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26 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Have you ever considered starting some sort of company that hires people with similar issues as yours? Sometimes you have to make your own opportunities. And I assume that there are many other people like you, who just need some help to be able to be valuable to companies.

Absolutely. Working on it as we speak. 

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28 minutes ago, The Sir said:

I didn't miss the point. You talk about needing other people to be blunt and direct, but if what you just said was the actual point, it was hidden far between the lines. In your original post you literally said, "don't fucking tell me I haven't been through hell". You also said you've faced what I have and then some (pretty obnoxious to assume what other people have done and dealt with in their lives). All because I pointed out that everyone has struggles. The entire point of your original post was that you've had a rough go of it. And the other posters in the thread have made mention of your love of the victim card- so I'm not imagining things. If you can't see how toxic that is for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I realize that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who have it worse than me in this country. I don't know what you've dealt with, it might have been worse. I won't deny I've had a rough go of it. That wasn't the point of that post though. The point was that I overcame all of that bullshit , did everything that I was supposed to do and it apparently has no value to employers. Frustrating beyond belief. 

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12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Jack - Have you tried networking with anyone in the Chemical Engineering field?  Have you looked at unpaid internships, if those exist?  You’ve got to really think outside of the box, because no one is going to hand you a job when you’re in your mid 30’s with a complete lack of real job experience.

I went to industry meetings for 3 years post-graduation, met a bunch of people, had a group advocating on my behalf and still couldn't get even an interview. I got my first and only engineering interview in 2017, and I didn't get the job. I got a personal rejection letter, they said they liked me but needed someone with industry experience. It had been 6 years since I graduated at that point and I figured that it just wasn't going to happen. I have completely switched gears since then.  About your second point, I don't even know if I can get an interview anymore. Idk how to overcome that objection. 

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17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I realize that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who have it worse than me in this country. I don't know what you've dealt with, it might have been worse. I won't deny I've had a rough go of it. That wasn't the point of that post though. The point was that I overcame all of that bullshit , did everything that I was supposed to do and it apparently has no value to employers. Frustrating beyond belief. 

It's alright, man. I'm not trying to claim that my background was worse (again, I've had a happy life thus far); I just wanted to emphasize that everyone has struggles and that we shouldn't assume what anyone else is going through. And we shouldn't let those struggles be the end of our world. The victim mentality that puts this stuff up on a pedestal serves no one. It just poisons the person who has it. You've shown that mentality sometimes, honestly, but you've also said some things to suggest you can take the bull by the horns and get past all of it. I hope you do and I hope it works out for you. Nothing but the best, dude.

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6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Way to completely miss the fucking point. I shared all of that not to gain sympathy, but to say that I've overcome all of this shit, got a BS in Chemical engineering from a top tech school, and yet, none of it matters. Nobody cares. My backstory means nothing, my background means nothing. Nothing has value to anyone.

We care and wish u happiness and peace Jack P. 

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I've been thinking about what I posted in this thread for a while, and really it does me no good to constantly b**** about getting the short end of the stick. Being angry and bitter does me no good, I should just move forward from here and try to make the best of my situation as it exists today. 

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On 8/23/2019 at 9:48 PM, Jack Parkman said:

I've been thinking about what I posted in this thread for a while, and really it does me no good to constantly b**** about getting the short end of the stick. Being angry and bitter does me no good, I should just move forward from here and try to make the best of my situation as it exists today. 

That is all you can do. I wish I could change my educational background from the past and end up in a different career. We only have today and the future to look forward to. The past is the past.

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10 hours ago, The Beast said:

That is all you can do. I wish I could change my educational background from the past and end up in a different career. We only have today and the future to look forward to. The past is the past.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Those that live in the past show/promote depression. 

Those that live in the future promote anxiety.

Those that live in the present promote peace. 

Edited by ptatc
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So I was watching a video from my favorite capitalist, Nick Hanauer. He had a quote in the video where he said "Ambition in the absence of opportunity creates anger and resentment." That fits me to a tee. I've always been ambitious, probably to a fault. I realize the sacrifices necessary to get to where you want to go in life, and have made the sacrifices with zero opportunity. As long as I'm making progress, and seeing the fruits of my labor I'll work as hard or harder than anyone. If progress stalls, I'll seek new opportunities. The issue comes when you're never getting those opportunities. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and realized that my blind ambition has gotten in the way a lot. I always want more quickly. One of the things I had was an unrealistic expectation of how quickly you are able to advance or take on new tasks and responsibilities at work. I need a more clearly defined timeframe and and career development path.

