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Bonifacio DFA

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 01:54 PM)
These situations are so non-comparable for so many reasons that should be obvious.

What is obvious? I gave you the alternatives. For some reason, I don't think Beckham or Shuck DHing instead of LaRoche vs. LHP puts this team in the playoff, and as I pointed out, Bonifacio was even worse. So to say Adam LaRoche has sucked would be very accurate. To say Adam LaRoche playing vs. LHP vs. the alternate choices is a big reason this team hasn't played up to expectations, is not.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 01:11 PM)
What is obvious? I gave you the alternatives. For some reason, I don't think Beckham or Shuck DHing instead of LaRoche vs. LHP puts this team in the playoff, and as I pointed out, Bonifacio was even worse. So to say Adam LaRoche has sucked would be very accurate. To say Adam LaRoche playing vs. LHP vs. the alternate choices is a big reason this team hasn't played up to expectations, is not.

I was referring to the comparison of Eaton to LaRoche in regards to the logic and need for platooning them. My suggestion for ALaR, going back to ST, had always been Soto, if no further moves were made.

 

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 03:12 PM)
I was referring to the comparison of Eaton to LaRoche in regards to the logic and need for platooning them. My suggestion for ALaR, going back to ST, had always been Soto, if no further moves were made.

That's all fine and dandy, but if a catcher gets hurt, you lose a DH, so Flowers can't get hurt and can't be pinch hit or pinch run for. and I am sure Soto has caught vs. LHP, so the DH alternative would be Flowers. Not to mention you would be stuck with Soto if they relieved with a RHP because you can't risk not having a catcher available.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 02:20 PM)
That's all fine and dandy, but if a catcher gets hurt, you lose a DH, so Flowers can't get hurt and can't be pinch hit or pinch run for. and I am sure Soto has caught vs. LHP, so the DH alternative would be Flowers. Not to mention you would be stuck with Soto if they relieved with a RHP because you can't risk not having a catcher available.

So, for the once every few years likelihood of giving up the DH, which can be backfilled with PHers anyway, you think it makes sense to give up 300+ OPS points in a 100 to 150ABs during a season???

 

Such is the logic that got us into this mess.

Edited by Stan Bahnsen

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 03:35 PM)
So, for the once every few years likelihood of giving up the DH, which can be backfilled with PHers anyway, you think it makes sense to give up 300+ OPS points in a 100 to 150ABs during a season???

 

Such is the logic that got us into this mess.

There is a reason for that. Robin is not unique when it comes to not using his only other catcher as a DH. And LaRoche has 53 plate appearances vs. LH starters. 53. You would think it is around 400.

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However you cut it, we have Adam LaRoche for at least next year.

 

The good news? Trayce Thompson had a great AAA campaign and is an ideal 4th outfielder because he can hit LHP and spell LaRoche. He's a plus defender.

 

So, I feel happier about that.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 03:11 PM)
So, I feel happier about that.

 

Me too, but we will see how it plays out. Trayce has a big league role, which Im glad about. I hope he can hit LHP well enough

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Would be nice then if they actually gave him at bats in the here and now since this team isn't going anywhere.

 

Mark

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QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 10:11 PM)
However you cut it, we have Adam LaRoche for at least next year.

 

The good news? Trayce Thompson had a great AAA campaign and is an ideal 4th outfielder because he can hit LHP and spell LaRoche. He's a plus defender.

 

So, I feel happier about that.

 

well, lets hope he comes out of the gate better then he did this yr. next yr will be a clean slate.

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 12:48 AM)
Would be nice then if they actually gave him at bats in the here and now since this team isn't going anywhere.

 

Mark

 

i just don't understand this, why not play him for the rest of the season.... somehow figure who will be the dh among the 3 outfields and thompson.

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Boni got DFA'ed which was correct call. It's time to cut ties with Beckham forever. Gordon just can't cut it. Time to forget about Gordo forever. Micah can't do any worse in the backup role.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 11:54 PM)
Boni got DFA'ed which was correct call. It's time to cut ties with Beckham forever. Gordon just can't cut it. Time to forget about Gordo forever. Micah can't do any worse in the backup role.

 

 

Micah can only play 2B though.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 11:38 AM)
No it isn't. There was absolutely no hindsight whatsoever in saying "Adam LaRoche should not play regularly against LH Starting pitchers and we shouldn't sign him if he insists that he must".

 

Yes he's been worse against righties, but for the first 3 months of the season his failure against lefties was a major problem too. Hell, he's still put up a .700 OPS against righties on the year, even though that's fallen off over the last month+ while he's been terrible against everyone. He put up a .405 OPS against lefties and that's not that far from what he did last year. If he wasn't willing to platoon he wasn't worth signing.

 

Laroche was 1 of the 20 MLB players who managed to hit as many as 26 home runs in 2014, and 1 of the 3 who were free agents . His .817 OPS was good for 28th in baseball despite hitting lefties poorly. It's reasonable to assume he had enough interest to pick a non-platoon job. It's also reasonable to assume that if he were putting up an .817 OPS right now, Sox fans wouldn't especially care that he wasn't hitting lefties well.

 

 

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 03:16 AM)
Laroche was 1 of the 20 MLB players who managed to hit as many as 26 home runs in 2014, and 1 of the 3 who were free agents . His .817 OPS was good for 28th in baseball despite hitting lefties poorly. It's reasonable to assume he had enough interest to pick a non-platoon job. It's also reasonable to assume that if he were putting up an .817 OPS right now, Sox fans wouldn't especially care that he wasn't hitting lefties well.

If you look back through threads earlier in the season he had an .800 OPS against righties for about the first 3 months and that entire time we've been registering this same complaint because Tyler Flowers does solidly better against righties than he hits against lefties. He had a .500ish OPS against lefties when he was hitting competently.

