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Bonifacio DFA

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 09:11 AM)
I'm not convinced the White Sox ever planned on sitting LaRoche vs. LHP. I believe they signed him to be an everyday player, splits be damned.

I find that hard to believe given the signings of Bonifacio and Beckham...they actually signed exactly the right kind of players - able to hit RH, play multiple positions, run the bases, can use them in several spots and move the weaker defender to DH and actually be able to keep everyone well rested - but I sure can't rule out that they're as inept as you say.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 16, 2015 -> 04:06 PM)
and Belisario

 

 

You can't mention Paulino without also mentioning Gillaspie, Soto, Putnam, Albers. Those guys last 3 were all minor league deals that hit.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 16, 2015 -> 10:17 PM)
The signing did make sense at the time. Then they signed Beckham and there went all the playing time for Bonifacio. Would he have beat Gordon's -0 2 WAR with more at-bats? Who the heck knows, but the pity signing of Beckham doomed him from the start so it's not completely fair to simply judge people's initial reactions before Beckham was added.

 

Beckham didn't doom Bonifacio. Boni doomed himself by not hitting at all, and not being as good in the field as Gordon.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 02:18 PM)
I find that hard to believe given the signings of Bonifacio and Beckham...they actually signed exactly the right kind of players - able to hit RH, play multiple positions, run the bases, can use them in several spots and move the weaker defender to DH and actually be able to keep everyone well rested - but I sure can't rule out that they're as inept as you say.

 

an excellent post and thought process.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 09:11 AM)
I'm not convinced the White Sox ever planned on sitting LaRoche vs. LHP. I believe they signed him to be an everyday player, splits be damned.

 

Do you think LaRoche would've signed if the agreement was that he'd be a platoon player from the start?

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 10:09 AM)
Do you think LaRoche would've signed if the agreement was that he'd be a platoon player from the start?

 

If he wouldn't have, then they shouldn't have signed him.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 11:12 AM)
If he wouldn't have, then they shouldn't have signed him.

 

That is fine hindsight. We all wish they hadn't signed him now. If he simply hit how he did last year, a good overall season playing every day despite bad splits, no one would be complaining. The fact that he can't hit lefties this year isn't the main problem, it's that he hasn't hit righties.

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 10:32 AM)
That is fine hindsight. We all wish they hadn't signed him now. If he simply hit how he did last year, a good overall season playing every day despite bad splits, no one would be complaining. The fact that he can't hit lefties this year isn't the main problem, it's that he hasn't hit righties.

 

Great post.

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 11:32 AM)
That is fine hindsight. We all wish they hadn't signed him now. If he simply hit how he did last year, a good overall season playing every day despite bad splits, no one would be complaining. The fact that he can't hit lefties this year isn't the main problem, it's that he hasn't hit righties.

No it isn't. There was absolutely no hindsight whatsoever in saying "Adam LaRoche should not play regularly against LH Starting pitchers and we shouldn't sign him if he insists that he must".

 

Yes he's been worse against righties, but for the first 3 months of the season his failure against lefties was a major problem too. Hell, he's still put up a .700 OPS against righties on the year, even though that's fallen off over the last month+ while he's been terrible against everyone. He put up a .405 OPS against lefties and that's not that far from what he did last year. If he wasn't willing to platoon he wasn't worth signing.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 10:38 AM)
No it isn't. There was absolutely no hindsight whatsoever in saying "Adam LaRoche should not play regularly against LH Starting pitchers and we shouldn't sign him if he insists that he must".

 

Yes he's been worse against righties, but for the first 3 months of the season his failure against lefties was a major problem too. Hell, he's still put up a .700 OPS against righties on the year, even though that's fallen off over the last month+ while he's been terrible against everyone. He put up a .405 OPS against lefties and that's not that far from what he did last year. If he wasn't willing to platoon he wasn't worth signing.

He has a total of 89 PA vs. LHP. The poster was absolutely correct. Not hitting vs. RHP is what is causing the hatred.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 09:35 AM)
He has a total of 89 PA vs. LHP. The poster was absolutely correct. Not hitting vs. RHP is what is causing the hatred.

