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Could the Sox get proper value in trading Sale?


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ok, my time to fess up. this whole weekend i was floundering around and talking trade on most of the important players on this team. i was doing this to get it out of the system.

 

the sox or will not trade anyone this early. i really want to see how they do in the int't draft. i do bet their patience is getting rather thin and it should. most of this problem is management fault.

 

but i want to see good games this week.

 

 

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 10:35 AM)
The Sox aren't trading Sale. If they traded someone Quintana would be the guy they moved and Boston would make a lot of sense as the team getting him. Something like Q for Christian Vasquez, Rafael Devers ++. Devers (or some of our own prospects) could be parlayed into a 3B or SS. The Sox are going to need to fill these offensive holes somehow and it's probably going to come from moving a starter or Danish/Montas. The problem being Danish and Montas aren't going to provide the type of positional upside Quintana could.

Agreed and the answer is No we could not get proper value for Sale at this time

Edited by AlSoxfan
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If the White Sox did what some want here, a total rebuild, and not be competitive for 3 or 4 seasons, then you do trade Sale to the highest bidder, and Abreu as well. People would then be very happy with the farm system rankings, but the odds are slim that when it's all over, the package you receive is better than what you gave up. Toronto has the best cumulative WAR in baseball. The White Sox the worst. 3 games ago, they were about a half game apart in the standings. So judging a trade by cumulative WAR would seem silly. The Sox trading a pitcher who has an excellent chance of winning if the offense scores 3 runs, just doesn't make sense. You aren't going to have an offense 2 or 3 runs better a game from what you get from Chris Sale. The guys they have are going to have to hit. I am not holding out hope much offense is coming from the system for at least a couple of years, so they are going to have to get lucky. It would be interesting to see what it would have taken to get Donaldson and Cervelli this past offseason, but even if they had those guys, would they really be 4 or 5 games better than they are right now?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 11:59 AM)
The last thing the Sox need is the future Adam Dunn.

 

 

Haha this is funny. People see Gallo's name on a prospect list and love him instantly. White Sox fans would hate that style. Always have on here at least.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 11:59 AM)
The last thing the Sox need is the future Adam Dunn.

 

I would take prime Adam Dunn's bat in a heartbeat. If Gallo is capable of playing an average 3b and hits like Dunn did from ages 21-30 you have an incredibly valuable player.

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 11:24 AM)
I would take prime Adam Dunn's bat in a heartbeat. If Gallo is capable of playing an average 3b and hits like Dunn did from ages 21-30 you have an incredibly valuable player.

 

Yeah not sure if his answer was facetious or not but Gallo is an extremely valuable property. He isn't enough by himself but as the headliner in a package of player, that's pretty pretty pretty good

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QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 06:37 PM)
Yeah not sure if his answer was facetious or not but Gallo is an extremely valuable property. He isn't enough by himself but as the headliner in a package of player, that's pretty pretty pretty good

 

He'd already be 4th on the Sox in homers and tied for 7th in walks if he was on the team this year. Not bad for 21 year old 3rd baseman.

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QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 11:11 AM)
If the Rangers wanted to buy they could put together a nice package based around Gallo.

More likely they'll peddle Beltre, and people people will be full of ideas to load up the wagon with Sox prospects to trade for the proven elite veteran.

 

I'd take Gallo in a heartbeat. For Sale, well, they need about 3 other Gallos.

Edited by GreenSox
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QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 11:20 AM)
As was mentioned earlier this thread, the Astros are loaded as well. Not sure they would part with enough talent for the likes of Sale or Q.

Astros don't have near the prospects to even start a conversation for Sale. I don't think they have any elite ones left

For Q yes, but probably every ML team has the prospects for him.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:23 PM)
i agree, i have been waiting for some one to start this. but the rtn would be really too much for a team willing to pay.

 

imagine 4 top rated prospects plus at 2 pitcher in the start line up. that is my demands.

 

Which is a waste unless they are ready to play. Remember this organization is beyond terrible at developing players.

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:38 PM)
He's in the same void as Danks now, can't not play him but no one would take him unless you pay most of it. He's now a sunk cost and we just have to get used to it.

 

Hah, if you're referring to Melky, which I believe you are, that is grossly premature. Yes, he has been a big disappointment to this point. Will he be worth the $14M AAV the SOX will pay him the next three years? Maybe not. But a sunk cost? Dear Lord.

 

He will still be a very productive and above average ML outfielder over the balance of his contract, and in today's game, that is about the going rate.

Edited by ChiSox59
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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 11:59 AM)
The last thing the Sox need is the future Adam Dunn.

