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Vince Coleman has Sox itching to step on gas


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QUOTE (peppers312 @ Feb 25, 2015 -> 09:26 AM)
agreed. having a successful base-stealing threat at the top of the lineup is only going help out our 2-3-4 hitters. last time we had a guy who was disruptive on the bases was Pods.

 

I think Juan Pierre swiping 68 bases in 2010 counts.

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Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 39m39 minutes ago

 

Ken Williams called Vince Coleman's talk this morning the best he ever heard on base running. Coleman extremely passionate on the topic

Avi Garcia, Micah Johnson, Tim Anderson, J.B. Shuck, Adam Eaton, Melky Cabrera, Alexei Ramirez and Emilio Bonifacio part of session

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 25, 2015 -> 08:19 PM)
Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 39m39 minutes ago

 

Ken Williams called Vince Coleman's talk this morning the best he ever heard on base running. Coleman extremely passionate on the topic

Avi Garcia, Micah Johnson, Tim Anderson, J.B. Shuck, Adam Eaton, Melky Cabrera, Alexei Ramirez and Emilio Bonifacio part of session

 

i am really excited of this part of sox baseball improving. but my concerns is, if the leadoff hitter is really not a base stealer, wouldn't he do more harm by trying to steal and getting caught. i mean the #2,3,4 hitter that the sox will field, wouldn't it be better to have him on base than getting caught?

 

i mean, anyone who played ball know it is an inherent, natural talent that one has, and not learned.

 

thoughts???

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QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 25, 2015 -> 02:45 PM)
i am really excited of this part of sox baseball improving. but my concerns is, if the leadoff hitter is really not a base stealer, wouldn't he do more harm by trying to steal and getting caught. i mean the #2,3,4 hitter that the sox will field, wouldn't it be better to have him on base than getting caught?

 

i mean, anyone who played ball know it is an inherent, natural talent that one has, and not learned.

 

thoughts???

 

 

It's a lot more about technique and reading the pitcher at the big league level.

 

In the minors, pure speed, pitchers not holding runners and just poor fundamental throwing mechanics from catchers are the main culprits.

 

Actually, Micah had a technique thing going, but it was felt by most scouts that it wouldn't work at higher levels and that he would have to make adjustments in his approach to be effective.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 25, 2015 -> 09:49 PM)
It's a lot more about technique and reading the pitcher at the big league level.

 

In the minors, pure speed, pitchers not holding runners and just poor fundamental throwing mechanics from catchers are the main culprits.

 

Actually, Micah had a technique thing going, but it was felt by most scouts that it wouldn't work at higher levels and that he would have to make adjustments in his approach to be effective.

 

Right, the Sox have plenty of fast guys at this point, question is, do they have any base stealers? Hopefully Vince can help out. I stole hundreds with him on RBI baseball.

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Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 2h2 hours ago

 

Vince Coleman said one of reasons he wanted to get back in baseball is the sport is getting back to fundamentals, away from steroids.

 

Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 2h2 hours ago

 

Asked why there are no more 100 stolen base guys, Vince Coleman said, "because they haven't had me as their baserunning coach."

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QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 25, 2015 -> 03:45 PM)
i am really excited of this part of sox baseball improving. but my concerns is, if the leadoff hitter is really not a base stealer, wouldn't he do more harm by trying to steal and getting caught. i mean the #2,3,4 hitter that the sox will field, wouldn't it be better to have him on base than getting caught?

 

i mean, anyone who played ball know it is an inherent, natural talent that one has, and not learned.

 

thoughts???

 

One of the biggest myths in all of sports is that skills involving running cannot be improved upon. Everyone who can run can train to run faster and all base runners can learn to read pitchers and catchers better. Whether that improvement translates into increased efficiency is, of course, a case-by-case determination.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 25, 2015 -> 12:45 PM)
i am really excited of this part of sox baseball improving. but my concerns is, if the leadoff hitter is really not a base stealer, wouldn't he do more harm by trying to steal and getting caught. i mean the #2,3,4 hitter that the sox will field, wouldn't it be better to have him on base than getting caught?

 

i mean, anyone who played ball know it is an inherent, natural talent that one has, and not learned.

 

thoughts???

Kind of silly to say anyone who has played ball knows it's an inherent natural talent and not learned.

