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White Sox official website has a possible Quintana trade chip post

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 03:25 PM)
I get your line of thinking and I don't have much more than I've already said, but I think you know there was no way Phegley was going to be one of the two catchers come April '15. The Sox didn't like his personality or his skill set.

Semien not being the starting 2B was the big impact. Bassitt has been hurt much of this year, though he may be blooming into something good - so some loss there too.

 

The other two, no real loss. Ravelo likely never makes it (and missed most of this year anyway), and Phegley has had a mediocre bat to go with horrible D and a personality the pitchers didn't want to work with.

 

So the focus should be, they wanted to get a year of Shark, a sandwich pick or trade bait, and easier negotiating access... in exchange for a potentially league average (and cheap, and could get better) 2B and half a year of a decent (and cheap) starter who may or may not keep doing that. If Shark had pitched to his averages, the Sox do pretty well in the trade. He didn't.

 

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Have none of you watched Semien play defense this year?

 

edit- saw the link to the article about it. but it still sucks.

Edited by Jose Abreu

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 02:37 PM)
Samardzija was not a mediocre acquisition. He underperformed, but he still has surplus value on his cost. Plus, we have a very valuable draft pick coming from his dismissal. I liked this move then and I like it now. This was a well thought out, perfectly positioned move. The fact that Samardzija has performed the way he has and the Sox are in the position they are in shows how well-coordinated this move was.

 

LaRoche was a mediocre signing. He had a great track record and in theory, I really liked the move but it just didn't work out. I don't know what happened to him but he had been consistent and he was a way of attacking a market inefficiency. He's been downright terrible and nobody expected it. Fortunately, he's got one year left and struggled with injuries more than it was reported. There's a decent chance he can be a plus contributor next year still.

 

The Duke signing sucked. I hated it then and I hate it now. Just a terrible move that went against one of the things the Sox have always succeed with: spending money on relievers and spontaneous results. This one hurts but it's not a crippling number he's paid.

 

Cabrera is the one that really bothers me. I was "eh" with it at the time but everything that happened since has made me really dislike it. Melky is a decent player and a good guy. I'll root for him but I agree with Hahn on this one. Kenny saw the offseason unfold and drank the kool-aid on the team. He went to Reinsdorf for the money and made this signing against Hahn's wishes. Hahn thought they could find a LF on the trade market that could contribute in the same ways at a lesser cost. The Sox owe him 2/29 and he doesn't have much room to make surplus value. What hurts me the most, is if he doesn't sign with us, we have a third round draft prospect/that pool money, an extra 14 million off the payroll and more importantly and a position we can get crafty with and add value. This should have been the final straw on KW but everyone knows it won't be.

Good post. Well said. KW is a big problem. The 2013-14 Hahn-based moves were good and a step in the right direction. I guess what bothers me, is KW wanting to go all in and spend stupid money. If Hahn truly is not responsible for the "go for it now" and it was indeed KW, it definitely means that the men making personelle decisions are not on the same page. This will continue to blow up in their faces and kill this organization. Commit to a damn direction! Either put a premium on solidifying that new core, build up the farm or continue to overspend on players who will not perform up to expectations. Please go, KW! Please go, Robin! Let Rick do his job, bring in his own manager and let's do this the right way. It's not 2006 anymore. The game has changed quite a bit since then. Especially when it comes to the importance of developing in house talent.

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 05:14 PM)
That's what worries me also. Them treating Quintana like a weak starter when he's one of the most valuable trade assets in baseball.

 

I won't be mad if he has to go, but it needs to be a franchise-changer. It shouldn't fill "one position". But "filling one position" is what they might try to do with a "win now" deal.

 

I'd have no problem if it was Trout.

 

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 02:37 PM)
Samardzija was not a mediocre acquisition. He underperformed, but he still has surplus value on his cost. Plus, we have a very valuable draft pick coming from his dismissal. I liked this move then and I like it now. This was a well thought out, perfectly positioned move. The fact that Samardzija has performed the way he has and the Sox are in the position they are in shows how well-coordinated this move was.

 

LaRoche was a mediocre signing. He had a great track record and in theory, I really liked the move but it just didn't work out. I don't know what happened to him but he had been consistent and he was a way of attacking a market inefficiency. He's been downright terrible and nobody expected it. Fortunately, he's got one year left and struggled with injuries more than it was reported. There's a decent chance he can be a plus contributor next year still.

 

The Duke signing sucked. I hated it then and I hate it now. Just a terrible move that went against one of the things the Sox have always succeed with: spending money on relievers and spontaneous results. This one hurts but it's not a crippling number he's paid.

 

Cabrera is the one that really bothers me. I was "eh" with it at the time but everything that happened since has made me really dislike it. Melky is a decent player and a good guy. I'll root for him but I agree with Hahn on this one. Kenny saw the offseason unfold and drank the kool-aid on the team. He went to Reinsdorf for the money and made this signing against Hahn's wishes. Hahn thought they could find a LF on the trade market that could contribute in the same ways at a lesser cost. The Sox owe him 2/29 and he doesn't have much room to make surplus value. What hurts me the most, is if he doesn't sign with us, we have a third round draft prospect/that pool money, an extra 14 million off the payroll and more importantly and a position we can get crafty with and add value. This should have been the final straw on KW but everyone knows it won't be.

Agree

Agree

Agree but had hope. Coop seemed to really like him

Agree with a side note I liked Aoki for a couple reasons, he was cheaper and a shorter contract. He also performed as well as Cabera if not better.

All said an done I'd do it all over again without hindsight of course, except Cabera

 

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 03:27 PM)
If Phegley ever has another year half as good as this one I'll eat my hat. Semien is still the only guy I'll miss from that deal - and I'll miss him plenty.

