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caulfield12

What's new, more bad blood with the Blue Jays

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There was a more in depth article about this with dates, etc. JR isn't pursuing tampering charges because he considers Beeston his best friend in baseball.

 

What I don't understand is how can he be up in arms over this, if he really is, and not be over the Ozzie to Miami move which was even more clearly, tampering? I think most of his anger is the workings behind Beeston's back rather than actually tampering. I'm sure every team, including the White Sox, has technically tampered at some point.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 02:30 PM)
There was a more in depth article about this with dates, etc. JR isn't pursuing tampering charges because he considers Beeston his best friend in baseball.

 

What I don't understand is how can he be up in arms over this, if he really is, and not be over the Ozzie to Miami move which was even more clearly, tampering? I think most of his anger is the workings behind Beeston's back rather than actually tampering. I'm sure every team, including the White Sox, has technically tampered at some point.

 

you made a very good point on ozzie....

 

i just chalk it up to the sox wanting ozzie out of here, the quicker the better.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 08:30 AM)
There was a more in depth article about this with dates, etc. JR isn't pursuing tampering charges because he considers Beeston his best friend in baseball.

 

What I don't understand is how can he be up in arms over this, if he really is, and not be over the Ozzie to Miami move which was even more clearly, tampering? I think most of his anger is the workings behind Beeston's back rather than actually tampering. I'm sure every team, including the White Sox, has technically tampered at some point.

Because he didn't mind Ozzie leaving. JR has a history in believing that it's more important on how a team is built as opposed to who coaches it. The players are more important than the coach. Krause vs. Jackson.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 03:39 PM)
Because he didn't mind Ozzie leaving. JR has a history in believing that it's more important on how a team is built as opposed to who coaches it. The players are more important than the coach. Krause vs. Jackson.

 

haha krause really screw the pooch on that one. i believe he just let the success go to his head. the best would have been is stay in the background. that team had too many people with egos.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 08:30 AM)
There was a more in depth article about this with dates, etc. JR isn't pursuing tampering charges because he considers Beeston his best friend in baseball.

 

What I don't understand is how can he be up in arms over this, if he really is, and not be over the Ozzie to Miami move which was even more clearly, tampering? I think most of his anger is the workings behind Beeston's back rather than actually tampering. I'm sure every team, including the White Sox, has technically tampered at some point.

 

They got compensation from Florida for Ozzie, plus I am about 90% sure they wanted rid of him anyway, so they just let it happen instead of complaining about it and potentially collapsing the teams get out of jail free card with Ozzie.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:37 AM)
They got compensation from Florida for Ozzie, plus I am about 90% sure they wanted rid of him anyway, so they just let it happen instead of complaining about it and potentially collapsing the teams get out of jail free card with Ozzie.

They would have received more quality in regards to compensation for Ozzie, had Loria just popped for a few Slurpies for JR,KW, RH. The Ozzie to Miami talk had been going on for a while and IMO definitely affecte the way Ozzie carried himself, and ultimately affected the White Sox. Tampering is tampering. If you want to call it out here, you should have called it out there.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:38 AM)
What was the beef with Law?

 

I believe this stems from the idea that Law was in the Blue Jays front office shortly after the Sirotka trade went down and he felt the Sox wronged the Blue Jays and, as a result, has held a grudge against the Sox since that point.

 

I'm of the opinion that Keith Law has no obvious bias against the White Sox, doesn't care about that scenario, and, instead, didn't like the White Sox minor league system over the previous 10 years and he had a lot of harsh things to say about it, which many people here took as "Keith Law hates everything White Sox."

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:48 AM)
I believe this stems from the idea that Law was in the Blue Jays front office shortly after the Sirotka trade went down and he felt the Sox wronged the Blue Jays and, as a result, has held a grudge against the Sox since that point.

 

I'm of the opinion that Keith Law has no obvious bias against the White Sox, doesn't care about that scenario, and, instead, didn't like the White Sox minor league system over the previous 10 years and he had a lot of harsh things to say about it, which many people here took as "Keith Law hates everything White Sox."

Chris Sale and Jose Abreu, 2 White Sox mistakes according to Keith Law. If there is no grudge, it shows he does lack a bit of the expertise he believes he has.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:46 AM)
They would have received more quality in regards to compensation for Ozzie, had Loria just popped for a few Slurpies for JR,KW, RH. The Ozzie to Miami talk had been going on for a while and IMO definitely affecte the way Ozzie carried himself, and ultimately affected the White Sox. Tampering is tampering. If you want to call it out here, you should have called it out there.

 

If they call it out, there is a good chance Ozzie stays and you either have him sabotaging the team for another year, or you have to pay him for a year after you fire him. They aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot at the price of $3 million out of spite.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:50 AM)
Chris Sale and Jose Abreu, 2 White Sox mistakes according to Keith Law. If there is no grudge, it shows he does lack a bit of the expertise he believes he has.

 

I don't know what he said about Jose Abreu, but on Chris Sale, the information he had on him was that he was a lanky pitcher with a fastball/change up combo and he didn't know about his slider who projected as a reliever. He did not believe he would make it as a starter. Since that point, he's eaten his words.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:53 AM)
If they call it out, there is a good chance Ozzie stays and you either have him sabotaging the team for another year, or you have to pay him for a year after you fire him. They aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot at the price of $3 million out of spite.

No. Remember Ozzie couldn't work under a contract that was expiring. He would have fled. Why couldn't they file tampering charges after he was gone? Granted you released him from his contract, and received some sort of compensation, but couldn't you argue that due to the tampering, it made his staying not realistic?

