whitesoxfan99 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Now, I can't watch the game here in Urbana-Champaign but from what I've read on the game thread Danny absolutely sucked tonight which is consistent with what he has done as a starter all year. We can't afford to be giving away games like this. I've been against going to the 4 man rotation all year, but I think its time to just try to ride Colon, Buehrle, Loaiza, and Garland the rest of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I got it on and they got like the entire pen up. Just got home from work and I'm already in a bad mood after looking at the score. First pitch and Koch gets out of the jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I haven't been a fan of the 4-man rotation, but anything has got to be better than our fifth starter who can't even get us past the 2nd or 3rd inning. I am not sure we have anybody else except rookie Jon Adkins who didn't pitch well for the little time he was here earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 We already have a 4-man rotation if ya think about it.....4 men: Loaiza, Buehrle, Colon and Garland...then we have a 4-man #5 starter...Wright, Cotts, Porzio and Stewart. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 We already have a 4-man rotation if ya think about it.....4 men: Loaiza, Buehrle, Colon and Garland...then we have a 4-man #5 starter...Wright, Cotts, Porzio and Schoenweis.   Your right, but was there anymore we could add? Stewart remember. I am not sure Schoeny started for us. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Hmm, Stewart...thats...what ..I put there....I didn't edit my post.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Once upon a time almost every team had a four man rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Why in the hell do we need a fifth starter? To give the pitchers a day off. Please. You could have more days off on the off days. JM, for once I disagree with you on something. You should be thinking about playoffs and solitifying your bullpen, NOT a gay mofo 5-man rotation. If you need an emergency fella to pitch out of it, hell put in Adkins. The guy, to me, has shown what he can do at the big league level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I think after tonite, we've got no choice but to go to a 4-man rotation. Plenty of guys have come in here and tried to win da 5th starters job, (Cotts, Wright, Stewart etc.) but none of them have shown that they r up to it. When u talk about biggest dissapointments this year I think u hav to consider Dan Wright as well. I mean this guy won about 15 games last year I think, and this year he's only won 1. If he pitched da same as he did last year, we've got a great rotation. Although he's had injuries as well, so u hav to take that into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I think after tonite, we've got no choice but to go to a 4-man rotation. Plenty of guys have come in here and tried to win da 5th starters job, (Cotts, Wright, Stewart etc.) but none of them have shown that they r up to it. When u talk about biggest dissapointments this year I think u hav to consider Dan Wright as well. I mean this guy won about 15 games last year I think, and this year he's only won 1. If he pitched da same as he did last year, we've got a great rotation. Although he's had injuries as well, so u hav to take that into consideration. SOMEONE WHO AGREES! THANK GOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I think a 4 man rotation at this point is a certainty. And yes, Wright has been a major disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2003 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Not only Dan Wrights 14 wins...But the fact that he finished last season 7-2 with a 3.90 era in his last 9 starts. It looked as if he was really turning the corner. I guess he never fully recovered from the spring training injury. Very, very dissapointing season from Wright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Saturday - Colon. Sunday - MB, Tues - Garland, Wedns - Elo, Thurs - Colon. So the next time you would need a fifth guy is Friday. By then we should know if it even will make a difference. If we're anywhere near in contention, then by all means, you got to go 4 man rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Saturday - Colon. Sunday - MB, Tues - Garland, Wedns - Elo, Thurs - Colon. So the next time you would need a fifth guy is Friday. By then we should know if it even will make a difference. If we're anywhere near in contention, then by all means, you got to go 4 man rotation. It's much harder to go with a 4 man rotation in the modern game. Pitchers don't get the benefits of illegal aids like they did back then. Pitchers spend about 30 pitches alone warming up these days & another 10 at least in betw innings. So a 110 pitch 7in outing is really over 200 pitches. Â If the SOX go 4 man, then you must limit each pitcher to 90 pitches & about 7in. That's about 160-180 throws per game. Â It's certainly possible if JM reads this, but then you need solid BP work for the remaining 2. OT games will hurt a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Saturday - Colon. Sunday - MB, Tues - Garland, Wedns - Elo, Thurs - Colon. So the next time you would need a fifth guy is Friday. By then we should know if it even will make a difference. If we're anywhere near in contention, then by all means, you got to go 4 man rotation. It's much harder to go with a 4 man rotation in the modern game. Pitchers don't get the benefits of illegal aids like they did back then. Pitchers spend about 30 pitches alone warming up these days & another 10 at least in betw innings. So a 110 pitch 7in