**SPOILER THREAD** GAME OF THRONES ** SPOILER THREAD **

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah, I'm not entirely clear on the strategy with Cersei. Like, they need a cease fire so Dany + dragons can look North, but Dany could just do what Stannis did and, you know, go North. An actual battle with the army of the dead doesn't work unless and until you get to the Night King. Right now, any losses by the army of dead are offset by any losses in life on the side of men being raised as wights. What value does Cersei bring to the table (other than maybe the mad genius of Qyburn?).

I think she is asking for a truce...not necessarily joining of the armies.

[Chisoxfn]

My thought here is simply by leaving a dead body lying around, you give the White Walkers a chance to come reanimate the body. By burning the body, there will be nothing left to reanimate, so to speak.

That makes total sense. I was asking myself that last night and didn't have an answer.

[Soxbadger]

Army of the dead are basically orcs. Main characters can kill hundreds, but eventually the numbers overwhelm them.

[Chisoxfn]

Maybe someone already mentioned this but the army of dead doesn't seem very scary anymore. Jon and his 5 or 6 friends literally killed a few hundred of them without suffering a single casualty. I guess you can count Benjen although those were odd circumstances. Still scratching my head as to why he didn't jump on the horse as well.

I don't know...they killed the weaker footsoldiers with a strong hold position. The white walkers obliterated a dragon and Dany is going to have to think twice to bring dragons back. They have mass numbers...they are not necessarily expert fighters.

[ZoomSlowik]

As others have said, I think they really could have used another season. The pacing and timelines are a mess, they needed some space for background info to even things out. There were multiple episodes of build up to things like Blackwater and The Red Wedding so things were fleshed out better. Even season 4 where there was a ton of major events, things weren't rushed.

 

 

[Southwest Sider]

Why can everyone else travel from one side of the continent and back in the same time it's taking the Night King to march from Hardhome. He's got to go about 1/50th of the distance.

 

He was waiting for his dragon.

[Soxbadger]

As others have said, I think they really could have used another season. The pacing and timelines are a mess, they needed some space for background info to even things out. There were multiple episodes of build up to things like Blackwater and The Red Wedding so things were fleshed out better. Even season 4 where there was a ton of major events, things weren't rushed.

 

My uneducated guess is that contracts became problematic.

[illinilaw08]

As others have said, I think they really could have used another season. The pacing and timelines are a mess, they needed some space for background info to even things out. There were multiple episodes of build up to things like Blackwater and The Red Wedding so things were fleshed out better. Even season 4 where there was a ton of major events, things weren't rushed.

 

To me, it reads like the writer's room starts with an idea for an epic moment (what if the Night King kills a dragon!) and then works backward to figure out how to get there. Feels like HBO got so much press out of IS JON SNOW DEAD that they are now prioritizing the headline grabbing moments over narrative consistency.

 

The big moments are great. Some of the small moments are still great (I enjoyed the conversations between the magnificent seven). But we're clearly watching a blockbuster now, and it has been at the expense of the narrative.

[bmags]

Bran/Sam, which weren't good storylines to begin with, should be paying off now. But they didn't have time so they became unbearable.

 

The 3-eyed raven could not be more insignificant.

[bigruss]

Maybe someone already mentioned this but the army of dead doesn't seem very scary anymore. Jon and his 5 or 6 friends literally killed a few hundred of them without suffering a single casualty. I guess you can count Benjen although those were odd circumstances. Still scratching my head as to why he didn't jump on the horse as well.

Well the army of the dead aren't the best fighters, but the relentlessness of them is their scary part. And these same fighters did the same to living normal soldiers as well, so kind of expected. The scary part is that they can revive the fallen soldiers and keep coming at you, which almost makes a larger army more susceptible to the white walkers.

[Jenksismyhero]

The books are long and well thought out. The big moments are earned. For the most part, the show stuck to a lot of that character/world building in the beginning. Now they don't have that same road map. They've been given a few big moments from Martin (like the origin of Hodor) and were left to figure it out themselves. So far I think we've discovered that (1) it's difficult to finish off a really good book series on TV, especially in a small amount of time, and (2) the main writers aren't as good as Martin.

