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Ventura "absolutely" wants to manage White Sox next season

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QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 11:50 AM)
How many seasons does he have to manage before he has experience?

There is a valid argument that suggests that bad coaching experience isn't real coaching experience.

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Here is what I am not understanding. How can ownership justify Ventura with another year? He brings absolutely nothing to the team. I doubt he even has a pulse. He took a team who was suppose to compete for the division and made them the laughing stock of the league. Now, he can't make them hit which was one of the main reasons in the first half, but he refuses to address the stuff he can control. Like bad base running and stuff. How can he keep putting LaRoche in the line up? He is an automatic out, especially in the 4th spot. That's bad managing.

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QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 05:54 AM)
Here is what I am not understanding. How can ownership justify Ventura with another year? He brings absolutely nothing to the team. I doubt he even has a pulse. He took a team who was suppose to compete for the division and made them the laughing stock of the league. Now, he can't make them hit which was one of the main reasons in the first half, but he refuses to address the stuff he can control. Like bad base running and stuff. How can he keep putting LaRoche in the line up? He is an automatic out, especially in the 4th spot. That's bad managing.

The truth of the matter is, ownership can justify whatever they want as long as they are the owner of the team. JR doesn't have to justify anything.

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Joe Torre was a s***ty ex-manager who was a color guy on the Angels when I first moved to LA. Now he's in the HOF.

 

Funny what talent can do for a s***ty manager.

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QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 02:55 PM)
Joe Torre was a s***ty ex-manager who was a color guy on the Angels when I first moved to LA. Now he's in the HOF.

 

Funny what talent can do for a s***ty manager.

 

You are right. Talent is the biggest factor. But can you ever take intangibles into consideration involving managers or do we assume anybody can manage? If anybody can manage and it's only about talent assembled, fine, ignore this thread.

However ...

I'm really fearing that road-heavy start to next season under Robin's direction. It screams 4-9 or 5-8 and another terrible season. I'm also thinking some managers: Bevington, Trey Hillman, yes Robin might actually be bad enough to affect results no matter the talent.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 05:54 AM)
Here is what I am not understanding. How can ownership justify Ventura with another year? He brings absolutely nothing to the team. I doubt he even has a pulse. He took a team who was suppose to compete for the division and made them the laughing stock of the league. Now, he can't make them hit which was one of the main reasons in the first half, but he refuses to address the stuff he can control. Like bad base running and stuff. How can he keep putting LaRoche in the line up? He is an automatic out, especially in the 4th spot. That's bad managing.

 

I guess loyalty over ability and competence counts for a lot in this organization.

 

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Sep 9, 2015 -> 10:26 PM)
Back in the day, the two best third basemen arguably were Robin and Matt Williams. Now Matt is the worst manager in majors, Robin certainly in lowest quartile.

Williams is just getting more media scrutiny. Ventura, Williams, Ausmus...all terrible re strategy. Ventura is making fewer overt flubbs, like bunting right in front of your best hitter, than he used to. Don't kno about the others.

All had the same issue - lack of experience.

Edited by GreenSox

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QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 07:47 AM)
The truth of the matter is, ownership can justify whatever they want as long as they are the owner of the team. JR doesn't have to justify anything.

True, and the fans don't have to justify why they stay away from his ballpark in droves. It cuts both ways.

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 06:16 PM)
True, and the fans don't have to justify why they stay away from his ballpark in droves. It cuts both ways.

Agreed. It takes a special organization to keep Robin after being this bad.

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QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 04:41 PM)
Agreed. It takes a special organization to keep Robin after being this bad.

It seems like the tea leaves are leaning towards his returning...

 

and that frosts my @ss no end. He's actually lucky that the Nats have underachieved more glaringly. Otherwise, our great former 3B is #31 in a field of 30 as a mgr. His return, if it happens, is the result of years of a cancerous lack of accountability. The bar of acceptance has become incredibly low.

 

 

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 06:16 PM)
True, and the fans don't have to justify why they stay away from his ballpark in droves. It cuts both ways.

 

Post of the week.

 

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QUOTE (harkness @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 09:13 PM)
Another inspired home stand in September under ventura..no reason whatsoever to keep this guy around. .

 

In JR's mind there's a big reason... probably a few million of them......it's called being under contract for next year.

