BlackSox13 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 10:55 PM) just gots to be different You sir are a rebel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Wedge @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 07:54 AM) I took a look at the 2015-2016 MLB free agent list: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/09/2016...ree-agents.html What's depressing to me is that I'm not sure the Sox could buy their way out of their present situation, even if they had infinite money. I'm not seeing how the Sox can cobble together an average lineup without trading off at least one of the young guns (Quintana, Sale, Rodon). Your best bet at this point is to try to jumpstart the club with a 1998 Astros/Mariners type trade (where the Mariners got Carlos Guillen and Freddy Garcia for Randy Johnson). This year is actually much better than next year. If they get a top 10 pick, I would love for them to go after JHey and Kazmir. CF Eaton RF Heyward 1B Abreu DH LaRoche LF Cabrera SS Ramirez/Anderson 2B Sanchez C ? 3B Saladino SP Sale SP Quintana SP Kazmir SP Rodon SP Danks/Johnson CL Robertson RP Jones RP Montas RP Petricka RP Putnam RP Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) This year is actually much better than next year. If they get a top 10 pick, I would love for them to go after JHey and Kazmir. CF Eaton RF Heyward 1B Abreu DH LaRoche LF Cabrera SS Ramirez/Anderson 2B Sanchez C ? 3B Saladino SP Sale SP Quintana SP Kazmir SP Rodon SP Danks/Johnson CL Robertson RP Jones RP Montas RP Petricka RP Putnam RP Duke I would rather have Fister or Latos than Kazmir. No thanks to paying Heyward over $100 million. I want to keep all of the picks next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) This year is actually much better than next year. If they get a top 10 pick, I would love for them to go after JHey and Kazmir. SP Sale SP Quintana SP Kazmir SP Rodon SP Danks/Johnson START ALL THE LEFTIES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Wedge @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 08:54 AM) I took a look at the 2015-2016 MLB free agent list: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/09/2016...ree-agents.html What's depressing to me is that I'm not sure the Sox could buy their way out of their present situation, even if they had infinite money. I'm not seeing how the Sox can cobble together an average lineup without trading off at least one of the young guns (Quintana, Sale, Rodon). Your best bet at this point is to try to jumpstart the club with a 1998 Astros/Mariners type trade (where the Mariners got Carlos Guillen and Freddy Garcia for Randy Johnson). One of the things I've been harping on all year is that it really seems like no team can buy themselves out of a situation any more. Who were the teams who signed the biggest contracts last offseason? White Sox, Nationals, Red Sox, Padres, Mariners. Out of the top 20 free agent contracts signed last year the only 7 players are currently in position to appear in the playoffs without their teams making major moves are Russell Martin, Jon Lester, Brandon McCarthy, Chase Headley, Francisco Liriano, Ervin Santana, and Andrew Miller. Some of those could swap out if the WC teams change too. It's not exaggerating to say that the significant majority of FA money spent last offseason was spent by teams who will miss the playoffs (unless the Nats turn things around). It really looks to me like trying to buy your way out of a weak roster through the FA market simply no longer works very well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 08:31 AM) I would rather have Fister or Latos than Kazmir. No thanks to paying Heyward over $100 million. I want to keep all of the picks next year. Why would you rather have Fister or Latos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhonnydanks Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Latos is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 08:31 AM) I would rather have Fister or Latos than Kazmir. No thanks to paying Heyward over $100 million. I want to keep all of the picks next year. Why not pay Heyward? He'll improve the line up and we all know he would make a huge difference defensively. If we get a top 10 pick, I'd gladly give up a 2nd round pick for Heyward. Remember, we'll most likely get the comp pick for Jeff as well, so 2 picks in the top 30-35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 My off season plan Extend Qualifying Offer to SP Jeff Samardzija Resign C Geovany Soto Resign RP Matt Albers Decline option on SS Alexei Ramirez DFA or trade LaRoche Sign OF Jason Heyward 6 years/120 million (only if top 10 pick) Sign SP Ian Kennedy 1 year/7 million Trade SP John Danks, SP Frank Montas, 3B Matt Davidson, SP Tyler Danish, 2B Micah Johnson, OF Courtney Hawkins to the Mariners for 3B Kyle Seager and SS Chris Taylor CF Eaton RF Heyward 1B Abreu LF Cabrera 3B Seager DH Garcia SS Taylor C Flowers/Soto 2B Sanchez Shuck, Soto/Flowers, Saladino, FA SP Sale SP Quintana SP Kennedy SP Rodon SP Johnson RP Petricka RP Jennings (L) RP Jones RP Putnam RP Duke (L) RP Albers RP Robertson I know I might take some heat on the Seager deal but, he's still solid at 3B defensively and offensively, its just his contract is a little atrocious, which Danks off sets some of that money. