in him. b/c of that, he went into a depression which affected his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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