Texsox Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I was thinking about Phoenix and how they have been able to position their sports stadiums near great entertainment areas, have them reasonable grouped, and just a great place to attend events. It's too bad Chicago never developed that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) I was thinking about Phoenix and how they have been able to position their sports stadiums near great entertainment areas, have them reasonable grouped, and just a great place to attend events. It's too bad Chicago never developed that way. Chicago is an old city. The city layout was done centuries before professional sports became a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) Chicago is an old city. The city layout was done centuries before professional sports became a thing. All but the Cubs have had opportunities to move. Imagine a suburban sprawling complex with two or three stadiums, a huge entertainment district . . . It will never happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) All but the Cubs have had opportunities to move. Imagine a suburban sprawling complex with two or three stadiums, a huge entertainment district . . . It will never happen You'd have to move counties worth of distance out of the city to get enough land to have a full complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 In Philadelphia, the 3 stadiums all share parking lots. It is pretty cool. They have a building there where the Spectrum used to be with bars, restaurants and stores. It is pretty much in the middle of the 3 stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Arrowhead and Kauffman also share a parking lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) I was thinking about Phoenix and how they have been able to position their sports stadiums near great entertainment areas, have them reasonable grouped, and just a great place to attend events. It's too bad Chicago never developed that way. I thought the Coyotes' arena location was awful and the main excuse for their decreasing attendance? They moved from downtown to the middle of nowhere and people stopped going, including PK14 I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 In Minneapolis Target Center and Target Field are right next to each other downtown and near all the bars. Metrodome/new Vikings stadium are on the other side of downtown. There's some bars over there but it's mostly just vacant parking lots. Then the Wild play over in St. Paul, though they're by a bunch of bars. Going to a Twins game is more of a "thing to do" here than going to a Cubs or Sox game in Chicago is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) All but the Cubs have had opportunities to move. Imagine a suburban sprawling complex with two or three stadiums, a huge entertainment district . . . It will never happen There's a crap load of land when Arlington Racecourse finally goes under. Edited February 17, 2015 by Athomeboy_2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 In terms of urban planning (as opposed to the interests of the teams involved), it is basically agreed-upon by researchers that sports stadiums don't do cities any good. Expensive, big, don't do much for the surrounding area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) In terms of urban planning (as opposed to the interests of the teams involved), it is basically agreed-upon by researchers that sports stadiums don't do cities any good. Expensive, big, don't do much for the surrounding area. I don't know how much it really had to do with it, but the United Center at least had some impact on huge turnaround in the West Loop and Near West Side. You really didn't want to be walking down West Madison at any time of day as late as the late 80s or early 90s. Now there are women with strollers shopping. What the UC could use is a more convenient train stop. Edited February 17, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Arizona should not be an example for anything land-development wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 QUOTE (Jake @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) In terms of urban planning (as opposed to the interests of the teams involved), it is basically agreed-upon by researchers that sports stadiums don't do cities any good. Expensive, big, don't do much for the surrounding area. I know that's true as far as public financing of sports stadiums, but is it true even when the stadiums are 100% privately financed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) I don't know how much it really had to do with it, but the United Center at least had some impact on huge turnaround in the West Loop and Near West Side. You really didn't want to be walking down West Madison at any time of day as late as the late 80s or early 90s. Now there are women with strollers shopping. What the UC could use is a more convenient train stop. It had next to nothing to do with it but its now reaping some of the benefits. Next to the UC there will be a "sports complex" with stores, restaurants etc. Couple that with the new practice facilities and its as close as chicago can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) It had next to nothing to do with it but its now reaping some of the benefits. Next to the UC there will be a "sports complex" with stores, restaurants etc. Couple that with the new practice facilities and its as close as chicago can get. There obviously are some bars and restaurants that probably wouldn't be there if the Bulls and Hawks played in Addison. Probably a bigger impact if they cut back on the parking lots, and put some things in there besides pavement. The bars and restaurants near Wrigley couldn't stay in business if the Cubs didn't play there. I was reading about Goose Island shutting down near there. Their lease expired and their landlord