southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) Then why are we seeing the teams we are in the playoffs? One team has done that in a relatively short period of time. That team also has a loyal fan base that allowed them to sign a $150 million pitcher to anchor the front of the rotation during that rebuild, so even them being included in the scorched earth part gets a little more questionable. Ours would look more like the Pirates and KC versions where we have to hope that one year finally everything comes together all at once and then hope the fans come back so we can keep the team together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) One team has done that in a relatively short period of time. That team also has a loyal fan base that allowed them to sign a $150 million pitcher to anchor the front of the rotation during that rebuild, so even them being included in the scorched earth part gets a little more questionable. Ours would look more like the Pirates and KC versions where we have to hope that one year finally everything comes together all at once and then hope the fans come back so we can keep the team together. Not only that, they had a team pass on Bryant, Samardzija turn down their offer for an extension, and got a Cy Young award guy out of nowhere for nothing. So huge breaks get them the second WC. The second WC in the AL is currently 7 games over 500. If that is what it takes for "sustained success", the White Sox have finished over 7 games over 5 times in the worst GM in the world's tenure. Other than that, it is prolonged losing. Maybe I am missing something, but during the last 3 years even when the Sox were in rebuilding mode, the gamethreads were full of whining about how bad so and so is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) Not only that, they had a team pass on Bryant, Samardzija turn down their offer for an extension, and got a Cy Young award guy out of nowhere for nothing. So huge breaks get them the second WC. Don't forget defrauding the Padres for Rizzo. A couple of these things go differently, and the Cubs are still in rebuilding mode. Edited September 25, 2015 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 08:13 PM) Don't forgetting defrauding the Padres for Rizzo. A couple of these things go differently, and the Cubs are still in rebuilding mode. And take on salary in the Montero/Fowler trades, something most rebuilding teams couldn't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) Don't forgetting defrauding the Padres for Rizzo. A couple of these things go differently, and the Cubs are still in rebuilding mode. And let's be honest... I know things have improved down on the farm, but do people really trust the Sox to draft and develop an entire team set to all arrive and star at roughly the same period of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:15 PM) And take on salary in the Montero/Fowler trades, something most rebuilding teams couldn't do. Well rebuilding teams without loyal fanbases can't do that anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 04:16 PM) And let's be honest... I know things have improved down on the farm, but do people really trust the Sox to draft and develop an entire team set to all arrive and star at roughly the same period of time? Do people really trust the White Sox to build a winning team by wise trades and free agent acquisitions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:28 PM) Do people really trust the White Sox to build a winning team by wise trades and free agent acquisitions? They have a history of having actually done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) Not only that, they had a team pass on Bryant, Samardzija turn down their offer for an extension, and got a Cy Young award guy out of nowhere for nothing. So huge breaks get them the second WC. The second WC in the AL is currently 7 games over 500. If that is what it takes for "sustained success", the White Sox have finished over 7 games over 5 times in the worst GM in the world's tenure. Other than that, it is prolonged losing. Maybe I am missing something, but during the last 3 years even when the Sox were in rebuilding mode, the gamethreads were full of whining about how bad so and so is. Rebuilding mode? This team wasn't a "rebuilding team". The braintrust put it together to compete. They got lucky on Arieta. But you make your own luck when you are willing to make trades at the deadline...eventually something pops. And Shark...well, after he turned it down, the Cubs didn't doink around, waiting until the end of July...they got aggressive an sold high. The Sox, of course, "were still in it". The Cubs also don't mind sending fallen heroes on their way. The Sox get apoplectic at the mere thought of such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Another thing to consider is that there's a difference between scorched-earth rebuilding and general rebuilding. You can rebuild without blowing everything up, which is what I think we should do for next season. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 06:32 PM) Another thing to consider is that there's a difference between scorched-earth rebuilding and general rebuilding. You can rebuild without blowing everything up, which is what I think we should do for next season. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Isn't that what the Sox tried to do this year, and the year before that, and the year before that? We all know how that plan worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Mike F. @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 06:34 PM) Isn't that what the Sox tried to do this year, and the year before that, and the year before that? We all know how that plan worked out. No, the Sox didn't try to rebuild this season. Rebuilding teams don't spend all that money in free agency or trade away 4 young players for a guy in his walk year. 2014 was the only year they really tried that, and the results were as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) A lot of money comes off the books after next year. Get a few value signings/trades this offseason (lotto tickets and such), let some of the young guys play, and look to 2017 to compete when guys like Anderson and Fulmer are hopefully ready. Don't expect to be contenders, but if things go well and a few guys rebound or break-out we could have a year like 2008 while not sacrificing any pieces for 2017. Edited September 25, 2015 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 05:41 PM) A lot of money comes off the books after next year. Get a few value signings/trades this offseason (lotto tickets and such), let some of the young guys play, and look to 2017 to compete when guys like Anderson and Fulmer are hopefully ready. Don't expect to be contenders, but if things go well and a few guys rebound or break-out we could have a year like 2008 while not sacrificing any pieces for 2017. Basically the brief and pithy version of Balta's plan. Of course, it will kill season tickets but there's no fixing that at this point anyway...sunk costs. So they will have to be patient. Just not sure how plausible that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) Don't forget defrauding the Padres for Rizzo. A couple of these things go differently, and the Cubs are still in rebuilding mode. I wouldn't mind the White Sox defrauding a team or two with such a trade. It'd really help our progression forward to not give up talent to receive talent. Really, looking back when is the last terribly lopsided White Sox trade in our favor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 08:58 PM) I wouldn't mind the White Sox defrauding a team or two with such a trade. It'd really help our progression forward to not give up talent to receive talent. Really, looking back when is the last terribly lopsided White Sox trade in our favor? Nellie Fox for Joe Tipton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (oldsox @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 08:28 PM) Nellie Fox for Joe Tipton. Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton Loiaza for Contreras Edited September 26, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 keithlaw @keithlaw 6m6 minutes ago Alex Guerrero hit .500/.500/1.273 in his first 11 games and has hit .196/.227/.339 since. For everyone that wants Guerrero this off season. All I have to say is lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I wouldn't mind one bit if Sale was traded. As long as it was for a hall. /we have much more pressing issues than starting pitching. We can lose Sale and become a better team by becoming much better in other areas. Do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 09:50 PM) Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton Loiaza for Contreras Jon Garland trade too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I still don't think the Sox would consider moving him right now unless the offer was absolutely too good to pass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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