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TaylorStSox

**SPOILER THREAD** GAME OF THRONES ** SPOILER THREAD **

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 29, 2016 -> 09:07 PM)
Ding

Yeah, in the "inside the episode" one of the showrunners even called him "Coldhands Benjen."

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Coldhands/flashbacks were cool.

 

The rest of the episode was a bit weak imo. The Dany part didn't really seem necessary to me.

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The last Dany scene was so lame. Played up to be some big shock/reveal and it was just the opposite. To end the episode on that was dumb. I think the whole reception of the episode (which I have seen as overly negative) would be a lot better had they moved that scene up and ended it on one of the plenty of noteworthy things to happen (Benjin returning, Arya leaving, Faith/Crown merger). Instead people are just talking about how awful her storyline is again.

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I've said for a while I can't stand Dany. Too holy, but the episode had a lot of cool moments, just as a lot of you have said an awful end. Than again, there was a lot of cool Stark storylines and I like the Starks.

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The book readers have been waiting a long time for Dany to get off of her ass and do something, and finally she is. So I actually loved that part. The timelines are so screwed up though in the show compared to how they were in the book. Its real confusing that we almost seem to be jumping back in time for some of this stuff.

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So does Arya defeat the faceless girl person and is granted her freedom or does she then join the faceless men?

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 30, 2016 -> 03:27 PM)
I've said for a while I can't stand Dany. Too holy, but the episode had a lot of cool moments, just as a lot of you have said an awful end. Than again, there was a lot of cool Stark storylines and I like the Starks.

 

They've replaced Dany boring us to death in Meereen with her boring us to death in the desert. If she didn't have a dragon, she'd be the most boring character in the show.

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 31, 2016 -> 01:52 PM)
So does Arya defeat the faceless girl person and is granted her freedom or does she then join the faceless men?

 

She leaves. Jaqen can't give her ANOTHER chance. She's already made a kill she wasn't supposed to make, and now walked away from one she was supposed to make. They will part ways amicably though, as the Waif's death is an acceptable substitute for Arya.

 

No clue where she goes though.

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 31, 2016 -> 08:52 AM)
So does Arya defeat the faceless girl person and is granted her freedom or does she then join the faceless men?

 

I think she will be running from them for the rest of her life. That's the impression I got from Benioff and Weiss in their episode summary. Queue up the terrible, tragic death in 12 episodes.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ May 31, 2016 -> 08:17 AM)
I think she will be running from them for the rest of her life. That's the impression I got from Benioff and Weiss in their episode summary. Queue up the terrible, tragic death in 12 episodes.

 

For as much time as Martin and the show have spent on Arya, that would be such an annoyingly, terrible, ending to her arc. Also, has Arya picked up any real skills in the show? She's a better (but not good enough) liar, she's a better (but not good enough) fighter, and her sneaking skills aren't great (based on the fact that the actress she was supposed to kill noticed Arya was at a ton of their performances).

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2 things: The Dany scene was important because she's embracing being a conqueror and finally actively leaving Essos.

 

I actually think the Waif is the one that failed the test. Arya can pay for the life spared with the Waif's life.

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 31, 2016 -> 09:48 AM)
For as much time as Martin and the show have spent on Arya, that would be such an annoyingly, terrible, ending to her arc. Also, has Arya picked up any real skills in the show? She's a better (but not good enough) liar, she's a better (but not good enough) fighter, and her sneaking skills aren't great (based on the fact that the actress she was supposed to kill noticed Arya was at a ton of their performances).

Were you expecting her to be some bad ass ninja in a year? Obviously her skills have progressed. We'll have to wait to see how much.

 

It's amazing to me how much some viewers need everything spelled out for them.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 31, 2016 -> 09:52 AM)
2 things: The Dany scene was important because she's embracing being a conqueror and finally actively leaving Essos.

 

I actually think the Waif is the one that failed the test. Arya can pay for the life spared with the Waif's life.

 

What test did the Waif have?

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ May 31, 2016 -> 10:08 AM)
What test did the Waif have?