One of the things I've decided is to go into my next job(whatever it may be) and just do my absolute best at what they ask me to do, don't attempt to read between the lines and let my work speak for itself. Try to learn the lay of the land before trying to show how ambitious I am. Maybe, just maybe my blind ambition was seen more as a threat than a positive trait. And also, if you're bored for a while that's to be expected for the first 12-18 months or so. Suck it up and deal with it. A lot of my clashes with my bosses came from unrealistic expectations on my part about how much and when I could gain more responsibility and new projects when I got bored, instead of realizing that that the groundwork wasn't laid for my long term success yet. 

This kind of self-realization is thenkind of stuff I mean when I said "I wasn't ready for work then, but I am now" 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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On 8/12/2019 at 5:27 PM, Jack Parkman said:

Way to completely miss the fucking point. I shared all of that not to gain sympathy, but to say that I've overcome all of this shit, got a BS in Chemical engineering from a top tech school, and yet, none of it matters. Nobody cares. My backstory means nothing, my background means nothing. Nothing has value to anyone.

Honestly, a college education is usually what gets you in the door in your career in an entry level position.  However, it’s usually the years of experience in your field that are what keep you employed and give you the opportunity to change jobs and improve on your position and salary.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Honestly, a college education is usually what gets you in the door in your career.  However, it’s usually the years of experience in your field that are what keep you employed and gives you the opportunity to change jobs and improve on your position and salary.

What do you do when it doesn't get you in the door? That's always been my problem. I have no doubt I'd be fine if I got in the door. Nobody's letting me in. 

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On 9/2/2019 at 4:30 AM, Jack Parkman said:

So I was watching a video from my favorite capitalist, Nick Hanauer. He had a quote in the video where he said "Ambition in the absence of opportunity creates anger and resentment." That fits me to a tee. I've always been ambitious, probably to a fault. I realize the sacrifices necessary to get to where you want to go in life, and have made the sacrifices with zero opportunity. As long as I'm making progress, and seeing the fruits of my labor I'll work as hard or harder than anyone. If progress stalls, I'll seek new opportunities. The issue comes when you're never getting those opportunities. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and realized that my blind ambition has gotten in the way a lot. I always want more quickly. One of the things I had was an unrealistic expectation of how quickly you are able to advance or take on new tasks and responsibilities at work. I need a more clearly defined timeframe and and career development path.

One of the things I've decided is to go into my next job(whatever it may be) and just do my absolute best at what they ask me to do, don't attempt to read between the lines and let my work speak for itself. Try to learn the lay of the land before trying to show how ambitious I am. Maybe, just maybe my blind ambition was seen more as a threat than a positive trait. And also, if you're bored for a while that's to be expected for the first 12-18 months or so. Suck it up and deal with it. A lot of my clashes with my bosses came from unrealistic expectations on my part about how much and when I could gain more responsibility and new projects when I got bored, instead of realizing that that the groundwork wasn't laid for my long term success yet. 

This kind of self-realization is thenkind of stuff I mean when I said "I wasn't ready for work then, but I am now" 

I think you need to focus on the bolded part the most.  In my 15+ year career in IT, I think I clashed with one boss, and it was “clashing” in the form of verbal disagreement, not anything out of line.  This really shouldn’t be something that occurs that much in someone’s career and may be the root of your struggles.  Cuz guess what, usually your boss is going to win the argument and you will be out of a job, whether by your choice or not.

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

What do you do when it doesn't get you in the door? That's always been my problem. I have no doubt I'd be fine if I got in the door. Nobody's letting me in. 

I would work on certifications, which is easy if you are in the IT field.  I am no expert on certs in other fields.   But you don’t have to actually go back to school and certs are highly valued by companies, sometimes even moreso than what degree you may have.  But a college degree + relevant certs in the job field you are applying for is highly desireable.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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Jack, you've mentioned you are a QA engineer, if you get an assignment to do some testing then get that job done.  If they aren't giving you more work, take that time to work on yourself or on some lean principles to help the team.  Maybe create some testing automation scripts, get a new certification, learn that system or the next system you are testing on in more detail, etc.  Plenty of things to keep you busy and satisfied without requiring your boss to give you direction or "approve" that work.  Of course that is under the assumption you are doing the required work well.