 

I'm shocked someone at HBO or even Martin didn't step in and fight the writers on this Ocean's Eleven wight theft idea. It is so unbelievably stupid. They better have an amazing finale to make up for it.

Edited August 22, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[Chisoxfn]

Bran/Sam, which weren't good storylines to begin with, should be paying off now. But they didn't have time so they became unbearable.

 

The 3-eyed raven could not be more insignificant.

Honestly...I don't like the 3 eyed raven story. I'd have been fine without it...although I presume there is more of the story still to tell. There were good parts, such as hodor and other information that came out because of him. All these critiques aside, I love the show.

[bmags]

Honestly...I don't like the 3 eyed raven story. I'd have been fine without it...although I presume there is more of the story still to tell. There were good parts, such as hodor and other information that came out because of him. All these critiques aside, I love the show.

 

I came to respect it because I hated it, but they kept putting in the time and last season I thought it was pretty good. Then, you expect it to pay off when he reunites with people whom his valuable information could help, and instead we get "I see things, lots of them, you once said this, I must go back now thanks"

[ZoomSlowik]

My uneducated guess is that contracts became problematic.

Probably part of it. You can't count on everyone to stay on forever. Pretty nice paycheck for the top people though.

[bmags]

This was helpful to me because I had zero clue why she sent off Brienne (possible reading is it was to avoid her being used against her sister:

 

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2...-jon-arya-sansa

 

K. With that out of the way, there is no evidence anywhere that Faceless Men can steal faces from a living subject. The “non-dead face swap” is not a thing. That doesn’t mean that the show won’t make it a thing. The scene in which Littlefinger tries to convince Sansa to use Brienne against Arya is strange. There’s none of the usual Littlefinger reaction shots, and he doesn’t say anything particularly insightful or, interestingly, anything that Arya wouldn’t know. It’s almost as if the show is trying to set up the suspicion that Arya is posing as Littlefinger in an attempt to get her to admit to betraying—or wanting to betray—Jon. And when Sansa (foolishly!) sends Brienne south, under this reading of the scene that would mean she “passed” Arya’s test, thus allowing the sisters to team up and take down Littlefinger. Again, there is no indication that “non-dead face swapping” is possible. But, man, weird scene.

[Jenksismyhero]

This was helpful to me because I had zero clue why she sent off Brienne (possible reading is it was to avoid her being used against her sister:

 

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2...-jon-arya-sansa

 

I thought she said she didn't want to go to back to King's Landing (seems fair) so she was sending Brienne as her proxy? Is that not the case?

[StrangeSox]

I came to respect it because I hated it, but they kept putting in the time and last season I thought it was pretty good. Then, you expect it to pay off when he reunites with people whom his valuable information could help, and instead we get "I see things, lots of them, you once said this, I must go back now thanks"

 

don't forget the creepiest part, "hey sis I watched you get raped, you were so beautiful that night"

[bmags]

I thought she said she didn't want to go to back to King's Landing (seems fair) so she was sending Brienne as her proxy? Is that not the case?

 

Right, but when I watched I was like "why send anyone?". They were at open war with Cersei, why would she take that invite without any word from John?

 

And she could have easily sent someone else on her behalf.

[Soxbadger]

I thought she said she didn't want to go to back to King's Landing (seems fair) so she was sending Brienne as her proxy? Is that not the case?

 

That is what Sansa said, I think it was something like shes not going to King's Landing to be a Lannister prisoner.

 

A lot of it was kind of jumbled because prior it seemed like Sansa was going to use Brienne as protection against Arya.

 

(edit)

 

Also Im pretty sure the 3 eyed raven story is how Jon finds out he is a Targaryen. Because Bran said something like "I need to talk to Jon." Maybe to Bran that is really the only relevant issue, everything else is just noise.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

Right, but when I watched I was like "why send anyone?". They were at open war with Cersei, why would she take that invite without any word from John?

 

And she could have easily sent someone else on her behalf.