Anger and resentment. Its not the FM way. If Arya kills the Waif and brings the body to the House of Black and White she fulfills the need for a death. Iirc, the Kindly Man just said one way or another, another face will be added to the wall.

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 31, 2016 -> 09:48 AM)
For as much time as Martin and the show have spent on Arya, that would be such an annoyingly, terrible, ending to her arc. Also, has Arya picked up any real skills in the show? She's a better (but not good enough) liar, she's a better (but not good enough) fighter, and her sneaking skills aren't great (based on the fact that the actress she was supposed to kill noticed Arya was at a ton of their performances).

In the show, not really. But I think the show is using it as her "training montage"

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So Benjen...are we supposed to believe that he is the same and the CotF healed him or is he also now some sort of supernatural being? GRRM has specifically stated in the past that Benjen is NOT Coldhands, so it would kind of irk me if the show actually calls him that at some point.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 31, 2016 -> 10:52 AM)
2 things: The Dany scene was important because she's embracing being a conqueror and finally actively leaving Essos.

 

I'm glad she's finally vocalizing that she's totally unfit to rule and will be totally useless once the conquering is done. Maybe after she abandons Mereen to go conquer Westeros she'll fly her saggy ass back to Slaver's Bay to conquer it again. Just bouncing back and forth conquering forever like a poop going from one butthole back into another.

 

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 31, 2016 -> 11:47 AM)
So Benjen...are we supposed to believe that he is the same and the CotF healed him or is he also now some sort of supernatural being? GRRM has specifically stated in the past that Benjen is NOT Coldhands, so it would kind of irk me if the show actually calls him that at some point.

 

I don't think Benjen is Cold Hands in the books just like the 3EC in the show isn't Brynden Rivers and The Night's King is a whole separate entity not that White Walker who gets the most close ups. A lot of this stuff is just flattened for convenience/TV audiences. Benjen will still have a role to play in the books, but I expect he's dead and he'll only be relevant in Bran's visions (maybe retracing the source of that cache of obsidian/the horn).

Edited by Nixon

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QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 31, 2016 -> 10:47 AM)
So Benjen...are we supposed to believe that he is the same and the CotF healed him or is he also now some sort of supernatural being? GRRM has specifically stated in the past that Benjen is NOT Coldhands, so it would kind of irk me if the show actually calls him that at some point.

GRRM says a lot of things that are complete bs. He's a bit of a troll. He also claims LSH isn't Cat.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 31, 2016 -> 08:56 AM)
Were you expecting her to be some bad ass ninja in a year? Obviously her skills have progressed. We'll have to wait to see how much.

 

It's amazing to me how much some viewers need everything spelled out for them.

 

Other than bowstaff training (while blind), and practicing lying, what training has Arya gotten in the show? Her entire arc with the Faceless Men has been open defiance (killing Trant, not killing the actress) without any forward momentum. Arya is clearly an important character to the end game, and her time with the Faceless Men is important to her arc - otherwise Martin and the show wouldn't have devoted so much time to her. I'm not sure what she's learned in the show that makes her important going forward.

 

But I agree, Arya's arc could have used a time jump...

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 31, 2016 -> 11:09 AM)
Other than bowstaff training (while blind), and practicing lying, what training has Arya gotten in the show? Her entire arc with the Faceless Men has been open defiance (killing Trant, not killing the actress) without any forward momentum. Arya is clearly an important character to the end game, and her time with the Faceless Men is important to her arc - otherwise Martin and the show wouldn't have devoted so much time to her. I'm not sure what she's learned in the show that makes her important going forward.

 

But I agree, Arya's arc could have used a time jump...

She's learned something I've had the impression the Kindly Man always knew, she is a Stark and the North remembers.

 

Were people questioning why she didn't suddenly become a bad ass swordsman when she trained with Syrio?

 

Her wholee arc is about her trying to suppress who she truly is and what she's learned from it. This goes back to her time at Winterfell and her time as Arry.

Edited by TaylorStSox

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 31, 2016 -> 10:16 AM)
She's learned something I've had the impression the Kindly Man always knew, she is a Stark and the North remembers.

