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QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 07:41 AM)
Are you talking about Daley? Isn't he considered a speedy, offensive D-man?

 

Or maybe I'm coming in to the middle of a different conversation.

i really don't know what he is talking about.

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QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 11, 2015 -> 01:57 PM)
There is an odd group out there that still pines for Tallon and refuse to give Bowman any credit. LDF isn't the only one out there. I'm not even the biggest Stan supporter in the world, but what he has accomplished during his time here can absolutely not be ignored, yet there is a group out there that actually seem to want to punish him for inheriting a team with Toews and Kane. He will never be able to get out of that shadow.

 

I'll enjoy watching what this new squad does next year, and excited to see some fresh faces in the lineup for a new run.

 

All you have to do is look at Pittsburgh and know that superstars aren't he only recipe to winning.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 08:55 AM)
All you have to do is look at Pittsburgh and know that superstars aren't he only recipe to winning.

This is how I feel.

 

It doesn't mean criticism for bowmans moves can't exist...but his tenure? Come on.

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Sorry if this has been posted already...

Clip of Marko Dano being selected by CBJ in the 2013 Draft:

 

Dano at the 2013 WJCs:

Wait until Marian Hossa gets this kid and mentors him, just like he did with Saad, especially on the forecheck.

 

Dano's 14/15 Highlights:

Kid is not afraid to play in traffic.

Edited by OilCan

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QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 01:41 AM)
Are you talking about Daley? Isn't he considered a speedy, offensive D-man?

 

Or maybe I'm coming in to the middle of a different conversation.

LDF said...

 

2. Sharp was 5.9, Johns is 925K (a lot of people figured him into line ups for next year). So that's 6.8 million, Daley is 3.3 and Garbutt is 900K (Dalls retained 50% of contract) for a total of 4.2. Hawks saved 2.6 million with this deal. the d-man who is 5'11 and is not physical at all, who shies away from contact and can get push of the puck really easily. a forward who may play a 3 or 4 line, if the hawks are lucky. a d-man who is 11 yrs in the nhl and a forward who is 5yrs in the nhl.

 

...and so my point, sarcastic as it was, was that the first thing he mentions about Daley is that he's not physical. What in the hell kind of point is that in the grand scheme of things?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 08:55 AM)
All you have to do is look at Pittsburgh and know that superstars aren't he only recipe to winning.

 

That's what I always come back to. There are some in Canada that think Crosby is better than Toews, he just hasn't been as fortunate to have the talent around him that Toews has. Whether or not you believe that, it does say something that Crosby/Malkin/Letang have won zero conference final games in the past 6 years that Toews/Kane/Keith have won 3 Cups. The supporting casts have made a huge difference.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 03:47 AM)
That's what I always come back to. There are some in Canada that think Crosby is better than Toews, he just hasn't been as fortunate to have the talent around him that Toews has. Whether or not you believe that, it does say something that Crosby/Malkin/Letang have won zero conference final games in the past 6 years that Toews/Kane/Keith have won 3 Cups. The supporting casts have made a huge difference.

 

plus add to that a goaltender, 2 great d-man and a iron fisted coach who doesn't cuddle the susperstars.

 

crosby is better tham toews in scoring, but can he play a team game, sacrifice individuality and play within a team system. (i hope i said right)

 

Kane bought into that system and look at the forwards success. granted the 2 main workhorses are without a doubt, the d-man. there are sooo much pressure on chi d-man and they way the game plan is set up.

 

lastly Q doesn't screw around with players and game plans. it is simple attack, move, puck movement and no stupid penalties.

 

that is what i point of view.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 09:47 PM)
That's what I always come back to. There are some in Canada that think Crosby is better than Toews, he just hasn't been as fortunate to have the talent around him that Toews has. Whether or not you believe that, it does say something that Crosby/Malkin/Letang have won zero conference final games in the past 6 years that Toews/Kane/Keith have won 3 Cups. The supporting casts have made a huge difference.

 

And who has supplied three different sets of supporting casts for the stars? Yeah, exactly. To call Bowman's time here anything but an A+ is awful.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 03:51 PM)
And who has supplied three different sets of supporting casts for the stars? Yeah, exactly. To call Bowman's time here anything but an A+ is awful.

 

 

there are different layers of supporting cast members esp in hockey. for this, i will simple name this as the main core of players.

 

i have said that bowman did a great job in bringing that one key element last yr thru a trade with phx. i still maintain that, and i will like to say, with out him, the hawks may not have won the cup. look at the other thread.

 

however, my point of contention is this off season. Sharp needed to go for 2 reasons. one everyone knows b/c of the salary cap, but there is another reason.

 

now, this trade was somewhat of a reactionary trade, a trade that needed to get done, b/c the hawks were caught flat footed during the draft for asking too much.

 

that was also true with the bickell and i think with steeger as well. the gm was outplayed, out maneuvered on all 3 fronts.