 

There wouldn't be guys like Vince Coleman hired to teach if it was a natural talent and just speed. A guy like Eaton who stole maybe 16 but was caught 9 times has plenty of speed but needs to learn the finer points, reading pitchers, running on counts where you might think an offspeed pitch is coming, extending your lead , knowing pitchers moves ( who might use a slide step to quicken their delivery), knowing catchers with fast releases and strong arms,

 

There are even ways to increase your acceleration like head position, stride length, arm action and lead leg action. Also you can work out to increase acceleration also strengthening your gluts and hamstrings. http://blog.athletesbrand.com/chalk-talk-g...n-acceleration/

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 27, 2015 -> 12:39 AM)
Kind of silly to say anyone who has played ball knows it's an inherent natural talent and not learned.

 

There wouldn't be guys like Vince Coleman hired to teach if it was a natural talent and just speed. A guy like Eaton who stole maybe 16 but was caught 9 times has plenty of speed but needs to learn the finer points, reading pitchers, running on counts where you might think an offspeed pitch is coming, extending your lead , knowing pitchers moves ( who might use a slide step to quicken their delivery), knowing catchers with fast releases and strong arms,

 

There are even ways to increase your acceleration like head position, stride length, arm action and lead leg action. Also you can work out to increase acceleration also strengthening your gluts and hamstrings. http://blog.athletesbrand.com/chalk-talk-g...n-acceleration/

 

and it is kind of assine to think that vince did all of his stealing b/c someone taught him and not b/c he was a natural.

 

no matter how good of a coach vince is, he will not be able to teach someone like paulie k. who is slow of foot.

 

i would be more comfortable if he was around for 2 yrs and sharing his wealth of knowledge, but at the same time in the first season, not let the pupils so to speak be ultra aggressive.

 

i guess it is the aggressiveness on the base path i am thinking about.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 26, 2015 -> 04:59 PM)
and it is kind of assine to think that vince did all of his stealing b/c someone taught him and not b/c he was a natural.

 

no matter how good of a coach vince is, he will not be able to teach someone like paulie k. who is slow of foot.

 

i would be more comfortable if he was around for 2 yrs and sharing his wealth of knowledge, but at the same time in the first season, not let the pupils so to speak be ultra aggressive.

 

i guess it is the aggressiveness on the base path i am thinking about.

No one is a natural . Sure the faster you are the better your chances. I'm sure Coleman learned a lot of things along the way that helped him . You don't reach the pinnacle of the highest levels of any sport without gaining a lot of knowledge along the way and putting that knowledge to good use. If things can't be taught why hire the guy ? He knows he has a lot to offer otherwise he might just say " Either you got it or you don't, end of coaching lesson. "

 

Thank you Captain Obvious for stating he won't be teaching the slowest of the slow runners . The guys he's instructing all have speed, Eaton, Michah Johnson, Carlos Sanchez, Tim Anderson , Avi Garcia but his most important lessons are baserunning not steals , going 1st to 3rd on a single or 2nd to home. He constantly speaks about imparting the knowledge so it becomes second nature which, with practice, turns it into an instinctual thing. In other words you can LEARN to be a natural.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 27, 2015 -> 02:35 AM)
No one is a natural . Sure the faster you are the better your chances. I'm sure Coleman learned a lot of things along the way that helped him . You don't reach the pinnacle of the highest levels of any sport without gaining a lot of knowledge along the way and putting that knowledge to good use. If things can't be taught why hire the guy ? He knows he has a lot to offer otherwise he might just say " Either you got it or you don't, end of coaching lesson. "

 

Thank you Captain Obvious for stating he won't be teaching the slowest of the slow runners . The guys he's instructing all have speed, Eaton, Michah Johnson, Carlos Sanchez, Tim Anderson , Avi Garcia but his most important lessons are baserunning not steals , going 1st to 2rd on a single or 2nd to home. He constantly speaks about imparting the knowledge so it becomes second nature which with practice turns it into an instinctual thing. In other words you can LEARN to be a natural.

 

well at least if i am captain obvious, b/c you are really missing the point. btw, this is like playing a record so this is my last post on this.

 

the bolded is a product of talent, natural inherent that the powers to be bestow on them at birth. they needed talent in order to be special. now i am sure you can't be that determine to acknowledge what i am saying is true. Vince had the talent to become a premiere basestealer and will pass along his knowledge to others who may not have the god given talent to be as good, but can become a better player via coaching and what to look for. this knowledge will not let a player steal some 50+ bases but can improve in being aggressive.

 

lastly even you acknowledge on what i was saying about being aggressive on the base path, to take advantage of the little things, that a coach of vince's caliber can teach, and that is what i was saying in my first post, to be smart but not be too aggressive in the first yr. this takes time.... obviously this is something you couldn't understand.