 

Mark

 

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 05:16 PM)
True, and the fans don't have to justify why they stay away from his ballpark in droves. It cuts both ways.

 

Tell that to Kenny and Cooper who have had negative things to say about the fan base on at least four occasions this season.

 

That's part of the Sox M.O. in my opinion.

 

1. Never admit you screwed up...

2. Blame Sox fans...

 

Mark

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 12, 2015 -> 04:04 AM)
In JR's mind there's a big reason... probably a few million of them......it's called being under contract for next year.

 

Mark

Somebody at sox fest should ask KW or Hahn if they feel confident the Sox can survive that long road trip to start next season over .500. I mean I don't want to be a broken record (already) but are any of you confident the Sox can get through those first 13 games better than 5-8? or 4-9? That would immediately tell the fanbase and the world that .500 remains the best case scenario for the season. And those games aren't even full of Central teams, which normally mean tons of Losses. Maybe managers don't matter at all. But I have no confidence Robin's troops can even play .500 ball the first 2-3 weeks of April.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 10:09 PM)
Somebody at sox fest should ask KW or Hahn if they feel confident the Sox can survive that long road trip to start next season over .500. I mean I don't want to be a broken record (already) but are any of you confident the Sox can get through those first 13 games better than 5-8? or 4-9? That would immediately tell the fanbase and the world that .500 remains the best case scenario for the season. And those games aren't even full of Central teams, which normally mean tons of Losses. Maybe managers don't matter at all. But I have no confidence Robin's troops can even play .500 ball the first 2-3 weeks of April.

 

That would fit right in with the franchise recent track record. They haven't had a "winning" month of April since 2009 and that was only one game over .500.

 

Mark

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 11:07 PM)
Tell that to Kenny and Cooper who have had negative things to say about the fan base on at least four occasions this season.

 

That's part of the Sox M.O. in my opinion.

 

1. Never admit you screwed up...

2. Blame Sox fans...

 

Mark

 

The other one is "show up and we will make the team better".

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 11:10 AM)
I don't know if Thome would be interested, I've never heard or read him say anything on the subject one way or another.

 

I do know that Thome is very well respected and liked by JR, that he is an advisor to the team and that they are close.

 

Tony LaRussa told me that he and JR and Thome have had dinner together and that Jim's passion for the franchise was clearly evident.

 

Make of that what you will.

 

He does fit the profile though. Remember before Kenny talked Ventura into taking the job he offered it to Konerko as a "player-manager." Paul turned him down saying it would be to much for one guy.

 

Let's put it this way, I wouldn't be surprised to see Thome be offered the job at some point in the future. It would be so White Sox (i.e. we're smarter than everyone else with our hirings...)

 

Mark

Jerry has made comments about Thome and managing that seem to suggest he IS the next manager. And I wouldn't be surprised if Konerko manages within the next 10 years.

 

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I wish Bell took the job when offered in 2011. I think the sox would have made the postseason that year, and not be as underachieving since then.

 

Cooper needs to go.

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 11:07 PM)
Tell that to Kenny and Cooper who have had negative things to say about the fan base on at least four occasions this season.

 

That's part of the Sox M.O. in my opinion.

 

1. Never admit you screwed up...

2. Blame Sox fans...

Mark

 

In some professional sports organizations that gets you fired. The division between fans and organization to some degree has been going on for 4 decades. Only new ownership will change that.

 

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QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Sep 12, 2015 -> 06:13 AM)
Jerry has made comments about Thome and managing that seem to suggest he IS the next manager. And I wouldn't be surprised if Konerko manages within the next 10 years.

 

Rinse and repeat hoping for a different result. Why does everyone think Konerko stills want to be involved in baseball? Once again it will be rinse and repeat hoping for a different result. The guys who want to be involved starts as instructors and work their way up. That's how Ozzie did it and with a different organization.

Edited by kitekrazy

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QUOTE (harkness @ Sep 11, 2015 -> 10:13 PM)
Another inspired home stand in September under ventura..no reason whatsoever to keep this guy around. .

 

We know this but, do they?? Really, what in the world will it take to make necessary changes? I hope at the end of the 2016 season we are not on this board wishing for a managerial change!

 

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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 12, 2015 -> 05:41 PM)
Rinse and repeat hoping for a different result.

 

Why can't people figure this? You think Thome or Konerko or whatever KW lackey is going to be a great manager?

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