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On 9/2/2019 at 4:30 AM, Jack Parkman said:

So I was watching a video from my favorite capitalist, Nick Hanauer. He had a quote in the video where he said "Ambition in the absence of opportunity creates anger and resentment." That fits me to a tee. I've always been ambitious, probably to a fault. I realize the sacrifices necessary to get to where you want to go in life, and have made the sacrifices with zero opportunity. As long as I'm making progress, and seeing the fruits of my labor I'll work as hard or harder than anyone. If progress stalls, I'll seek new opportunities. The issue comes when you're never getting those opportunities. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and realized that my blind ambition has gotten in the way a lot. I always want more quickly. One of the things I had was an unrealistic expectation of how quickly you are able to advance or take on new tasks and responsibilities at work. I need a more clearly defined timeframe and and career development path.

One of the things I've decided is to go into my next job(whatever it may be) and just do my absolute best at what they ask me to do, don't attempt to read between the lines and let my work speak for itself. Try to learn the lay of the land before trying to show how ambitious I am. Maybe, just maybe my blind ambition was seen more as a threat than a positive trait. And also, if you're bored for a while that's to be expected for the first 12-18 months or so. Suck it up and deal with it. A lot of my clashes with my bosses came from unrealistic expectations on my part about how much and when I could gain more responsibility and new projects when I got bored, instead of realizing that that the groundwork wasn't laid for my long term success yet. 

This kind of self-realization is thenkind of stuff I mean when I said "I wasn't ready for work then, but I am now" 

Start asking yourself one question throughout the day: How can I make my boss successful?  Start with that, then once you've solidified your standing a bit on the team and at the company (like legit positive reviews, some tenure, etc) then start to take some ownership on your career and ambitions (which quite frankly I have no idea what they are from your posts since you've asked about changing careers a lot).  

 

I wouldn't usually give some of this advice but man, I honestly think based on your posts that you are not an easy person to manage and I think you need to show value before you can start making some demands of what you need out of a job (especially when you are posting that you are having trouble finding a job).  Get the stability first, then start having some awareness on where you can push and where you need to back off.  Make your boss' job easier, and quantify that.  Quantify your value, doesn't have to be exact but keep that ammo ready for when you feel you can start to make a push.

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17 hours ago, bigruss said:

Start asking yourself one question throughout the day: How can I make my boss successful?  Start with that, then once you've solidified your standing a bit on the team and at the company (like legit positive reviews, some tenure, etc) then start to take some ownership on your career and ambitions (which quite frankly I have no idea what they are from your posts since you've asked about changing careers a lot).  

 

I wouldn't usually give some of this advice but man, I honestly think based on your posts that you are not an easy person to manage and I think you need to show value before you can start making some demands of what you need out of a job (especially when you are posting that you are having trouble finding a job).  Get the stability first, then start having some awareness on where you can push and where you need to back off.  Make your boss' job easier, and quantify that.  Quantify your value, doesn't have to be exact but keep that ammo ready for when you feel you can start to make a push.

Dude believe me I get that I wasn't easy to manage. I can be a complete PITA. I get it. I've decided whenever I get my next chance I'm going to back off significantly. I hadn't a clue about workplace etiquette. None whatsoever. I know more now than I did before but I'm by no means perfect. Most of the stuff I did before was out of pure ignorance of what I could and couldn't get away with. I struggle remembering verbal directions so that's a huge issue. Besides that, I think I'm ok now. I'm a bit of a control freak so ceding control of what I'm doing to someone else was really hard for me.

If it was up to me, I'd be my own boss and freelance until I could start my own business. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:30 PM, The Sir said:

You're incredible, Jack. Does anything I say or anybody else says get through to you? I'm not here to play the Victimhood Olympics with you. I don't care. My only point is that everyone has struggles in life. You don't know what anyone else has dealt with, and despite my blurb, you don't know my entirety either. But you'd sit there and say that bolded shit, regardless. For what it's worth, I don't feel guilty saying that I've had a generally happy life thus far and see a similarly happy future for myself. My ultimate goal in life is to provide an amazing existence for myself, my wife, and most of all, my children. Being able to b**** on the internet about how dramatically traumatic it all is isn't much of a priority for me.

You come in here and act like you're this awe-inspiring genius, if only you could get over your direly lacking social skills. So I give you some genuine advice to build your charisma and, perhaps in some small way, move past these social struggles. Literally anyone could work on having a positive attitude and spending less time pushing their victim status and less time making silly, condescending assumptions about other people. I'm actually asking you to do less things and expend less energy, because if you take my advice, you'll spend less time complaining about things (maybe using that time for actual productivity). It's so fucking easy!