 

If Adam LaRoche insisted that he needed to be an everyday player and couldn't platoon then signing him was another foolish move. If Adam LaRoche was open to it and we didn't do so then that was a foolish move. And in either case, it was a problem that could easily have been seen coming.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 11:54 PM)
Boni got DFA'ed which was correct call. It's time to cut ties with Beckham forever. Gordon just can't cut it. Time to forget about Gordo forever. Micah can't do any worse in the backup role.

This roster needs Gordon Beckham because he can play around the infield, and he's the only guy on the bench who can do that.

 

I'm gonna go stare into a corner and contemplate my existence now.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 07:49 AM)
If you look back through threads earlier in the season he had an .800 OPS against righties for about the first 3 months and that entire time we've been registering this same complaint because Tyler Flowers does solidly better against righties than he hits against lefties. He had a .500ish OPS against lefties when he was hitting competently.

 

If Adam LaRoche insisted that he needed to be an everyday player and couldn't platoon then signing him was another foolish move. If Adam LaRoche was open to it and we didn't do so then that was a foolish move. And in either case, it was a problem that could easily have been seen coming.

Adam LaRoche has 53 plate appearances vs. starting LH pitching. That is a whopping 23 more than the guy you thought should be in the line up vs. LHP, Bonifacio who slashed .103/.103/.172 vs. starting LHP.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 08:47 AM)
This roster needs Gordon Beckham because he can play around the infield, and he's the only guy on the bench who can do that.

 

I'm gonna go stare into a corner and contemplate my existence now.

 

Unless we are ready to revisit the Leury Garcia experience.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 09:30 AM)
Unless we are ready to revisit the Leury Garcia experience.

 

He homered last night!

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 10:08 AM)
Leury's OPS is actually 41 points higher than Matt Davidson's.

 

Honestly surprised how a guy with 20 homers has as low of a slugging % as davidson has, let alone his awful OBP.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 10:23 AM)
Honestly surprised how a guy with 20 homers has as low of a slugging % as davidson has, let alone his awful OBP.

I was at a seminar at Soxfest and Buddy Bell was discussing Davidson. The same Buddy Bell who thought Mitchell was a major leaguer was really down on Davidson. It really surprised me. We will see what happens when they tear him apart and put him back together. These 2 years should be enough for him to realize he needs to do some things differently.

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In other words no one would give us anything at all for Bonifacio, even if he we picked up money.

 

Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 24m24 minutes ago

 

White Sox requested waivers on Emilio Bonifacio for purpose of granting unconditional release. Bonifacio (.167) was DFA'd Sunday.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 08:49 AM)
If Adam LaRoche insisted that he needed to be an everyday player and couldn't platoon then signing him was another foolish move. If Adam LaRoche was open to it and we didn't do so then that was a foolish move. And in either case, it was a problem that could easily have been seen coming.

 

By this flawed logic, you'd rather have a guy with a .750 OPS and no major splits than a guy with an .817 OPS overall. Do you think that White Sox front office was unaware of this imperfection in LaRoche's game? Like you thought to look at his splits but all these guys who are ostensibly smart people and run a baseball team for a living never thought

 

It's a f***ing guessing game. The Royals are GENIUSES because they signed Morales to a cheap deal because everyone else passed on him. The Royals are also f***ing IDIOTS because they signed Alex Rios for $11 million. The White Sox are IDIOTS because they signed LaRoche. The A's are bigger IDIOTS because they signed Butler. The Red Sox have Pablo Sandoval for 4 more years. The Mets signed Michael Cuddyer. Everyone sucks. It's baseball.

 

The relatively tiny number of at bats LaRoche gets against lefties is not enough to drag his value down much if he's hitting righties like he always has.

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 04:47 PM)
The relatively tiny number of at bats LaRoche gets against lefties is not enough to drag his value down much if he's hitting righties like he always has.

His OPS against righties is still .700 on this season.

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 02:47 PM)
By this flawed logic, you'd rather have a guy with a .750 OPS and no major splits than a guy with an .817 OPS overall. Do you think that White Sox front office was unaware of this imperfection in LaRoche's game? Like you thought to look at his splits but all these guys who are ostensibly smart people and run a baseball team for a living never thought

 

It's a f***ing guessing game. The Royals are GENIUSES because they signed Morales to a cheap deal because everyone else passed on him. The Royals are also f***ing IDIOTS because they signed Alex Rios for $11 million. The White Sox are IDIOTS because they signed LaRoche. The A's are bigger IDIOTS because they signed Butler. The Red Sox have Pablo Sandoval for 4 more years. The Mets signed Michael Cuddyer. Everyone sucks. It's baseball.

 

The relatively tiny number of at bats LaRoche gets against lefties is not enough to drag his value down much if he's hitting righties like he always has.

 

It's not about just one or two moves, you have to look at the entire body.

 

At the time, losing Aoki, Dyson and Orlando were the only options...and they didn't feel confident enough in that scenario...but they also were't willing to spend more on Tomas (as an outfielder), Rasmus, etc.

 

In the end, with Gordon's injury...that insurance has proven useful and it also bought them time to add Zobrist as well.

 

It's when you start comparing Morales and Volquez...with LaRoche and Samardzija, then you start to see that most of what KC did has worked fairly well for their particular needs...and most of the White Sox moves backfired.

 

For example, instead of a high priced outfielder, they were able to keep Hochevar and sign Medlen/Madson, providing more protection to that big 3 at the back end of the bullpen, and also seeing if they thought highly enough of Medlen to exercise a $10 million option for next year or simply buy him out.

 

The White Sox used roughly the same amount of money on Duke, Bonifacio and Beckham.

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