He might have mostly sucked with us but for like 8 straight years he was a lock to give you 40 HR, 100 BB, and a .900 OPS. You wouldn't take that?

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:42 PM)
Astros don't have near the prospects to even start a conversation for Sale. I don't think they have any elite ones left

For Q yes, but probably every ML team has the prospects for him.

 

If the Astros asked about Sale, the price would start with Correra and McCullers and go on from there.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:14 PM)
Hah, if you're referring to Melky, which I believe you are, that is grossly premature. Yes, he has been a big disappointment to this point. Will he be worth the $14M AAV the SOX will pay him the next three years? Maybe not. But a sunk cost? Dear Lord.

 

He will still be a very productive and above average ML outfielder over the balance of his contract, and in today's game, that is about the going rate.

John Danks has been worth 0.4 fWAR so far this season. You can probably believe that, he's had a couple solid starts so he's not great but has helped in a few games.

 

Melky Cabrera has been worth -0.8 fWAR so far this season.

 

He's been that bad. You may have confidence in him turning it around, but at the rate he's going right now he's "Worth less than nothing". He could be better than this and still make John Danks look like a bargain.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 01:58 PM)
John Danks has been worth 0.4 fWAR so far this season. You can probably believe that, he's had a couple solid starts so he's not great but has helped in a few games.

 

Melky Cabrera has been worth -0.8 fWAR so far this season.

 

He's been that bad. You may have confidence in him turning it around, but at the rate he's going right now he's "Worth less than nothing". He could be better than this and still make John Danks look like a bargain.

 

A guy that has has been a 124 OPS+ hitter the past four years doesn't fall off a cliff over the course of an offseason. Yes, Melky has been horrible, no doubt. But he is not a sunk cost.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 07:58 PM)
John Danks has been worth 0.4 fWAR so far this season. You can probably believe that, he's had a couple solid starts so he's not great but has helped in a few games.

 

Melky Cabrera has been worth -0.8 fWAR so far this season.

 

He's been that bad. You may have confidence in him turning it around, but at the rate he's going right now he's "Worth less than nothing". He could be better than this and still make John Danks look like a bargain.

 

If a team was willing to take on Melky's contract right now and the Sox get nothing in return, I think the Sox would jump at that deal. More than maybe anyone else in baseball, there are questions about Melky's ability without performance-enhancers. If so far what we've seen is the clean version of Melky, then his contract is going to be a huge albatross.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:02 PM)
A guy that has has been a 124 OPS+ hitter the past four years doesn't fall off a cliff over the course of an offseason. Yes, Melky has been horrible, no doubt. But he is not a sunk cost.

 

Anyone have the data on the distance of the average fly ball Melky hit the last few years compared to this season?

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 03:02 PM)
A guy that has has been a 124 OPS+ hitter the past four years doesn't fall off a cliff over the course of an offseason. Yes, Melky has been horrible, no doubt. But he is not a sunk cost.

Problems:

1. In reply to the bolded, I first say "Adam Dunn". I second say "Alex Rios". We have a history with this.

2. Melky Cabrera is a possibly worse case than either of those because I can actually say one big reason why Melky would physically fall apart completely that is likely not present in either of those cases.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:02 PM)
If a team was willing to take on Melky's contract right now and the Sox get nothing in return, I think the Sox would jump at that deal. More than maybe anyone else in baseball, there are questions about Melky's ability without performance-enhancers. If so far what we've seen is the clean version of Melky, then his contract is going to be a huge albatross.

 

Melky was busted for PEDs in 2012. He had 1000 plate appearances after getting caught in which he put up an OPS + of 119. It's not the roids.

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:05 PM)
Problems:

1. In reply to the bolded, I first say "Adam Dunn". I second say "Alex Rios". We have a history with this.

2. Melky Cabrera is a possibly worse case than either of those because I can actually say one big reason why Melky would physically fall apart completely that is likely not present in either of those cases.

 

1. Just randomly grabbing two players who were better before coming to Chicago than they were when the arrived in Chicago doesn't really prove anything. "Alex Rios" wasn't exactly a great player when the Sox claimed him, hence, he wouldn't have been on non-revocable waivers to begin with.

 

2. So if you're saying Melky has sucked due to the lack of PEDs, why didn't he suck last year too then?

 

Look, I am not some Melky apologist. He's been a big issue. I just think calling his next 2.5 years in a White Sox uniform a sunk cost due to a poor 60 game stretch is silly.

Edited by ChiSox59
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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 07:06 PM)
Melky was busted for PEDs in 2012. He had 1000 plate appearances after getting caught in which he put up an OPS + of 119. It's not the roids.

 

And now he has the worst ISO in all of baseball. From 80th place last year in all of baseball to dead last.

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