shago Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Know his chances with only two years left are slim, but how do we feel? 5th All-time stolen bases, excellent career BA/OPS+ Best 1B coach of all-time Career Stats: G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB 2502 10359 8872 1571 2605 430 113 170 980 808 146 1330 966 .294 .385 .425 .810 123 3771 142 42 39 76 148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He belongs. His walks, OBP, and SB percentage were undervalued. He basically missed a full season of prime-career games because of strikes and collusion. I think he has a good shot in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) He put up close to a .900 OPS one season with 90 SB. He was a good player with the White Sox, but he was awesome with the Expos. I think his last 7 or 8 seasons of just being a really good offensive player probably takes the focus off how dominating he was during his prime. thanks, Dick. Edited January 7, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GamesToLove Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He's the second greatest lead-off hitter and baserunner of all time. Of course he deserves to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yeah, he's a pretty clear-cut HOF guy, IMO. His problem was he excelled at things that were underappreciated by the public (not necessarily by players/managers) at the time he was active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He played for the wrong franchises. A Yankee / Red Sox bump would put him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (OsweGo-Go Sox @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) He's the second greatest lead-off hitter and baserunner of all time. Of course he deserves to be in. Yup, its a travesty nobody shares that opinion. The numbers speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I saw him as a minor leaguer in Denver when it was the AAA farm team of Expos. That team had Rock, Andre Dawson, Tim Wallach, Ellis Valentine, plus Jerry Manuel at short. Geez, was that a good team and fun to watch. Raines was a 2B at the time. If they had left him at second, he might have been greatest 2B of all time. Edited January 7, 2015 by oldsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Did i hear right that he only has two more years on the ballot before he is removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He should lbe, but I don't think he will be. If he was going to, he would have already been voted in. I don't see what kind of traction he could get to give him a bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (lord chas @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) Did i hear right that he only has two more years on the ballot before he is removed? Yes. Mattingly, Trammell, and Lee Smith got grandfathered for 15. Everyone else has 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 01:53 PM) Yes. Mattingly, Trammell, and Lee Smith got grandfathered for 15. Everyone else has 10 years. This makes no sense to me why they chose to do it this way. If they were going to grandfather anybody in, it should have been everybody that was already on the ballot. Otherwise they could have essentially given a guy who's been on the ballot 9 years just one more, while a guy who has already been on 11 years gets 4 more. How much sense does that make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Raines is a HOF to me next to Rickey Henderson he was able to change a game by just getting on base more than anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GamesToLove Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) Yup, its a travesty nobody shares that opinion. The numbers speak for themselves. To be fair, 55% of voters do share that opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He will get a significant push these next two years, the question is can he get that much of a push. IF there were a good two years for Raines to be in his final two years, it would be the next two years where only Griffey is a sure fire first ballot HOF'er. Vladdy is a sure fire HOF'er as well but don't know that he is first ballot. Manny should be, but those positive tests and other issues are going to keep him out for a while (if not forever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 01:33 PM) Yeah, he's a pretty clear-cut HOF guy, IMO. His problem was he excelled at things that were underappreciated by the public (not necessarily by players/managers) at the time he was active. And he also played in the same timeframe of the greatest lead off hitter and base stealer of all time. Quite a shadow to get out from under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Not sure if Raines' off the field issues during his prime and then slight dropoff in performance also didn't create an imperfect storm for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 04:13 PM) Not sure if Raines' off the field issues during his prime and then slight dropoff in performance also didn't create an imperfect storm for him. I would just about bet that there is a certain percentage of voters that won't vote for him because of the whole cocaine thing. Whether that's a significant percentage or not is anybody's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 curse of being an Expo? If this guy was a Yankee, Cardinal or Red Sox he'd already be in. There are not many players who excelled at all aspects of the game. Not just played them well, but excelled. Raines was one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 05:26 PM) curse of being an Expo? If this guy was a Yankee, Cardinal or Red Sox he'd already be in. There are not many players who excelled at all aspects of the game. Not just played them well, but excelled. Raines was one of them. Agreed. Although he did win 2 World Series with the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 08:35 PM) Yup, its a travesty nobody shares that opinion. The numbers speak for themselves. A lot of good knowledgeable baseball people, including on this board, believe he ranks just below Ricky Henderson. He deserves to be in the HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) A lot of good knowledgeable baseball people, including on this board, believe he ranks just below Ricky Henderson. He deserves to be in the HOF I think what really hurts him is that he was rarely the best player on his team (those Expos teams were loaded) and he never really lead the league in any major category. For whatever reason, he was often overshadowed. He is statistically the 6th best left fielder to play the game. That alone says...sure fire HOF'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Raines also benefits from the fact that there aren't many big names coming up next year which will help clear up some of the glut. Griffey is a sure thing, probably Edmonds, and then they drop off. Hopefully this allows more voters to use their expanded votes to vote in the deserving guys that have been passed over in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 QUOTE (The Baconator @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 06:07 PM) Raines also benefits from the fact that there aren't many big names coming up next year which will help clear up some of the glut. Griffey is a sure thing, probably Edmonds, and then they drop off. Hopefully this allows more voters to use their expanded votes to vote in the deserving guys that have been passed over in recent years. As great as Edmonds was, I doubt he makes the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 07:51 PM) As great as Edmonds was, I doubt he makes the hall. Just worth pointing out, total fWAR: Raines 66.4, Edmonds 64.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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