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) Why would you rather have Fister or Latos? I just don't want to go with 5 LHP in the rotation. Fister/Latos will be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 09:56 AM) Why not pay Heyward? He'll improve the line up and we all know he would make a huge difference defensively. If we get a top 10 pick, I'd gladly give up a 2nd round pick for Heyward. Remember, we'll most likely get the comp pick for Jeff as well, so 2 picks in the top 30-35. I'm just not a huge fan for that much $$. He's great defensively but has a slugging % of .440. wRc+ of 116 is good but with 11 homers, I'm not paying guy like that $100 million and giving up a top 65 pick. I know that we'll have a comp pick too. I want the team to use the 1st rounder, the comp pick, and the 2nd rounder. Stop giving up draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) I'm just not a huge fan for that much $$. He's great defensively but has a slugging % of .440. wRc+ of 116 is good but with 11 homers, I'm not paying guy like that $100 million and giving up a top 65 pick. I know that we'll have a comp pick too. I want the team to use the 1st rounder, the comp pick, and the 2nd rounder. Stop giving up draft picks. $100 million will probably be a massive underestimate. I think I did the exercise a couple pages ago, might have been another thread though - in fWAR terms he compares solidly to guys like Cano and Fielder who got >$200 million contracts at ages older than Heyward. Yes, his value is more defensive than theirs, but he's been more consistently excellent than Fielder when he cleared the $200 million plateau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlSoxfan Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) My off season plan Extend Qualifying Offer to SP Jeff Samardzija Resign C Geovany Soto Resign RP Matt Albers Decline option on SS Alexei Ramirez DFA or trade LaRoche Sign OF Jason Heyward 6 years/120 million (only if top 10 pick) Sign SP Ian Kennedy 1 year/7 million Trade SP John Danks, SP Frank Montas, 3B Matt Davidson, SP Tyler Danish, 2B Micah Johnson, OF Courtney Hawkins to the Mariners for 3B Kyle Seager and SS Chris Taylor CF Eaton RF Heyward 1B Abreu LF Cabrera 3B Seager DH Garcia SS Taylor C Flowers/Soto 2B Sanchez Shuck, Soto/Flowers, Saladino, FA SP Sale SP Quintana SP Kennedy SP Rodon SP Johnson RP Petricka RP Jennings (L) RP Jones RP Putnam RP Duke (L) RP Albers RP Robertson I know I might take some heat on the Seager deal but, he's still solid at 3B defensively and offensively, its just his contract is a little atrocious, which Danks off sets some of that money. Thoughts? I'd love it, but I think it's gonna cost a bunch more to sign Heyward and Kennedy, especially Heyward. I also don't think we'll end up with a top 10 pick this yr. The other things, if I were the Mariners I'd get a laugh out that trade before I hung up on ya. Laroche will not get DFA'd and I highly doubt they can trade him unless of course they pay most of his contract. You might throw Laroche in with the Seager deal along with about 10 mil. cash and a couple other prospects. I do like Seager but I'm pretty sure the Mariners do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 11:02 AM) $100 million will probably be a massive underestimate. I think I did the exercise a couple pages ago, might have been another thread though - in fWAR terms he compares solidly to guys like Cano and Fielder who got >$200 million contracts at ages older than Heyward. Yes, his value is more defensive than theirs, but he's been more consistently excellent than Fielder when he cleared the $200 million plateau. His value is mostly defense. The White Sox can't afford to make a move like that unless Reinsdorf plans on having a $250 million payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 We need to take into consideration that Heyward has been the best defensive RF in baseball and is going to be entering his physical prime over the course of this contract. If there was ever a guy to hand 150+ mil too it's him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) We need to take into consideration that Heyward has been the best defensive RF in baseball and is going to be entering his physical prime over the course of this contract. If there was ever a guy to hand 150+ mil too it's him. It is? Even if offense is what the White Sox need the most and he doesn't really provide a ton of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 12:19 PM) It is? Even if offense is what the White Sox need the most and he doesn't really provide a ton of it? He is probably going to be a 5 war player 2 years in a row at the end of the season, hits for solid avg/obp/slg and can swipe 20+ bases a year. He's got 39 XBH this year (compared to Avi's 27) and his UZR/150 is 18.4 right now with a 15 DRS (compared to Avi's -10.4 and -11), at 26 years