chitownsportsfan Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) The hitting coach is former Athletic, Todd Steverson. He was widely praised last year. It's not a coaching thing with this quad I think -- I think it's a leadership void mostly. The locker room has zero strong personalities and they lack leadership from the manager. Gardenhire would work fine the more I think about it. Just get someone that's won a little in here and see what happens. Nobody can look at Robin and think "this a guy that has managed some big games". At least Gardenhire has done that. For all the losing at the end Gardenhire is .507 for his career. FWIW, that's miles ahead of Robin. Edited May 3, 2015 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Six division championships merits respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2015 -> 11:36 PM) Six division championships merits respect. I agree. He can look guys in the eye, talk about winning, and winning pretty big, and they have to respect it. Not that it means much, but it's more than what RV brings. They got nothing to lose by changing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 And the right way to play and prepare...despite his lack of playoff success, every Sox fan would be elated just to get back again. Or at least play important games in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 3, 2015 -> 05:28 AM) The hitting coach is former Athletic, Todd Steverson. He was widely praised last year. It's not a coaching thing with this quad I think -- I think it's a leadership void mostly. The locker room has zero strong personalities and they lack leadership from the manager. Gardenhire would work fine the more I think about it. Just get someone that's won a little in here and see what happens. Nobody can look at Robin and think "this a guy that has managed some big games". At least Gardenhire has done that. For all the losing at the end Gardenhire is .507 for his career. FWIW, that's miles ahead of Robin. Somebody pointed out the Sox road win percentage is something like .333 in a significant amount of games. Team loses series after series and yes we were told in the offseason this team should contend for playoffs. Robin said it; Hahn said it; everybody said it. No way Robin's gonna get axed this early but like I said, he should be fired if Minnie completes the sweep Sunday. That's flat out sickening and embarrassing. All the money paid to these guys and they can't beat Minnie one of four? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 2, 2015 -> 10:46 PM) It was average last year and they improved at most positions, even factoring in regression from Jose and even Eaton. That it's been league worst so far this year is just completely inexplicable IMO. Like rolling a dice and getting snake eyes 3 times in a row. In fact, it's so variant that I think some of it lies with lack of mental preparation and readiness stemming from Robin's poor leadership. I think a major part of the problem is guys are clearly pressing. I don't like blaming a manager for his players' struggles, but when it's widespread across the lineup and for an extended period of time, you really have no other choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) One of the biggest problems with this offense is Adam La Roche. You all know how important I thought it was to have a left handed power bat, sandwiched between Abreu and Garcia. La Roche is likely not going to be the answer. It's interesting to note that he is exactly the same age as Dunn, and that Adam has already retired. At least when Dunn joined the Sox he was, 4 years younger than La Roche, coming off a pretty decent year; 36 doubles, 38 homers and 103 RBI's. La Roche has already declined significantly, the last 2 years, vs. LHP. He now looks like he doesn't hit RHP too well either. He leads the League in strike outs; an incredible 30 in 74 at bats!! He should never start against a lefty, and he probably isn't good enough to fill that slot between Abreu and Garcia. Let's face it; he was a poor choice. Let's just hope that he is the last left handed DH/first baseman, from the Nats, named Adam, whom the Sox ever sign. If someone wants him, he is the first guy that I would like to see gone, in the "fire sale", which may have to occur. I'd bat Melky in his spot vs. RHP, and give the DH role to whomever. I'm already looking ahead to 2016, and I hope that in the off season, Hahn can finally find that left handed, power bat, they need. Edited May 3, 2015 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 3, 2015 -> 07:39 AM) One of the biggest problems with this offense is Adam La Roche. You all know how important I thought it was to have a left handed power bat, sandwiched between Abreu and Garcia. La Roche is likely not going to be the answer. It's interesting to note that he is exactly the same age as Dunn, and that Adam has already retired. At least when Dunn joined the Sox he was, 4 years younger than La Roche, coming off a pretty decent year; 36 doubles, 38 homers and 103 RBI's. La Roche has already declined significantly, the last 2 years, vs. LHP. He now looks like he doesn't hit RHP too well either. He leads the League in strike outs; an incredible 30 in 74 at bats!! He should never start against a lefty, and he probably isn't good enough to fill that slot between Abreu and Garcia. Let's face it; he was a poor choice. Let's just hope that he is the last left handed DH/first baseman, from the Nats, named Adam, whom the Sox ever sign. If someone wants him, he is the first guy that I would like to see gone, in the "fire sale", which may have to occur. I'd bat Melky in his spot vs. RHP, and give the DH role to whomever. I'm already looktieing ahead to 2016, and