wanted them to go on an month to month lease, but they were worried he would pull the plug before or during baseball season. Off season, they can't make money. So they just shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm FAR from an expert on urban development, but the timing and pattern of the West Loop's growth (now as opposed to 20 years ago, biggest development has happened at the eastern edge as opposed to near the stadium) leads me to believe it isn't because of the UC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 03:20 PM) There obviously are some bars and restaurants that probably wouldn't be there if the Bulls and Hawks played in Addison. Probably a bigger impact if they cut back on the parking lots, and put some things in there besides pavement. The bars and restaurants near Wrigley couldn't stay in business if the Cubs didn't play there. I was reading about Goose Island shutting down near there. Their lease expired and their landlord wanted them to go on an month to month lease, but they were worried he would pull the plug before or during baseball season. Off season, they can't make money. So they just shut down. The UC is far enough away that it wasnt a draw really, but it's now had some effect that the neighborhood and the stadium are mutually beneficial (other than no parking rules whatsoever unlike every other stadium in the city) and having the teams good is another bonus. Randolph street kind of grew independently but has become a bit of a draw for a night out as well as a game. The population in the area has grown so much it can sustain all of the bars etc at this point. The West loop boom was a perfect storm of so many different factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 03:20 PM) There obviously are some bars and restaurants that probably wouldn't be there if the Bulls and Hawks played in Addison. Probably a bigger impact if they cut back on the parking lots, and put some things in there besides pavement. The bars and restaurants near Wrigley couldn't stay in business if the Cubs didn't play there. I was reading about Goose Island shutting down near there. Their lease expired and their landlord wanted them to go on an month to month lease, but they were worried he would pull the plug before or during baseball season. Off season, they can't make money. So they just shut down. If Michael Jordan and six NBA titles couldn't turn that neighborhood around, I imagine the sports teams had little to do with the turn around. The Hawks were still big draws in the 90s too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Phoenix's arenas aren't much of an example of anything good. The Bob (D-Backs) is downtown, but downtown Phoenix is usually dead outside of busines hours. They built another one in Glendale in the middle of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) Phoenix's arenas aren't much of an example of anything good. The Bob (D-Backs) is downtown, but downtown Phoenix is usually dead outside of busines hours. They built another one in Glendale in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, I lived out there for a bit. D-Backs and the Suns are downtown. The Glendale location has been fine for the Cardinals, but a disaster for the Coyotes. The only time that arena was ever close to full was if an Original Six team was in town. Downtown Phoenix is pretty sleepy, but a lot of people work down there, so weeknight D-Backs and Suns games at least can get decent walk-up crowds. They have also seriously improved public transportation and there's a light rail stop right outside of the Bob. The Glendale location is in the middle of freaking nowhere - other than an NFL team, I have a hard time believing those locations work. EDIT: Not sure of the reason for the improvement, but the areas east of Coors Field here in Denver used to be pretty terrible, but have improved significantly over the last 5+ years. I suspect that has a lot more to do with Denver experiencing a boom than it does Coors Field, but still relevant to this discussion. Edited February 17, 2015 by illinilaw08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 03:27 PM) If Michael Jordan and six NBA titles couldn't turn that neighborhood around, I imagine the sports teams had little to do with the turn around. The Hawks were still big draws in the 90s too. Right. That there are a lot of bars out front with blackhawk flags out front may make it seem like they sprouted up because of the hawks, but if they were not sports bars they'd be something else. They sprouted out because of the residential development in west loop buildings and more people living there that can support it year round. Shysocks is right, it started building east to west, not the other way around. That Ukrainian village has seen similar growth, with worse transportation options and farther from the stadium/downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Feb 17, 2015 -> 05:30 PM) EDIT: Not sure of the reason for the improvement, but the areas east of Coors Field here in Denver used to be pretty terrible, but have improved significantly over the last 5+ years. I suspect that has a lot more to do with Denver experiencing a boom than it does Coors Field, but still relevant to this discussion. LoDo started exploding shortly after Coors was built (the process was already underway before that), which has been a happy circumstance for the Rockies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 18, 2015 -> 07:41 AM) LoDo started exploding shortly after Coors was built (the process was already underway before that), which has been a happy circumstance for the Rockies. Yep. Denver has had a downtown renaissance in the last 10 years or so. Its a liberal island in the middle of a conservative state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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