 

now lets look at what the hawks gave up, a #1 line of a quasi power forewards who plays the whole ice. they are not cherry pickers, they back check as aggressively as they fore check. they make the other teams make simple mistakes. they are responsible for their potions. that is Q style of playing hockey. one is 33 yo and the other is 22 yrs old. those traits are not easily taught. oh btw, they can score 20+ goals a yr to boot.

 

the hawks also have a great group of d-man, in Q system they are the key to the team and it is hard to find the players who can play 100% in Q system. the hawks gave up 2 players who can slid in to style of play.

 

so, i am talking about this off season esp on how bowman screwed up. i want the hawks to win.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 10:29 AM)
there are different layers of supporting cast members esp in hockey. for this, i will simple name this as the main core of players.

 

i have said that bowman did a great job in bringing that one key element last yr thru a trade with phx. i still maintain that, and i will like to say, with out him, the hawks may not have won the cup. look at the other thread.

 

however, my point of contention is this off season. Sharp needed to go for 2 reasons. one everyone knows b/c of the salary cap, but there is another reason.

 

now, this trade was somewhat of a reactionary trade, a trade that needed to get done, b/c the hawks were caught flat footed during the draft for asking too much.

 

that was also true with the bickell and i think with steeger as well. the gm was outplayed, out maneuvered on all 3 fronts.

 

now lets look at what the hawks gave up, a #1 line of a quasi power forewards who plays the whole ice. they are not cherry pickers, they back check as aggressively as they fore check. they make the other teams make simple mistakes. they are responsible for their potions. that is Q style of playing hockey. one is 33 yo and the other is 22 yrs old. those traits are not easily taught. oh btw, they can score 20+ goals a yr to boot.

 

the hawks also have a great group of d-man, in Q system they are the key to the team and it is hard to find the players who can play 100% in Q system. the hawks gave up 2 players who can slid in to style of play.

 

so, i am talking about this off season esp on how bowman screwed up. i want the hawks to win.

 

#1, we have no idea what else was offered for guys like Sharp, or anyone else. We are only going off of rumors and the one deal that was actually done.

#2, until this squad hits the ice and shows us how good or bad they are, we don't know if this off season was "screwed up" or not.

#3, we have a lot of young talent stepping in. Teuvo will get his first full season next year, and be on a top line with Sharp and Saad gone. The kid from the KHL is stepping in The kids from Columbus should be a +.

#4, Daley will offer some stabilization to the back line.

#5, the off season isn't done yet.

 

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 04:51 PM)
#1, we have no idea what else was offered for guys like Sharp, or anyone else. We are only going off of rumors and the one deal that was actually done.

#2, until this squad hits the ice and shows us how good or bad they are, we don't know if this off season was "screwed up" or not.

#3, we have a lot of young talent stepping in. Teuvo will get his first full season next year, and be on a top line with Sharp and Saad gone. The kid from the KHL is stepping in The kids from Columbus should be a +.

#4, Daley will offer some stabilization to the back line.

#5, the off season isn't done yet.

 

excellent points.... nice.

 

ref

#1. i can see what you are saying about rumors, where it is forum or a sports site. i agree. but i think and this was based on after Saad trade, that bowman didn't want to send Saad to a team that the hawks may have to face. nice strategy.

 

#2. i diesagree. the sox oops i mean the hawks lost 2 power forward types of players, the kind that is not easly replaceable. esp learning a new systems and their responsibility, esp Q system.

 

#3. same as #2.

 

#4 daley is not a 2 -way d-man, just like Leddy wasn't. Q systems for d-man is really complicated. plus daley rep for not playing a 2 way type of hockey is already proven. maybe the hawks can work that out of him. is offense is nice though. i just wondering if he is better suited as a foreward.

 

i still don't like the contract that bowman gave out to the russiam. i looked on cap geek and he is now earning 4 mil .....

Edited by LDF

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I am cautiously pessimistic about Sharp trade (b/c of SJ), but will feel really terrible if we lose Oduya/Kruger after this move.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 04:26 PM)
I am cautiously pessimistic about Sharp trade (b/c of SJ), but will feel really terrible if we lose Oduya/Kruger after this move.

 

i can see your point, but sharp was a goner back in feb of 2015.... i have to give Q alot of credit for holding this team together and that is why i give bowman credit for his trade to help.

 

sharp was a complete idiot.

 

so for salary excuses, which the sports people are using as the main reason, is a little correct.

 

but loosing 2 key forwards in Q system is a HUGE hit..... that is why i can't see how to repair the damage. let alone if bickell and steeger is not traded.

 

i just don't know.

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I don't care that Sharp was traded, we have to deal with that, I was surprised we had to give Johns in the trade.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 04:57 PM)
I don't care that Sharp was traded, we have to deal with that, I was surprised we had to give Johns in the trade.

yeah, i too didn't like that a. johns was added, concerning what the hawks gave up,

and 2. the saad trade and giving up both saad and the dman.

 

ref to sharp, every gm knew the hawks had to trade sharp and no one was going to help. esp with bowman asking price. bowman did it to himself.

 

well either way, most should know what i am going to say so i won't. i just hope that the the rest of the summer isn't as bad as it was these last 2 weeks.