old he is a guy that should continue to improve over the course of the contract and even if his bat plays at the same level as it has this year, his defense is elite enough to validate his contract. Replacing Avi with Heyward would be a difference in 4.5 WAR to this point this season. Eaton Cabrera Heyward Abreu This top 4 next year could conceivably steal 40-50 bases and hit 60-70 HR and 100+ doubles Edited August 27, 2015 by Knackattack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) We need to take into consideration that Heyward has been the best defensive RF in baseball and is going to be entering his physical prime over the course of this contract. If there was ever a guy to hand 150+ mil too it's him. Pass. I would much rather have Trayce when you take contracts into account and the step back Heyward will take in the AL. Trayce can provide top level defense in the OF, he will K a lot more than Heyward but also will give you a lot more power. Giving a guy like that $20M a season would cripple this franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) Pass. I would much rather have Trayce when you take contracts into account and the step back Heyward will take in the AL. Trayce can provide top level defense in the OF, he will K a lot more than Heyward but also will give you a lot more power. Giving a guy like that $20M a season would cripple this franchise. Ok but let's jump to dreamland for a minute. Avi goes over to COL in the Arenado deal to cover their loss of CarGo. Our OF then becomes Trayce, Heyward & Eaton and suddenly 180s to one of the premeir defensive outfields. Melky slides into DH and rotates to the OF to gove rest when needed. Eaton Heyward Abreu Cabrera Arenado Thompson Saladino Flowers Sanchez This is a premeir defensive unit in theory. Can it hit enough? Dunno. Edited August 27, 2015 by Jerksticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Just want to point out that JR is still the man that signs off on anything White Sox related. Anyone that knows Sox Baseball knows what I'm referring to. This thread is becoming the stuff that dreams are made and needs to be brought back to reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 12:51 PM) Pass. I would much rather have Trayce when you take contracts into account and the step back Heyward will take in the AL. Trayce can provide top level defense in the OF, he will K a lot more than Heyward but also will give you a lot more power. Giving a guy like that $20M a season would cripple this franchise. Giving a young, outstanding defender with a solid bat 20M would cripple this franchise? Heyward is entering his best years and you assume he will take a step back in the AL why? The past 3 years he has about an average 9% BB to 16%K, has posted OPS over .700 the past 5 years and can steal a nice amount of bases. If anything a left handed hitter coming to our park that doesn't suck ass and K every other at bat has a good chance to hit 20+ homers. This is the type of player we should have been prioritizing and searching out instead of the Dunn's, LaRoche's and Avisail's of the world Edited August 27, 2015 by Knackattack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlSoxfan Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) Pass. I would much rather have Trayce when you take contracts into account and the step back Heyward will take in the AL. Trayce can provide top level defense in the OF, he will K a lot more than Heyward but also will give you a lot more power. Giving a guy like that $20M a season would cripple this franchise. Probably closer to $25M a season. I like Heyward a bunch but I'm not sure I'd wanna go give up that kinda money for him. I'm not so sure about Tray either. I wish they'd play him a lot more often so we can see what he's got a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlSoxfan Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Ok but let's jump to dreamland for a minute. Avi goes over to COL in the Arenado deal to cover their loss of CarGo. Our OF then becomes Trayce, Heyward & Eaton and suddenly 180s to one of the premeir defensive outfields. Melky slides into DH and rotates to the OF to gove rest when needed. Eaton Heyward Abreu Cabrera Arenado Thompson Saladino Flowers Sanchez This is a premeir defensive unit in theory. Can it hit enough? Dunno. Nice dream but it's gonna cost a bunch more than Avi to get Arenado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) Nice dream but it's gonna cost a bunch more than Avi to get Arenado Not a bunch...a whole bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) For those unwilling to give up draft picks, how do you plan on improving this offense? Trading for established bats is going to cost a lot more than a 2nd round draft pick. And if you say internal options, then you might as well dump everyone and rebuild, because outside of Anderson & maybe Micah we don't have a lot of offensive prospects that are likely to help in the near future. Edited August 27, 2015 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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