But nooooo, out of all the millions of people in America, you got an extra shitty hand. Many people's lives suck balls, but yours does even more so! Despite clearly identifying your problems, and being given some possible solutions, it will never be fixed at all because other people are mean and anti-meritocratic and the whole system is rigged extra good to fuck you.

So, fine, Jack. You win. Please come up to the podium and accept your Gold Medal of Endless Victimhood. I'll recall your glorious victory in these games while cruising on my yacht someday. Bravo!

I know I'm late on this and I also know we've had our differences, but this sounds like a script from a Saw movie when the person in a trap wakes up and moves which starts the TV/video tape and Jigsaw talks/explains why they're in the situation. All you needed was a "Hello Jack. I'd like to play a game."

Well done.

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1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

I know I'm late on this and I also know we've had our differences, but this sounds like a script from a Saw movie when the person in a trap wakes up and moves which starts the TV/video tape and Jigsaw talks/explains why they're in the situation. All you needed was a "Hello Jack. I'd like to play a game."

Well done.

Thanks man. I don't want to reignite this whole thing with Jack, but the events of of my own life over the last two weeks have demonstrated how important my harping about positive attitude is.

Nine years ago, I was 23 and I went to my initial officer training for the Army. I was physically fit and reasonably intelligent, but I had a SHIT attitude. I complained constantly, and I almost prided myself on being that guy who pointed out how fucking stupid everything was. My father told me before I joined the military that I needed to control my "fuck you" face- instead, I perfected that face and wore it in perpetuity. Needless to say, my peers and instructors didn't like me all that much. The instructors never would have counted on me for anything and, when we rotated through course leadership positions, they gave me the most irrelevant ones just so they could check the necessary boxes and move me along. We did peer evals, and if I ever peeked at someone else's, they'd compliment me on things like intellect, and then place me at the very bottom of the group being evaluated. Why the fuck was that, I thought. Why would you shit on the smart guy?

Oh, right. Because I was an asshole.

In the middle of August of this year, now 32, I was sent to a mandatory professional development course for my current rank. My intellect is about the same as it was a decade ago, and my physicality has decreased slightly- I'm building my old man strength, but I'm a little slower and fatter than before. But that all pales in comparison to my attitude. I simply decided that things were going to be different this time and so they were. I cheered on my classmates during the run on the fitness test, even though I was also running it myself. I volunteered for the primary leadership position in this course and got it. The instructor called me after hours to tell me about peers who were struggling and to make sure I got them the necessary assistance. One graded item for the course was known as professional officer quality and our grade in that category needed to average out to 85% across all students. Nine years ago I would have made it super easy for the grader, because I would have gotten a fucking ZERO. This time, I got 100%. Even though I passed my main event on the first day of evals (it's an hour long brief you have to give, so evals are scheduled over several days), I volunteered my free time to listen to other people rehearse their own briefs, staying up with one guy until 1 in the morning.

This isn't to brag- it's just to point out that by far and away the biggest factor in how you are perceived in any organization is your attitude. A bad one will destroy you, but a good one will advance you farther than you can imagine. It's also the easiest to control- if I showed up out of shape, it might have taken me weeks or months to get to where I needed to be. If I was unfamiliar with the fundamentals, it'd take some significant studying to get caught up. But attitude? That was a snap decision, and soon as I set my mind to it, it was done.

This applies to the military, to school, to sports (yeah yeah, without complicating this too much, talent does apply here- but if Moncada and Robert can both hit the shit out of a baseball, the one who has a better attitude and pours more of their heart into practice is going to, generally, hit more of the shit out of more of the baseballs), to business, to jobs, to wherever.

More than any other single thing- have a positive attitude.

 

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47 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Thanks man. I don't want to reignite this whole thing with Jack, but the events of of my own life over the last two weeks have demonstrated how important my harping about positive attitude is.

Nine years ago, I was 23 and I went to my initial officer training for the Army. I was physically fit and reasonably intelligent, but I had a SHIT attitude. I complained constantly, and I almost prided myself on being that guy who pointed out how fucking stupid everything was. My father told me before I joined the military that I needed to control my "fuck you" face- instead, I perfected that face and wore it in perpetuity. Needless to say, my peers and instructors didn't like me all that much. The instructors never would have counted on me for anything and, when we rotated through course leadership positions, they gave me the most irrelevant ones just so they could check the necessary boxes and move me along. We did peer evals, and if I ever peeked at someone else's, they'd compliment me on things like intellect, and then place me at the very bottom of the group being evaluated. Why the fuck was that, I thought. Why would you shit on the smart guy?