 

now to see if the russian line will do ok and if the rest of the team will gell.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 12:38 PM)
yeah, i too didn't like that a. johns was added, concerning what the hawks gave up,

and 2. the saad trade and giving up both saad and the dman.

 

ref to sharp, every gm knew the hawks had to trade sharp and no one was going to help. esp with bowman asking price. bowman did it to himself.

 

well either way, most should know what i am going to say so i won't. i just hope that the the rest of the summer isn't as bad as it was these last 2 weeks.

 

now to see if the russian line will do ok and if the rest of the team will gell.

 

Tell me, without any rumor, exactly what Bowman asked for.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 05:41 PM)
Tell me, without any rumor, exactly what Bowman asked for.

 

as i said in the past, i do not work for the front office so in essence all this may come from the sport magazines sites.

 

fri night tsn was saying that bowman was asking for a 1-rounder, a prospect in the 3-6 ranked in the team system and a player in the parent team.

 

again this is rpt from the cert sports mags.

 

after the draft.

 

either a draft pick in the 2-5 round and a prospect not yet playing in the nhl team. or 2- 2-5 rounds.

 

so let me state this, if someone rpt is talking on a sports site and reporting this, isn't that a rumor as well????

 

the majority of this stuff that is discussed here are rumors. it is the source of that rumor is what make it a valid point.

 

so here is another point.

 

sharp had to be traded, not only for the salary cap, he was name the victim of that. but back in Feb he had a fight with a team fov leader for having an affair with his wife..... also he broke up a serious relationship for having an affair with a superstar player on the team..... all rumors

 

except that a sports writer saw the fight and rpt it on the internet. google it.

 

that is why sharp had to be moved.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 12:41 PM)
Tell me, without any rumor, exactly what Bowman asked for.

 

As LDF stated, his return he was looking for for Sharp was a 1st round pick, a young roster player on his ELC, and a top prospect.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 06:55 PM)
As LDF stated, his return he was looking for for Sharp was a 1st round pick, a young roster player on his ELC, and a top prospect.

wow..... many thanks for that.

 

that was kool thing to do.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 12:55 PM)
As LDF stated, his return he was looking for for Sharp was a 1st round pick, a young roster player on his ELC, and a top prospect.

 

Again, none of us know what was discussed with ANY teams, and all of what we hear is rumors. You cant come out and say Bowman got fleeced/failed/ etc after the draft when none of us know what was discussed. What if another GM floats a total lowball offer to Bowman who declines it, and that GM goes to TSN and anonymously reports that Bowman is asking for the moon in order to get Bowman to try and aim lower?

 

Sharp had to be moved, it sucks. People didnt want Johns to be included, that sucks too. But to indict Bowman for having to deal with the financial difficulties that the NHL presents, a mere month after they took the stanley cup, is both shortsighted and misinformed. This isnt Brock for Broglio

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 07:02 PM)
Again, none of us know what was discussed with ANY teams, and all of what we hear is rumors. You cant come out and say Bowman got fleeced/failed/ etc after the draft when none of us know what was discussed. What if another GM floats a total lowball offer to Bowman who declines it, and that GM goes to TSN and anonymously reports that Bowman is asking for the moon in order to get Bowman to try and aim lower?

 

Sharp had to be moved, it sucks. People didnt want Johns to be included, that sucks too. But to indict Bowman for having to deal with the financial difficulties that the NHL presents, a mere month after they took the stanley cup, is both shortsighted and misinformed. This isnt Brock for Broglio

 

but do you believe what sports pro are saying..... isn't that also a rumor???

 

at what point do you say it is not, when 2 or 3 different sports mags rpt it???

 

gm and org goes to these sports mags all the time to leak info. just as they do for baseball. if you feel this way about this in hockey, do you have the same opinion with baseball or the nba or the nfl???

 

a gm job has the major responsibility to be prepare. even when their team is in the SC final. those trade ideas and talks will not stop b/c of the SC Finals. great enjoy and celebration, and then get to work. there is only less than 2 weeks from the final to the draft.

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QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 01:09 PM)
but do you believe what sports pro are saying..... isn't that also a rumor???

 

at what point do you say it is not, when 2 or 3 different sports mags rpt it???

 

gm and org goes to these sports mags all the time to leak info. just as they do for baseball. if you feel this way about this in hockey, do you have the same opinion with baseball or the nba or the nfl???

 

a gm job has the major responsibility to be prepare. even when their team is in the SC final. those trade ideas and talks will not stop b/c of the SC Finals. great enjoy and celebration, and then get to work. there is only less than 2 weeks from the final to the draft.

 

you are completely missing my point. Im not saying rumors have zero truth, I am saying that (with every sport) you should take them with a grain of salt. You have completely trashed bowman both for having the audacity to have his father as an advisor and also for theoretically setting a price way too high for sharp and not moving him during or before the draft. Without being privy to any of the conversations that Bowman had with other GMs, its really hard for me to sit here and rip him for a trade that wasnt made when i have no idea what offers were passed back and forth.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 12, 2015 -> 08:42 AM)
This thread is a dumpster fire

Been that way since about June 9, 2010.

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