 

I have to believe that Jon has communicated his plan to go north of the wall and get the wight to her at some point. Even if he didn't, that explanation would have been provided in the invite to the summit with Cersei since that's the whole point - come see proof of the army that we all must defeat. She'd be pretty negligent in her duties as Queen of the North if she doesn't at least attend a meeting to discuss a possible coalition to defeat an army that is so close to her territory.

 

And she needs to send someone she can trust. I don't buy that she can't trust Littlefinger (with her life anyway). He's had several opportunities to kill her if he wanted to and hasn't. He had no obligation to bring the knights of the Vale to save her and Jon and win back Winterfell. And I think she's still surrended by northern bannerman. Littlefinger would be foolish to kill her at this point.

 

I dunno, I don't see a problem there.

[Jenksismyhero]

That is what Sansa said, I think it was something like shes not going to King's Landing to be a Lannister prisoner.

 

A lot of it was kind of jumbled because prior it seemed like Sansa was going to use Brienne as protection against Arya.

 

(edit)

 

Also Im pretty sure the 3 eyed raven story is how Jon finds out he is a Targaryen. Because Bran said something like "I need to talk to Jon." Maybe to Bran that is really the only relevant issue, everything else is just noise.

 

Which is so dumb because didn't Bran already send a raven to Jon? He could have told Jon in that first communication.

[Soxbadger]

Which is so dumb because didn't Bran already send a raven to Jon? He could have told Jon in that first communication.

 

Its hard to tell. If Bran can see the future, maybe he knows he cant send the raven. Or maybe he has some concern that someone may read the message and the information is too important.

[illinilaw08]

I have to believe that Jon has communicated his plan to go north of the wall and get the wight to her at some point. Even if he didn't, that explanation would have been provided in the invite to the summit with Cersei since that's the whole point - come see proof of the army that we all must defeat. She'd be pretty negligent in her duties as Queen of the North if she doesn't at least attend a meeting to discuss a possible coalition to defeat an army that is so close to her territory.

 

And she needs to send someone she can trust. I don't buy that she can't trust Littlefinger (with her life anyway). He's had several opportunities to kill her if he wanted to and hasn't. He had no obligation to bring the knights of the Vale to save her and Jon and win back Winterfell. And I think she's still surrended by northern bannerman. Littlefinger would be foolish to kill her at this point.

 

I dunno, I don't see a problem there.

 

Sansa said she hadn't heard from Jon in weeks. So that, to me, meant he hadn't communicated his terrible plan to her.

 

Sansa sent Brienne away after Arya started coming at her, and after Baelish said, "hey maybe Brienne could help you with Arya." There are literally any number of Northern lords that could have gone to this summit. Sansa sending her bodyguard away as her proxy makes absolutely no sense.

[illinilaw08]

That is what Sansa said, I think it was something like shes not going to King's Landing to be a Lannister prisoner.

 

A lot of it was kind of jumbled because prior it seemed like Sansa was going to use Brienne as protection against Arya.

 

(edit)

 

Also Im pretty sure the 3 eyed raven story is how Jon finds out he is a Targaryen. Because Bran said something like "I need to talk to Jon." Maybe to Bran that is really the only relevant issue, everything else is just noise.

 

I have a pretty hard time understanding why the fact that Jon is a Targ is all that important in the war with the Night King. Other than the fact that we all assume it means Jon can ride a dragon, unless there is some unknown mythology re: Targ + Stark means you can kill the Night King, Jon's parentage means a lot more to succession than anything to do with winning the war. I assume that Bran has to have a much more important role to play than that...

[Soxbadger]

I have a pretty hard time understanding why the fact that Jon is a Targ is all that important in the war with the Night King. Other than the fact that we all assume it means Jon can ride a dragon, unless there is some unknown mythology re: Targ + Stark means you can kill the Night King, Jon's parentage means a lot more to succession than anything to do with winning the war. I assume that Bran has to have a much more important role to play than that...

 

I think it may have something to do with the whole "Targ's are dragons/special powers." Dany cant be burnt, her brother could be. Jon has been resurrected/etc, so maybe he is the "Dragon" or the "Prince who was promised" or some other mythology that is either unknown or has been lost in time.

 

And while secession isnt "super" important, it could help in terms of getting other banner men to join if the Cersei thing doesnt work.