 

Garbage. 89 AB's mostly in the middle of the order is not a low number since you face lefties a lot less often than righties. It is regular AB's in a key position in the lineup . It seems as if the Sox ignored the splits both in the signing and the playing time.

 

Don't make it seem like it was a mere 89 AB's .Abreu and Alexei don't have many more . Not hitting , playing time and his acquisition is what caused him, Ventura and Hahn to be scorned.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:07 PM)
Garbage. 89 AB's mostly in the middle of the order is not a low number since you face lefties a lot less often than righties. It is regular AB's in a key position in the lineup . It seems as if the Sox ignored the splits both in the signing and the playing time.

 

Don't make it seem like it was a mere 89 AB's .Abreu and Alexei don't have many more . Not hitting , playing time and his acquisition is what caused him, Ventura and Hahn to be scorned.

You can make it sound like the Sox face3 95% LHP, but it is simply not true. If LaRoche was hitting RHP like normal, he wouldn't be getting booed at USCF. The fact is 80% of the time, right handed pitchers are on the mound. Look what the other Adam with the White Sox is doing in about 30 more PA vs. LHP, and leading off. Why isn't it ever mentioned how his lack of hitting vs. LHP is killing the White Sox? How about Jose Abreu's .235/.311/.370 line vs. LH starters. Should he be benched when they face lefties? Or moved to 7th or 8th? The alternatives for LaRoche vs. LHP weren't great. There is always a chance he might run into one every now and then. It hasn't happened.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:07 PM)
Garbage. 89 AB's mostly in the middle of the order is not a low number since you face lefties a lot less often than righties. It is regular AB's in a key position in the lineup . It seems as if the Sox ignored the splits both in the signing and the playing time.

 

Don't make it seem like it was a mere 89 AB's .Abreu and Alexei don't have many more . Not hitting , playing time and his acquisition is what caused him, Ventura and Hahn to be scorned.

 

The problem is that any of the guys who could have soaked up those ABs haven't hit any better.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:14 PM)
You can make it sound like the Sox face3 95% LHP, but it is simply not true. If LaRoche was hitting RHP like normal, he wouldn't be getting booed at USCF. The fact is 80% of the time, right handed pitchers are on the mound. Look what the other Adam with the White Sox is doing in about 30 more PA vs. LHP, and leading off. Why isn't it ever mentioned how his lack of hitting vs. LHP is killing the White Sox?

A .561 OPS against lefties (Eaton) is a lot better than a .405 (LaRoche). But mostly I agree with you - LaRoche would be a lot more palatable to people if he were still capably hitting righties.

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:24 PM)
A .561 OPS against lefties (Eaton) is a lot better than a .405 (LaRoche). But mostly I agree with you - LaRoche would be a lot more palatable to people if he were still capably hitting righties.

.561 is still needs to be platooned-worthy. And the alternatives were Bonifacio, Beckham, Shuck and either Soto or Flowers. Bonifacio was supposed to hit LHP, but in 35 PA .176..176/.235 with 16 strikeouts.

Edited by Dick Allen

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I thought Bonifacio was a great signing. I didn't know much about LaRoche, but, again, It's getting ridiculous to me how much our FA signings failed. During the 13/14 rebuilding, you had several lottery ticket FA signings you'd hope you could flip. No, none worked out. The one who was close (Crain) got injured right before selling.

 

Our solid, stable veteran FA acquisitions seem to not just be off-norms, but actively having some of the worst offensive years in history.

 

If this is just bad luck, Sox seem to be having a lot of it. More specifically, Hahn seems to be having a lot of it. But these are really adding up.

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You have to bear in mind with Eaton that last season he put up a 110 wRC+ against lefties.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:31 PM)
I thought Bonifacio was a great signing. I didn't know much about LaRoche, but, again, It's getting ridiculous to me how much our FA signings failed. During the 13/14 rebuilding, you had several lottery ticket FA signings you'd hope you could flip. No, none worked out. The one who was close (Crain) got injured right before selling.