I hope that in the off season, Hahn can finally find that left handed, power bat, they need. No one wants La Roche. His results were predictable, just not quite this bad. Still, Robin plays him, bats him in the clean-up slot, then pinch hits Flowers for him late in game with the game on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I'd settle for a salary dump with La Roche, wouldn't you? If he's not off the books, how can the Sox pursue someone to take his place, for next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 3, 2015 -> 07:50 AM) I'd settle for a salary dump with La Roche, wouldn't you? If he's not off the books, how can the Sox pursue someone to take his place, for next year? Welcome to Dan Black/Miguel Montero as your DH. Since Wilkins and Viciedo are already gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 3, 2015 -> 07:58 AM) Welcome to Dan Black/Miguel Montero as your DH. Since Wilkins and Viciedo are already gone. I'm less concerned about who takes his place this season than I am about clearing his salary off the books, so that Hahn can sign someone else, this off season. They sure as hell better not head into 2016 with La Roche as the clean up hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I think Sox fans need to slow down a bit here. Its difficult to get any kind of rhythm going when the team starts the season having a beanball war with KC, then cold ass whether, riots in Baltimore, rain outs and then there's LA Roche and Ramirez whom are notoriously slow starters. Really not trying to make excuses, just willing to wait a bit longer to see if the team can get a rhythm going before pulling the plug. It really is early yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Phil Rogers @philgrogers 2h2 hours ago What's wrong w/White Sox? Among many issues, they've gone 8 games w/o a HR for first time since 2010; haven't had longer streak since '89. The last White Sox HR was hit on April 22 by Jose Abreu; Astros have hit 22 since then, including 5 by Evan Gattis. Jose Abreu hit 5 HRs in his first 52 ABs, the last one off Corey Kluber. He is homeless in last 32 ABs entering tonight's game vs. Tigers. Melky Cabrera (0-87), Alexei Ramirez (0-78), Conor Gillaspie (0-56), Avisail Garcia (1-79) and Tyler Flowers (1-46) -- 2 homers, 346 ABs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Dan Hirsch @DanHirsch 5m5 minutes ago #White Sox have also made 14 outs on the bases (2nd most in MLB). @fangraphs has them at -4.1 runs via Ultimate Base Running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 makes me nauseous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 5, 2015 -> 01:04 PM) Dan Hirsch @DanHirsch 5m5 minutes ago #White Sox have also made 14 outs on the bases (2nd most in MLB). @fangraphs has them at -4.1 runs via Ultimate Base Running Most of them are stupid, but at least a couple have probably been the result of trying to score against the odds because you really can't count on another hit. The one encouraging sign is the White Sox seem to be starting to get hits. Driving in runs is the next issue they need to tackle. Edited May 5, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 5, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) Dan Hirsch @DanHirsch 5m5 minutes ago #White Sox have also made 14 outs on the bases (2nd most in MLB). @fangraphs has them at -4.1 runs via Ultimate Base Running Combine that with errors / runs added and how much does that change our record. I said it all off-season, the lil things were going to play a significant factor in the outcome of this season and thus far, the Sox have stunk up the joint in those areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 5, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) Combine that with errors / runs added and how much does that change our record. I said it all off-season, the lil things were going to play a significant factor in the outcome of this season and thus far, the Sox have stunk up the joint in those areas. Most of us knew, and you obviously mentioned it, defense was going to be a problem. I think most of us bought the Vince Coleman kool aid and figured the baserunning would be better, but it's been a bad decision after another bad decision, by baserunners and 3rd base coaches. Hopefully, it is because they were struggling and it was an ill-fated attempt to make things happen, and when things get more normalized and 2 runs a game isn't standard, they can relax a bit and make better decisions. There is no question this team is wound tight, and people can put that on Robin, but there is only so much you can do. They know the record. They see their stats on the board at games. Adam Eaton seems to try to hit the ball 600 feet at times. Hopefully a couple of decent games in a row can end all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2015 -> 11:25 AM) Most of us knew, and you obviously mentioned it, defense was going to be a problem. I think most of us bought the Vince Coleman kool aid and figured the baserunning would be better, but it's been a bad decision after another bad decision, by baserunners and 3rd base coaches. Hopefully, it is because they were struggling and it was an ill-fated attempt to make things happen, and when things get more normalized and 2 runs a game isn't standard, they can relax a bit and make better decisions. There is no question this team is wound tight, and people can put that on Robin, but there is only so much you can do. They know the record. They see their stats on the board at games. Adam Eaton seems to try to hit the ball 600 feet at times. Hopefully a couple of decent games in a row can end all of that. I agree they are playing tight and the losses definitely compound the