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greg775

The OU Frat Boys

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Did you see the SAE fraternity members singing a racist song while on a bus going to a party with dates from a sorority?

"There will never be a (bleep) in SAE? I'd rather see them hang from a tree than join SAE???" Those are close to the exact words of the song.

The Oklahoma University president within 24 hours of the release of the racist video closed the doors of the frat and told all members to get out. They ripped down the letters SAE from the building as well. They now will investigate and probably expel whatever students were doing the singing.

 

My question is: a.) how can people be so racist in 2015?? b.) how can kids in this modern era do something so stupid and racist in the age of cell phone taping? Sure enough somebody taped it and released it.

 

I want to know when the sorority members who also were laughing and singing get kicked off campus as well?

I think this is one of the worst incidents of racism I've ever heard of since the Year 2000. Disgusting.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:36 PM)
Did you see the SAE fraternity members singing a racist song while on a bus going to a party with dates from a sorority?

"There will never be a (bleep) in SAE? I'd rather see them hang from a tree than join SAE???" Those are close to the exact words of the song.

The Oklahoma University president within 24 hours of the release of the racist video closed the doors of the frat and told all members to get out. They ripped down the letters SAE from the building as well. They now will investigate and probably expel whatever students were doing the singing.

 

My question is: a.) how can people be so racist in 2015?? b.) how can kids in this modern era do something so stupid and racist in the age of cell phone taping? Sure enough somebody taped it and released it.

 

I want to know when the sorority members who also were laughing and singing get kicked off campus as well?

I think this is one of the worst incidents of racism I've ever heard of since the Year 2000. Disgusting.

 

I may be broadbrushing a bit here, but i am willing to stick my neck out and say the apples do not fall far from the tree. That isnt something that you just discover when you are in college.

 

And these kids ruined their reputations over it. Karma is a b****

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:36 PM)
Did you see the SAE fraternity members singing a racist song while on a bus going to a party with dates from a sorority?

"There will never be a (bleep) in SAE? I'd rather see them hang from a tree than join SAE???" Those are close to the exact words of the song.

The Oklahoma University president within 24 hours of the release of the racist video closed the doors of the frat and told all members to get out. They ripped down the letters SAE from the building as well. They now will investigate and probably expel whatever students were doing the singing.

 

My question is: a.) how can people be so racist in 2015?? b.) how can kids in this modern era do something so stupid and racist in the age of cell phone taping? Sure enough somebody taped it and released it.

 

I want to know when the sorority members who also were laughing and singing get kicked off campus as well?

I think this is one of the worst incidents of racism I've ever heard of since the Year 2000. Disgusting.

a. There are a lot of people for whom that level of racism is just normal. We just don't hear about it until we get blatant examples, instead we hear about how its no longer a problem.

b. They're kids. You've said yourself you did stupid things in college, we all probably have different versions of that. If you've grown up surrounded by people who think its ok to use the N word and joke about lynching, throw in a couple stupid college decisions and let's make this video and go cheer for the OK football team.

c. You haven't paid much attention to actual incidents of racism since the year 2000. For crying out loud, go take a look at the Ferguson Police Department report. Those were policemen on duty making the same kind of jokes in their official email accounts.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 08:43 PM)
a. There are a lot of people for whom that level of racism is just normal. We just don't hear about it until we get blatant examples, instead we hear about how its no longer a problem.

b. They're kids. You've said yourself you did stupid things in college, we all probably have different versions of that. If you've grown up surrounded by people who think its ok to use the N word and joke about lynching, throw in a couple stupid college decisions and let's make this video and go cheer for the OK football team.

c. You haven't paid much attention to actual incidents of racism since the year 2000. For crying out loud, go take a look at the Ferguson Police Department report. Those were policemen on duty making the same kind of jokes in their official email accounts.

 

Good points all.

Yeah I did some dumb things in college for sure. I don't know what I'd have done back then if I was on a bus and somebody started singing that. I would hope I would have stopped it. It's possible the me back then might have rebelled and stopped it on the spot. I remember one time in our frat, we were in a room, and we were passing a bottle of whiskey around (I guess we weren't afraid of germs) and a freshman opened his throat and started chugging the whole bottle and I knocked it out of his hands lest he kill himself.

I hear you, though. Good points.

Edited by greg775

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The university has gone and expelled them, which seems like pretty clear first amendment violations.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 11:06 PM)
The university has gone and expelled them, which seems like pretty clear first amendment violations.

 

Probably, but what are the odds the students choose to file suit to defend their rights to be so racist in 2015? 1970 maybe, but not today.

 

 

 

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OU has 5% black students on campus. It's not exactly a haven of acceptance for other races. Couple that with a historically racist fraternity, alcohol and camera phones and you get this situation. It's not like its the only racist thing that has ever been said at a fraternity party, white or black or whatever. It just so happened to be caught on camera.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 11:06 PM)
The university has gone and expelled them, which seems like pretty clear first amendment violations.

 

They weren't just singing about n*****s, they were singing about hanging n*****s (in reference to those fellow students wishing to pledge their fraternity) from a tree. Good luck with that case, but I'll bet one of their rich daddys tries it.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 11:06 PM)
The university has gone and expelled them, which seems like pretty clear first amendment violations.

 

Do you have many more 1st amendment protections in college than you do at the HS level?

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Why would there be a first amendment issue here?

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QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 11:11 AM)
Why would there be a first amendment issue here?

 

Univ. of Oklahoma is a government agent (e.g., a state institution), acting against someone for words they expressed. If the Univ of Oklahoma were expelling students for saying that George Bush is a bad President, do you think that would be ok?