 

Were people questioning why she didn't suddenly become a bad ass swordsman when she trained with Syrio?

 

Her wholee arc is about her trying to suppress who she truly is and what she's learned from it. This goes back to her time at Winterfell and her time as Arry.

 

I get that. But in the show, has she ever really suppressed how she is with the Faceless Men? She's said she's no one a whole bunch, but she killed Trant and couldn't keep a straight face during the 7 Kingdoms show.

 

Syrio isn't an apt comparison. She trained with Syrio for practically no time. That's entirely different than her spending two seasons with the Faceless Men. We're led to believe that Bran can become the 3ER in that time. During Arya's time with the Faceless Men in the show, she's scrubbed a bunch of floors, got beaten up a lot, and learned to fight with a bowstaff while blind. I always assumed that Arya was going to be a lot, lot deeper with the Faceless Men before she had the moment where she had to face whether she's a Faceless Man or a Stark. Not wanting to kill a nice lady actress seems like a cheap way to have Arya reach that reckoning because the show never conveyed that she had really given up being a Stark in the first place.

 

Simply put, what has changed between the end of last season when she killed Trant instead of that merchant and now with Arya? Seems like at the end of last season, when put to the test, she chose being a Stark over a Faceless Man. Where has their been development in Arya's arc this season...

 

 

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 31, 2016 -> 11:38 AM)
I get that. But in the show, has she ever really suppressed how she is with the Faceless Men? She's said she's no one a whole bunch, but she killed Trant and couldn't keep a straight face during the 7 Kingdoms show.

 

Syrio isn't an apt comparison. She trained with Syrio for practically no time. That's entirely different than her spending two seasons with the Faceless Men. We're led to believe that Bran can become the 3ER in that time. During Arya's time with the Faceless Men in the show, she's scrubbed a bunch of floors, got beaten up a lot, and learned to fight with a bowstaff while blind. I always assumed that Arya was going to be a lot, lot deeper with the Faceless Men before she had the moment where she had to face whether she's a Faceless Man or a Stark. Not wanting to kill a nice lady actress seems like a cheap way to have Arya reach that reckoning because the show never conveyed that she had really given up being a Stark in the first place.

 

Simply put, what has changed between the end of last season when she killed Trant instead of that merchant and now with Arya? Seems like at the end of last season, when put to the test, she chose being a Stark over a Faceless Man. Where has their been development in Arya's arc this season...

They obviously had to truncate her storyline alot in the show, it was much more interesting in the book. It must be not that important in the grand scheme of things.

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 31, 2016 -> 11:38 AM)
I get that. But in the show, has she ever really suppressed how she is with the Faceless Men? She's said she's no one a whole bunch, but she killed Trant and couldn't keep a straight face during the 7 Kingdoms show.

 

Syrio isn't an apt comparison. She trained with Syrio for practically no time. That's entirely different than her spending two seasons with the Faceless Men. We're led to believe that Bran can become the 3ER in that time. During Arya's time with the Faceless Men in the show, she's scrubbed a bunch of floors, got beaten up a lot, and learned to fight with a bowstaff while blind. I always assumed that Arya was going to be a lot, lot deeper with the Faceless Men before she had the moment where she had to face whether she's a Faceless Man or a Stark. Not wanting to kill a nice lady actress seems like a cheap way to have Arya reach that reckoning because the show never conveyed that she had really given up being a Stark in the first place.

 

Simply put, what has changed between the end of last season when she killed Trant instead of that merchant and now with Arya? Seems like at the end of last season, when put to the test, she chose being a Stark over a Faceless Man. Where has their been development in Arya's arc this season...

The point is that she hasn't changed. She's tried to force herself to be no one and she cant. As far as a reckoning, we still don't know that. There really isn't much to her story in the source material either. They probably wanted to keep her in the show, but had to wait for the rest of the story to catch up.

 

It's made clear Bran wasn't ready to be the 3ER, but there is literally no choice. There was even a line about that. We were never led to believe he was ready.

Edited by TaylorStSox

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I thought McShane had a bigger character role. Good episode though, I really enjoyed it

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