Oh, right. Because I was an asshole.

In the middle of August of this year, now 32, I was sent to a mandatory professional development course for my current rank. My intellect is about the same as it was a decade ago, and my physicality has decreased slightly- I'm building my old man strength, but I'm a little slower and fatter than before. But that all pales in comparison to my attitude. I simply decided that things were going to be different this time and so they were. I cheered on my classmates during the run on the fitness test, even though I was also running it myself. I volunteered for the primary leadership position in this course and got it. The instructor called me after hours to tell me about peers who were struggling and to make sure I got them the necessary assistance. One graded item for the course was known as professional officer quality and our grade in that category needed to average out to 85% across all students. Nine years ago I would have made it super easy for the grader, because I would have gotten a fucking ZERO. This time, I got 100%. Even though I passed my main event on the first day of evals (it's an hour long brief you have to give, so evals are scheduled over several days), I volunteered my free time to listen to other people rehearse their own briefs, staying up with one guy until 1 in the morning.

This isn't to brag- it's just to point out that by far and away the biggest factor in how you are perceived in any organization is your attitude. A bad one will destroy you, but a good one will advance you farther than you can imagine. It's also the easiest to control- if I showed up out of shape, it might have taken me weeks or months to get to where I needed to be. If I was unfamiliar with the fundamentals, it'd take some significant studying to get caught up. But attitude? That was a snap decision, and soon as I set my mind to it, it was done.

This applies to the military, to school, to sports (yeah yeah, without complicating this too much, talent does apply here- but if Moncada and Robert can both hit the shit out of a baseball, the one who has a better attitude and pours more of their heart into practice is going to, generally, hit more of the shit out of more of the baseballs), to business, to jobs, to wherever.

More than any other single thing- have a positive attitude.

 

Subsequently, if that shit attitude is combined with a terrible work ethic, you're done. Me, I'll complain every now and again about work and I've certainly aced the idea of pointing out the flaws in others, but I can fake it with the best of them and I come to work every day to work. I don't come to talk and be friends with coworkers or even clients. I come to work. My parents both had good jobs on the surface in terms of risk and safety but they did them in extremely tough work environments. What I do for a living is very white collar but I put everything I have into it and I know not to b**** profusely because of what I saw how hard working my parents were despite the shitty surroundings that they had.

From reading Jack's posts, particularly in this subforum in many topics but particularly this one, it's not like he's picky on the job offered but he hates to take order no matter how simplistic. That's life, dude. If you were hard enough and forget about the fact that you're taking "orders," you'll soon be in their shoes bossing people around and likely taking less verbal abuse.

Edited by soxfan49

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2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Subsequently, if that shit attitude is combined with a terrible work ethic, you're done. Me, I'll complain every now and again about work and I've certainly aced the idea of pointing out the flaws in others, but I can fake it with the best of them and I come to work every day to work. I don't come to talk and be friends with coworkers or even clients. I come to work. My parents both had good jobs on the surface in terms of risk and safety but they did them in extremely tough work environments. What I do for a living is very white collar but I put everything I have into it and I know not to b**** profusely because of what I saw how hard working my parents were despite the shitty surroundings that they had.

Good point. I was kind of combining the two qualities and some of my examples are probably more work ethic than attitude. But work ethic is similar to attitude in how easily it is controlled. You might add weight quicker than me and naturally run slower or do less sit-ups, or your mind might not be as agile, but you’re not lazier than me for any reason other than your own choice. You could decide today that you’ll be the hardest working person in your office tomorrow and then you could go and do it. It’s that easy and it’ll change your entire life.

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35 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Subsequently, if that shit attitude is combined with a terrible work ethic, you're done. Me, I'll complain every now and again about work and I've certainly aced the idea of pointing out the flaws in others, but I can fake it with the best of them and I come to work every day to work. I don't come to talk and be friends with coworkers or even clients. I come to work. My parents both had good jobs on the surface in terms of risk and safety but they did them in extremely tough work environments. What I do for a living is very white collar but I put everything I have into it and I know not to b**** profusely because of what I saw how hard working my parents were despite the shitty surroundings that they had.

From reading Jack's posts, particularly in this subforum in many topics but particularly this one, it's not like he's picky on the job offered but he hates to take order no matter how simplistic. That's life, dude. If you were hard enough and forget about the fact that you're taking "orders," you'll soon be in their shoes bossing people around and likely taking less verbal abuse.

You nailed it. I'm a control freak and like to be in control of everything. I like to do things my way, mostly because if I don't it makes it exponentially more difficult do complete my task/project. 