 

btw, no one can not be taught to be natural or else there would be many, many players who should be playing major league ball, instead of reaching a plateau of being avg or below avg.

 

wake up and smell the coffee.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 26, 2015 -> 07:35 PM)
No one is a natural . Sure the faster you are the better your chances. I'm sure Coleman learned a lot of things along the way that helped him . You don't reach the pinnacle of the highest levels of any sport without gaining a lot of knowledge along the way and putting that knowledge to good use. If things can't be taught why hire the guy ? He knows he has a lot to offer otherwise he might just say " Either you got it or you don't, end of coaching lesson. "

 

Thank you Captain Obvious for stating he won't be teaching the slowest of the slow runners . The guys he's instructing all have speed, Eaton, Michah Johnson, Carlos Sanchez, Tim Anderson , Avi Garcia but his most important lessons are baserunning not steals , going 1st to 3rd on a single or 2nd to home. He constantly speaks about imparting the knowledge so it becomes second nature which with practice turns it into an instinctual thing. In other words you can LEARN to be a natural.

 

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QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 26, 2015 -> 07:18 PM)
well at least if i am captain obvious, b/c you are really missing the point. btw, this is like playing a record so this is my last post on this.

 

the bolded is a product of talent, natural inherent that the powers to be bestow on them at birth. they needed talent in order to be special. now i am sure you can't be that determine to acknowledge what i am saying is true. Vince had the talent to become a premiere basestealer and will pass along his knowledge to others who may not have the god given talent to be as good, but can become a better player via coaching and what to look for. this knowledge will not let a player steal some 50+ bases but can improve in being aggressive.

 

lastly even you acknowledge on what i was saying about being aggressive on the base path, to take advantage of the little things, that a coach of vince's caliber can teach, and that is what i was saying in my first post, to be smart but not be too aggressive in the first yr. this takes time.... obviously this is something you couldn't understand.

 

btw, no one can not be taught to be natural or else there would be many, many players who should be playing major league ball, instead of reaching a plateau of being avg or below avg.

 

wake up and smell the coffee.

Your first post was that stealing was an inherent talent and not learned yet you argue when I and others said many things can be learned to improve your abilty to steal. And you asked for thoughts. You got mine so don't cry bout being contradicted.

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FutureSox (FS): Your speed has gotten a lot of attention, but how much of your success in stealing bases would you say is raw speed, versus technique or analyzing pitchers?

 

Micah Johnson (MJ): At the beginning of the season it was probably like 80% just speed and good jumps. But as teams started figuring it out, and pitchers adjusted, now it is more about being smart. I'm not the fastest guy in the league, so especially now that they know me, I have to be smarter.

 

Keeping in mind he was talking about Kannapolis/SALLY/Low-A, in terms of his stolen base totals.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry3119553

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 27, 2015 -> 08:19 AM)
Your first post was that stealing was an inherent talent and not learned yet you argue when I and others said many things can be learned to improve your abilty to steal. And you asked for thoughts. You got mine so don't cry bout being contradicted.

 

there is a way to reply without belittling. that was the point that got to me. do not post as you are superior. btw, reread your post and see how you made this as an argumentative thread. btw i am not crying, it is you who can't stand be proven wrong. you are really petty during this whole rant.

 

:o

 

btw, the other part of my post was about the idea of being too aggressive when the sox have some of the best talent coming up behind eaton.

Edited by LDF
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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 27, 2015 -> 12:40 PM)
FutureSox (FS): Your speed has gotten a lot of attention, but how much of your success in stealing bases would you say is raw speed, versus technique or analyzing pitchers?

 

Micah Johnson (MJ): At the beginning of the season it was probably like 80% just speed and good jumps. But as teams started figuring it out, and pitchers adjusted, now it is more about being smart. I'm not the fastest guy in the league, so especially now that they know me, I have to be smarter.

 

Keeping in mind he was talking about Kannapolis/SALLY/Low-A, in terms of his stolen base totals.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry3119553

 

at least he has the knowledge or idea that he will need to make the necessary adjustment to become better.

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Technique can be taught, but if you are really going to steal a ton of bases, you have natural speed, some natural instinct, and you have to be pretty tough with a high pain tolerance. Guys that steal a lot get pretty beat up. Vince Coleman's pointers aren't going to make Adam Eaton a 75 SB guy. They can help for sure. Rickey Henderson was every bit of a freak as a baserunner as Nolan Ryan was as a pitcher.

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