problem. I can't blame Robin for our defense because like I've said numerous times, I think we have too many players who are lousy defenders. Can't coach a Fiat to be a Ferarri. Just can't. Baserunning though, that is something that is just inexcuseable but agree part of it might be "tight" aggression given other issues. Pitching staff is due to have a nice run which should help (and hopefully times up with the offense picking things up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 5, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) I agree they are playing tight and the losses definitely compound the problem. I can't blame Robin for our defense because like I've said numerous times, I think we have too many players who are lousy defenders. Can't coach a Fiat to be a Ferarri. Just can't. Baserunning though, that is something that is just inexcuseable but agree part of it might be "tight" aggression given other issues. Pitching staff is due to have a nice run which should help (and hopefully times up with the offense picking things up). IMO you don't have to be a great fielder to not make mental mistakes. You don't have to be a great fielder to do things like hit the cutoff man, perform a rundown properly, not throw the ball past your infielders all the time a-la what Danks is doing right now. I understand if a guy doesn't have great range he's not going to be a great fielder, I'm ok with that. There's a difference between "these guys are lousy defenders" and "these guys are clowns". Right now our team is clowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 5, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) IMO you don't have to be a great fielder to not make mental mistakes. You don't have to be a great fielder to do things like hit the cutoff man, perform a rundown properly, not throw the ball past your infielders all the time a-la what Danks is doing right now. I understand if a guy doesn't have great range he's not going to be a great fielder, I'm ok with that. There's a difference between "these guys are lousy defenders" and "these guys are clowns". Right now our team is clowns. For the most part, they have been hitting cut off men. Eaton airmailed one, but OFs throwing the ball home usually have no shot if you try to hit the cutoff man, unless the 3B coach is sending a guy just to send him. If it is going to be close, throwing it at the cutoff man is a concession. So airmailing it really isn't as bad as it looks as long as the chance is legit. It is bad if there is really not a legit chance of throwing out the runner. Rundowns.........every single team has trouble with rundowns. They also have been really unlucky with some short hops. Gillaspie has booted balls, Abreu, Micah, Avi, it is always going to be an adventure when it is hit towards these guys. Edited May 5, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2015 -> 02:40 PM) For the most part, they have been hitting cut off men. Eaton airmailed one, but OFs throwing the ball home usually have no shot if you try to hit the cutoff man, unless the 3B coach is sending a guy just to send him. If it is going to be close, throwing it at the cutoff man is a concession. So airmailing it really isn't as bad as it looks as long as the chance is legit. It is bad if there is really not a legit chance of throwing out the runner. Rundowns.........every single team has trouble with rundowns. Gillaspie has booted balls, Abreu, Micah, Avi, it is always going to be an adventure when it is hit towards these guys. Am I the only one who doesn't see it as an adventure when the ball is hit towards Micah? I think he has been doing just fine at 2B (granted I wasn't able to watch this weekend) but I don't think he is the issue on defense. Gillaspie, Flowers, Avi, and Abreu are worse, IMO. I must be one of the only ones who have been happy with the play of Micah so far. I think if the other guys (vets) were hitting better, Micah would be hitting better as well. He also hasn't had a lot of AB's so far, he will only get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 5, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) Am I the only one who doesn't see it as an adventure when the ball is hit towards Micah? I think he has been doing just fine at 2B (granted I wasn't able to watch this weekend) but I don't think he is the issue on defense. Gillaspie, Flowers, Avi, and Abreu are worse, IMO. I must be one of the only ones who have been happy with the play of Micah so far. I think if the other guys (vets) were hitting better, Micah would be hitting better as well. He also hasn't had a lot of AB's so far, he will only get better. He's only had one error, but he got away with a couple more. And as much as people hate Beckham, I think they even see a few that were DPs when he was playing 2B, that aren't DPs anymore. I think he will improve but he is shaky with the glove. But I don't understand the call to replace him. Rookies go through things. It would be one thing to replace him with someone who has had success at the major league level, but another rookie.......Micah hasn't played anywhere near poorly enough for that. Edited May 5, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 The only team that sees less pitches per AB than the White Sox is KC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/b...ed-2/order/true The White Sox are leading the AL in putting the ball into the outfield versus hitting it on the ground. Neither team walks very much, but the Royals put the ball in play a lot more....especially to the middle of the diamond. Also, the Royals are lowest in the league in strikeouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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