I've always had an authority issue. It took me a very long time to acknowledge that not everyone else is a complete moron. Now I like to surround myself with people who aren't morons. My standards are pretty high there. I don't get along with people who ignore concrete evidence and data about best practices. I like quantitative data. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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26 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You nailed it. I'm a control freak and like to be in control of everything. I like to do things my way, mostly because if I don't it makes it exponentially more difficult do complete my task/project. 

I've always had an authority issue. It took me a very long time to acknowledge that not everyone else is a complete moron. Now I like to surround myself with people who aren't morons. My standards are pretty high there. I don't get along with people who ignore concrete evidence and data about best practices. I like quantitative data. 

I have to say I will never get tired of Jack Parkman musings about life. I don't agree with most, if any, of them, but they are always entertaining.

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On 6/28/2019 at 12:13 AM, Jack Parkman said:

This is how I roll: 

Every job is broken down into tasks and subtasks, and with the completion of each task there is a quantitative level of progress attached. 

Upon being hired, the tasks required for advancement are clearly defined. 

If you complete goals X, Y, and Z, you get A dollars. 

If you go above and beyond that, for X time frame, you get promoted/ a raise and extra responsibility. 

 

On 9/2/2019 at 4:30 AM, Jack Parkman said:

So I was watching a video from my favorite capitalist, Nick Hanauer. He had a quote in the video where he said "Ambition in the absence of opportunity creates anger and resentment." That fits me to a tee. I've always been ambitious, probably to a fault. I realize the sacrifices necessary to get to where you want to go in life, and have made the sacrifices with zero opportunity. As long as I'm making progress, and seeing the fruits of my labor I'll work as hard or harder than anyone. If progress stalls, I'll seek new opportunities. The issue comes when you're never getting those opportunities. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and realized that my blind ambition has gotten in the way a lot. I always want more quickly. One of the things I had was an unrealistic expectation of how quickly you are able to advance or take on new tasks and responsibilities at work. I need a more clearly defined timeframe and and career development path.

One of the things I've decided is to go into my next job(whatever it may be) and just do my absolute best at what they ask me to do, don't attempt to read between the lines and let my work speak for itself. Try to learn the lay of the land before trying to show how ambitious I am. Maybe, just maybe my blind ambition was seen more as a threat than a positive trait. And also, if you're bored for a while that's to be expected for the first 12-18 months or so. Suck it up and deal with it. A lot of my clashes with my bosses came from unrealistic expectations on my part about how much and when I could gain more responsibility and new projects when I got bored, instead of realizing that that the groundwork wasn't laid for my long term success yet.

I'm really trying to square these two very different posts, Jack. On one hand, you seem to need a heavy amount of supervision to function, whether it's clearly defined goals set in advance or 1-to-1 meetings with your boss, or whatever. On the other hand, you expect more and more responsibility and are disappointed when you don't get it.

Responsibility requires autonomy. If you need checkups and timelines and supervision, that's fine, but you're not going to move up much. Managers need to not only manage other people, but also themselves. Nobody holds my hand or checks in on me throughout the day- my boss is 400 miles away. They can rest easy because they know that I understand the mission and will get it done. If you need meetings to make sure you're prioritizing the right things and using your time effectively, nobody is going to empower you with more duties and responsibilities.

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21 minutes ago, The Sir said:

 

I'm really trying to square these two very different posts, Jack. On one hand, you seem to need a heavy amount of supervision to function, whether it's clearly defined goals set in advance or 1-to-1 meetings with your boss, or whatever. On the other hand, you expect more and more responsibility and are disappointed when you don't get it.

Responsibility requires autonomy. If you need checkups and timelines and supervision, that's fine, but you're not going to move up much. Managers need to not only manage other people, but also themselves. Nobody holds my hand or checks in on me throughout the day- my boss is 400 miles away. They can rest easy because they know that I understand the mission and will get it done. If you need meetings to make sure you're prioritizing the right things and using your time effectively, nobody is going to empower you with more duties and responsibilities.

At this point, I really don't care about career advancement, it's all about survival. I just want to get in somewhere and keep a job. That's all. I used to, but I never realized how much of a PITA I can be so I really don't expect it anymore. 

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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

At this point, I really don't care about career advancement, it's all about survival. I just want to get in somewhere and keep a job. That's all. I used to, but I never realized how much of a PITA I can be so I really don't expect it anymore. 

Jack, how long have you been out of work? What jobs have you applied to recently? What jobs are you targeting?

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