outing is really over 200 pitches. Â If the SOX go 4 man, then you must limit each pitcher to 90 pitches & about 7in. That's about 160-180 throws per game. Â It's certainly possible if JM reads this, but then you need solid BP work for the remaining 2. OT games will hurt a lot. The whole issue with a 4-man rotation goes back to that very thing. In today's game pitchers are conditioned to 4 days rest and not 3. Can their arms hold up to pitching that game without the extra day of rest? There was a time that the Sox put out there on the mound the same major three hurlers and I don't remeber them ever missing a game: During the '67 pennat race for example it was Gary Peters, Joel Horlen and Tommy John and #4 was John Buzhardt, Cisco Carlos and Bruce Howard for the most part. We had a sensational bullpen with Locker, Wilhelm, McMahon and Wood. The knuckleballers could pitch a lot of innings. I don't see us with that strong of a pen nor do I think our guys can go without the extra rest, but maybe if they are limited to 6-7 innings and with wise use of the pen. I think our problem with Danny Wright is the fact he just hasn't rebounded physically, and maybe mentally, from the elbow problems in spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASHWOUND Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I'm not big on the supposed 4 man rotation we might go on. Loaiza has already said his arm feels tired and I'm pretty sure pitchers like Colon who throws alot of pitches and hard pitches need every single day off they can get. What's the use of going to a 4 man if the 4 are gonna suck(or not pitch to their potential) cause we didn't give them that extra day off. Â I don't know...We may not have a choice, but it gets me a bit weary this late of the year putting more pressure on these pitchers arms than we have too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Some very good posts in this thread. Well I guess it would all depend on your priorities: just make the playoffs, or go deep in the playoffs. Personally I would stick with the 5 man because tired arms down the stretch could be devasting as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Does any1 else think that if we stick with a 5 man rotation and Wright doesn't get another start, could Schoenweis be given a go for da 5th starter. I know KW said when we got him that he would contend for it in spring training, but y not give him a go now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Does any1 else think that if we stick with a 5 man rotation and Wright doesn't get another start, could Schoenweis be given a go for da 5th starter. I know KW said when we got him that he would contend for it in spring training, but y not give him a go now? SHo has proven to be unable to get RH hitters out consistently. Id leave him in the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 SHo has proven to be unable to get RH hitters out consistently. Id leave him in the pen. But the only thing DW has proven able to do consistenly is throw ball four. We need another option for next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 But the only thing DW has proven able to do consistenly is throw ball four. We need another option for next week. bring up cotts to start the first inning and throw danny in after that... he does better when hes cleaning up cotts mess...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 bring up cotts to start the first inning and throw danny in after that... he does better when hes cleaning up cotts mess...... Â Maybe you're onto something here. If we won the first two games in Boston though, having the one game lead with MN losing on Friday and the fact that we had already won the series, JM would probably have Cotts called up to give his starters a rest for the 3 games against MN . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 All this is easier if you have a better closer. If Colon was pitching for the Dodgers the past couple starts do you think he would have had complete games? Hell no. We would have been saving his arm for playoffs. 3-1 lead going into the 9th and our best closer is ~~ ta da! ~~ Colon  I hate to say it but if we go to a 4-man rotation we're going to be a mess in a couple weeks. Anyone remember Black Jacks playoff record? As I recall it wasn't too good and I believe a lot of that was the innings pitched by the time the playoffs game around.  We have a solid 1-2-3 an erratic 4 (Cy or Judy) and say a prayer and toss your cookies baby because expansion sucks. The 5th starter today would have been AAA at best a generation ago. The Marlins or Diamondbacks or ?? has our and everyone elses 5th starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 We have a solid 1-2-3 an erratic 4 (Cy or Judy) and say a prayer and toss your cookies baby because expansion sucks. The 5th starter today would have been AAA at best a generation ago. The Marlins or Diamondbacks or ?? has our and everyone elses 5th starters. Actually Garland has been very steady for an extended period of time. He has six straight quality starts and hasn't allowed more than 4 earned runs in a game since June 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 ElRockinMT brought up some very valid points about the '67 Sox and the 4 man rotation. There is another factor that makes it harder now than it was then to go 4 man. The DH. Not only does it put another strong bat in the lineup, it makes the pitcher work harder against the #8 man in the lineup than the pitchers in the NL have to. NL #8 hitters can be given crap to hit if the situation warrants it, knowing the pitcher is up next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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