 

And Ozzie was contacted really the year before, and they didn't want him gone then.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 03:59 PM)
No. Remember Ozzie couldn't work under a contract that was expiring. He would have fled. Why couldn't they file tampering charges after he was gone? Granted you released him from his contract, and received some sort of compensation, but couldn't you argue that due to the tampering, it made his staying not realistic?

 

good point, my take is the sox org wanted that situation to die and disappear

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:59 AM)
No. Remember Ozzie couldn't work under a contract that was expiring. He would have fled. Why couldn't they file tampering charges after he was gone? Granted you released him from his contract, and received some sort of compensation, but couldn't you argue that due to the tampering, it made his staying not realistic?

 

And Ozzie was contacted really the year before, and they didn't want him gone then.

 

I wouldn't have risked my $3 million that he would have walked away after what he did to the Sox AND a tampering accusation. Who would have touched him at that point? That tells me there is a decent chance that Ozzie doesn't quit. Instead he plays chicken with the Sox to get fired and keep him $3 million.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 04:34 PM)
I wouldn't have risked my $3 million that he would have walked away after what he did to the Sox AND a tampering accusation. Who would have touched him at that point? That tells me there is a decent chance that Ozzie doesn't quit. Instead he plays chicken with the Sox to get fired and keep him $3 million.

 

a very good point. i never thought of that.

 

question, could the sox have then coach lets say an AA team of theirs to fulfill the contract.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 10:52 AM)
Ugh, thanks, I was hoping it was something more material than this.

 

I agree with your opinion. Law has very much become supportive of the Sox in a number of different ways since Hahn has taken the GM spot. I don't know if Law had a bias against KW or a bias towards the more "new school" front office types but he's definitely changed his tune. It's worth noting that our system was utter trash from '08-'12. Before Dick Allen comes at me, yes, he was conservative on Abreu but the media was almost uniformly tepid on Abreu.

 

Side note - I hate how talking about Law objectively makes me seem like a Law fanboy because his fanboys are lame. "Keith how did your cinnamon, gluten-free scallops turn out? Hope you enjoy your lunch today!"

 

his "scouting" of Chris Sale was embarrassing. I believe he said all of his offspeed pitches were average or below average, specifically his slider

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QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 08:44 AM)
haha krause really screw the pooch on that one. i believe he just let the success go to his head. the best would have been is stay in the background. that team had too many people with egos.

It wasn't Krause's choice or idea. He was fine with the way it was. Jackson said he wanted more power or he was leaving. JR sided with Krause and let Jackson go.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 05:55 PM)
his "scouting" of Chris Sale was embarrassing. I believe he said all of his offspeed pitches were average or below average, specifically his slider

 

because of his rpt on Sale, or for his point of a pitcher with a slider as the #1 pitch, i was really unsure of Rodon.

 

as i have said many times, i will depend on people who have a knowledge on things that i do not know.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 10:52 AM)
Ugh, thanks, I was hoping it was something more material than this.

 

I agree with your opinion. Law has very much become supportive of the Sox in a number of different ways since Hahn has taken the GM spot. I don't know if Law had a bias against KW or a bias towards the more "new school" front office types but he's definitely changed his tune. It's worth noting that our system was utter trash from '08-'12. Before Dick Allen comes at me, yes, he was conservative on Abreu but the media was almost uniformly tepid on Abreu.

 

Side note - I hate how talking about Law objectively makes me seem like a Law fanboy because his fanboys are lame. "Keith how did your cinnamon, gluten-free scallops turn out? Hope you enjoy your lunch today!"

Yeah, It's pretty obvious it was KW for either or both of those reasons. His comments drastically changed once Hahn became GM.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 05:58 PM)
It wasn't Krause's choice or idea. He was fine with the way it was. Jackson said he wanted more power or he was leaving. JR sided with Krause and let Jackson go.

 

thanks for correcting me. here i thought it had to deal with the ego of MJ, Jackson and Krause. what also didn't help was MJ verbal jabs.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 10:55 AM)
his "scouting" of Chris Sale was embarrassing. I believe he said all of his offspeed pitches were average or below average, specifically his slider

 

I have admittedly shoddy memory on this subject, but my recollection was that he didn't like or didn't know about the sweeping slider. He thought he was fastball/change with a show me slider.

 

I am also not a Keith Law fanboy by any stretch of the imagination and I prefer the opinions of many others over him, but there are most definitely worse minor league guys out there than Keith Law.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2015 -> 09:03 AM)
I have admittedly shoddy memory on this subject, but my recollection was that he didn't like or didn't know about the sweeping slider. He thought he was fastball/change with a show me slider.

 

I am also not a Keith Law fanboy by any stretch of the imagination and I prefer the opinions of many others over him, but there are most definitely worse minor league guys out there than Keith Law.

Law is actually probably one of the better one's. He isn't afraid to stick his neck out their. That does mean he'll be wrong from time to time but the whole thing is a crapshoot.

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Just trying to think of some more reasons...

 

1) The way the Blue Jays treated Frank Thomas at the end of his career (not that the White Sox have a lot to be proud of there, either).

 

2) Signing Melky, although it seemed to be a near-certainty after some of Toronto's earlier moves in the offseason.

 

 

 

Dave (Appleton, WI)

 

What do you know about Jose Abreu? How much should he thank Puig and Cespedes for the contract he is going to sign?

Klaw (1:04 PM)

 

Puig, Cespedes, and Soler were all younger when they signed and they're all better athletes. Abreu can hit, but I don't think he has the high impact of Puig or Cespedes and won't have the defensive value.

 

www.espninsider.com

 

At least he didn't throw the whole "slider speed" bat comment out there into that analysis.

Edited by caulfield12

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