 

edit: to get away with it, the Univ. is going to have to argue that it was a threat against someone. Hence the usage of the words "hostile educational environment" in the Univ. president's statement. I don't think any court would buy that though.

Edited by Jenksismybitch

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QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 11:11 AM)
Why would there be a first amendment issue here?

Maybe you could stretch it because it is a state university, therefore an extension of government? Kinda pushing it though.

 

Either way they were threatening a race of people, so it won't fly. No lawsuit grounds that would work here.

 

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Yeah I thought the same thing:

An Oklahoma defense attorney who has litigated against the University of Oklahoma in student misconduct and due process cases said he agreed with Boren's decision to move swiftly to punish the students -- even though it's in a legal "gray area."

 

“I’m the person that gets these calls, and I’d tell you, I wouldn’t touch this case with a 10-foot pole,” said the attorney, who requested anonymity to speak frankly about the incident, which he said disgusted him. “Here’s what I think is going on: I think President Boren knew what he needed to do, and they’re definitely in a gray area when it comes to due process."

 

But the gray area may not matter. The attorney said that public opinion in Norman was so overwhelmingly against the fraternity that he didn’t think the fraternity students would risk a lawsuit to try to return to a hostile campus.

 

In other words: Even if the university infringed on the students' rights, it could get away with it.

 

“If I was President Boren, I would have done exactly the same thing,” the defense attorney said. “He found what he needed to do legally and ran it through. … He knew exactly what he could do to push the envelope and pushed it -- and it needed to be pushed.”

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 11:18 AM)
Maybe you could stretch it because it is a state university, therefore an extension of government? Kinda pushing it though.

 

Either way they were threatening a race of people, so it won't fly. No lawsuit grounds that would work here.

 

Univ of OK is a public university, it's absolutely a government agent subject to the Constitution. That's very settled law.

 

Whether this is threatening speech is the question. I don't think generalized threats (if that's what this would be) against a race is enough. The exception of threatening speech is pretty narrow. You gotta be specific, basically inciting immediate violence.

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I feel bad for the kids that werent on the bus and werent participating in the chant. You were guilty by association and now you have no place to live in March.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 11:11 AM)
Why would there be a first amendment issue here?

 

 

Theoretically, you have a public university (i.e., "the government") punishing "free speech" by expelling the students for their offensive chant. However, I think there are numerous reasons why there isn't a real issue (or at least not a "clear" one as the OP claimed). Primarily, because this "speech" was more than merely racial; it referred to lynching black students who tried to pledge the frat. In that case, I think any public school (HS or college is no different) has a right to discipline that arguable intimidation, given its duty to protect other students from same.

 

You aren't necessarily exempt from a violating a school's code of conduct just because your misconduct happens to involve "speech."

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 09:42 AM)
OU has 5% black students on campus. It's not exactly a haven of acceptance for other races. Couple that with a historically racist fraternity, alcohol and camera phones and you get this situation. It's not like its the only racist thing that has ever been said at a fraternity party, white or black or whatever. It just so happened to be caught on camera.

 

It wasn't like these two kids just came up with an impromptu song out of nowhere. I am sure they heard it from their older fraternity brothers, who had it passed down by other guys. These guys were just dumb enough to sing it in front of people not part of the fraternity. The core of the problem is deeper than just these two idiots.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 11:31 AM)
It wasn't like these two kids just came up with an impromptu song out of nowhere. I am sure they heard it from their older fraternity brothers, who had it passed down by other guys. These guys were just dumb enough to sing it in front of people not part of the fraternity. The core of the problem is deeper than just these two idiots.

It's a historically racist fraternity started at Bama. It doesnt surprise me. Many of the southern fraternities including many of the black ones were founded with segregation and racism as part of their core values.

 

However Oklahoma and its campus arent exactly black friendly, so the deeper issue is why they felt it was ok to sing something like that in front of people at a date party. Clearly there is some accepted level of Racism at that school.

Edited by RockRaines

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I find it hard to believe, so much of the student conduct policy would seem to cover stuff like this.

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I dont get why anyone, in this day and age, do anything stupid like that with camera phones around. Once again, so happy that and social media didnt exist when I was in college.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 01:04 PM)
I dont get why anyone, in this day and age, do anything stupid like that with camera phones around. Once again, so happy that and social media didnt exist when I was in college.

Because they don't get that its stupid, it's normal. The parents of one of the expelled kids released a statement apologizing and saying they know that in his heart he's not a racist, because racism is bad and none of them can be bad, they just know they're better off without the black people around.

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MSNBC host and a couple other op-ed writers including Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol blame "rap music" for the controversy.

 

Twitter bursts into action with hashtag "#RapAlbumsThatCausedSlavery"

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QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 10:26 AM)
Univ of OK is a public university, it's absolutely a government agent subject to the Constitution. That's very settled law.

 

Whether this is threatening speech is the question. I don't think generalized threats (if that's what this would be) against a race is enough. The exception of threatening speech is pretty narrow. You gotta be specific, basically inciting immediate violence.

 

 

Generalized threats made in private which were filmed and released without the person's knowledge. It'd be very hard to stretch that into some sort of legitimate case for expelling students over speech.

 

 

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 11, 2015 -> 10:38 AM)
It's a historically racist fraternity started at Bama. It doesnt surprise me. Many of the southern fraternities including many of the black ones were founded with segregation and racism as part of their core values.

 

However Oklahoma and its campus arent exactly black friendly, so the deeper issue is why they felt it was ok to sing something like that in front of people at a date party. Clearly there is some accepted level of Racism at that school.

 

It's the only existing fraternity founded in the antebellum south.

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