 

Our solid, stable veteran FA acquisitions seem to not just be off-norms, but actively having some of the worst offensive years in history.

 

If this is just bad luck, Sox seem to be having a lot of it. More specifically, Hahn seems to be having a lot of it. But these are really adding up.

One thing veteran free agent players need to keep in mind, if they get a call from the White Sox offering them a contract in the $2-5 million a year range, they might want to start thinking about their post baseball lives.

Edited by Dick Allen

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It was obvious in April that Emilio wasn't going to be utilized, and this happens on Aug 17 - gotta love this org.

 

I can't imagine RH & RV are on the same page here, so that, at least, is encouraging.

 

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QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:32 PM)
You have to bear in mind with Eaton that last season he put up a 110 wRC+ against lefties.

Good point. It's tough to draw conclusions from season-to-season platoon splits. Eaton's 53 wRC+ right now against lefties is based on 125 PA's. His first 125 total PA's this season resulted in .226/.288/.304 and we know he's rebounded from that. Put blatantly: 125 PA's aren't that many. But LaRoche's lefty splits had been declining for three solid years, if I recall.

Edited by shysocks

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:38 PM)
It was obvious in April that Emilio wasn't going to be utilized, and this happens on Aug 17 - gotta love this org.

 

I can't imagine RH & RV are on the same page here, so that, at least, is encouraging.

Emilio had to do something to be utilized. He sucked so bad from the first day of spring training until he was DFA'd. I'm sure if he started playing well, he would have received his shot, but that didn't happen.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 10:14 AM)
You can make it sound like the Sox face3 95% LHP, but it is simply not true. If LaRoche was hitting RHP like normal, he wouldn't be getting booed at USCF. The fact is 80% of the time, right handed pitchers are on the mound. Look what the other Adam with the White Sox is doing in about 30 more PA vs. LHP, and leading off. Why isn't it ever mentioned how his lack of hitting vs. LHP is killing the White Sox? How about Jose Abreu's .235/.311/.370 line vs. LH starters. Should he be benched when they face lefties? Or moved to 7th or 8th? The alternatives for LaRoche vs. LHP weren't great. There is always a chance he might run into one every now and then. It hasn't happened.

 

You make it sound like I said the Sox face 95% LH pitching. Good job at politicking your way to a response .His hitting period in the middle of the order batting 4th, 5th, and 6th has cost the Sox games .Not that anyone else they have would've done any better .Preparing for that possibility and sinking money into an old flawed hitter was not the best use of resources. You just can't have someone who's splits are that radical in the middle of the line up unless you have someone else who fits the MOR profile.

 

But I will admit we are splitting hairs. It's his over all suckage that hurts, but he didn't have to be paid or given the PT like a complete player .

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 01:54 PM)
Emilio had to do something to be utilized. He sucked so bad from the first day of spring training until he was DFA'd. I'm sure if he started playing well, he would have received his shot, but that didn't happen.

One thing IIRC you've said before is that he's streaky so if he didn't get a chance to play regularly he'd probably never get a chance to have a good streak.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 12:56 PM)
One thing IIRC you've said before is that he's streaky so if he didn't get a chance to play regularly he'd probably never get a chance to have a good streak.

I don't understand, if guys don't produce, you don't want them playing, yet for some reason, some think Bonifacio needed to play more. He was awful. .176 OBP vs. RHP fanning almost 50% of the time. He was WORSE than LaRoche. BTW, the White Sox team vs. LHP .237/.287/.343. Only 14 HR. He was/is awful vs. LHP, but the team woes vs. southpaws go far deeper than Adam LaRoche.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 11:27 AM)
.561 is still needs to be platooned-worthy. And the alternatives were Bonifacio, Beckham, Shuck and either Soto or Flowers. Bonifacio was supposed to hit LHP, but in 35 PA .176..176/.235 with 16 strikeouts.

These situations are so non-comparable for so many reasons that should be obvious.

Edited by Stan Bahnsen

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