 

-I agree with this. Phegley is putting those numbers up on their bench - very similar to Soto's

-Bassitt I doubt turns into much of anything. Probably 5th starter or reliever (probably a swing guy) and we got an arm back for him who will probably be a reliever (Ynoa) so that part is meh

-Ravelo had no spot as Abreu is at first and has only played like 50 games this year

 

As long as our compensation pick is solid, I'd say it was worth it. But that's just my opinion personally.

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I am for the most part against trading Q. I don't think we get what he's worth or enough of what we need to make it worth while. On the other hand Sale might get us there, but thats a whole nother thread.

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If you're trading Q then trade Abreu, Robertson, Sale, Danks, Flowers, Lexi, Duke and that guy who supposedly is the DH. Start over with a BOATLOAD of young talent + Rodon and Fulmer as your key pitching pieces. And hire a manager who can work with young talent, who knows how to teach the game. Q, Sale and Abreu would bring you riches. Or do very little, hope for the best and be prepared for another season of below average and very frustrating baseball.

Edited by The Ginger Kid

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QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 10:14 PM)
If you're trading Q then trade Abreu, Robertson, Sale, Danks, Flowers, Lexi, Duke and that guy who supposedly is the DH. Start over with a BOATLOAD of young talent + Rodon and Fulmer as your key pitching pieces. And hire a manager who can work with young talent, who knows how to teach the game. Q, Sale and Abreu would bring you riches. Or do very little, hope for the best and be prepared for another season of below average and very frustrating baseball.

 

Sox are going to do the latter of course. They have now reached the point where 'hope' is all they have.

 

Mark

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 1, 2015 -> 05:45 AM)
Sox are going to do the latter of course. They have now reached the point where 'hope' is all they have.

 

Mark

 

how can the FO not see, there is a lack of anything remotely resembling prospects in the minors or depth. what were they looking at???

 

didn't they figure this out before??

 

/my mini rant!!

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QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 11:14 PM)
If you're trading Q then trade Abreu, Robertson, Sale, Danks, Flowers, Lexi, Duke and that guy who supposedly is the DH. Start over with a BOATLOAD of young talent + Rodon and Fulmer as your key pitching pieces. And hire a manager who can work with young talent, who knows how to teach the game. Q, Sale and Abreu would bring you riches. Or do very little, hope for the best and be prepared for another season of below average and very frustrating baseball.

The most likely course is in between.

 

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The Red Sox would be an interesting partner for Q

 

http://meadowparty.com/blog/2015/10/08/klawchat-10815/

 

Steve: Sox will have lots of SP candidates under contract for next year (Buchholz, Eduardo, Kelly, Porcello, Miley, Owens, Brian Johnson, Steven Wright) but no true ace. Think they’ll a) invest $200+ mil in Price, b) sign someone from the text tier (Zimmerman, etc.), c) trade for an ace, or d) go with existing options?

Klaw: My guess is they sign one top-end starter and trade for one. I hope for their sake that they keep Rodriguez, who has ace upside, and try to package some of these major-league ready guys like Marrero, Cecchini, JBJ, etc. who have no obvious places to play in Boston any time soon.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 03:16 PM)
The Red Sox would be an interesting partner for Q

 

http://meadowparty.com/blog/2015/10/08/klawchat-10815/

 

Wouldn't want any of those guys that Law mentioned.

 

For Quintana, I'd ask for Holt, Devers, Margot, Owens, and Ball.

 

They'd probably say no, but Q is that valuable.

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 03:40 PM)
Wouldn't want any of those guys that Law mentioned.

 

For Quintana, I'd ask for Holt, Devers, Margot, Owens, and Ball.

 

They'd probably say no, but Q is that valuable.

 

Q for Betts or Q for Moncada and Margot would be what I'd look at.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 05:26 AM)
That makes no sense. Of course you are not going to trade him for 3 pitchers who are all worse. But would you trade him for a starting 3B and C or a SS and CF. If you can fill 2 offensive holes w players who can hit and defend in positions like 3B, SS C or Of in a trade w 1 or 2 good prospects then you really consider it.

 

I didn't say trade him for 3 pitchers who are worse. I said he'd be replaced with 3 pitchers who are worse. With 2 holes already needing to be filled in the rotation in the next 2 years and enough question marks with the unprovenness of E. Johnson, Fulmer, Montas, Beck, or some scrap heaper, it doesn't make a ton of sense and doesn't seem reasonably likely that the Sox should/will open up another huge hole in the rotation.

 

In short, they aren't trading Quintana.

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 03:22 PM)
I didn't say trade him for 3 pitchers who are worse. I said he'd be replaced with 3 pitchers who are worse. With 2 holes already needing to be filled in the rotation in the next 2 years and enough question marks with the unprovenness of E. Johnson, Fulmer, Montas, Beck, or some scrap heaper, it doesn't make a ton of sense and doesn't seem reasonably likely that the Sox should/will open up another huge hole in the rotation.

 

In short, they aren't trading Quintana.

 

I'd bet Han probably gets offers for Quintana at least once a week.

 

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 04:06 PM)
Q for Betts or Q for Moncada and Margot would be what I'd look at.

Bosox love Betts; they would never trade him one for one for Q.

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 07:00 AM)
Bosox love Betts; they would never trade him one for one for Q.

 

Just saying, that's the type of return I'd be looking for

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 08:00 AM)
Bosox love Betts; they would never trade him one for one for Q.

 

If I am Hahn, I would not trade Q for Betts straight up. The Boston FO loves Betts but we don't know what Dombrowski thinks of him. If Bradley and Betts both return, Betts will get moved from CF next year to a corner since his throws from CF have been very erratic. Really good hitter and good speed in OF. But Q has to bring you 2 ML ready players not 1. I would rather have Bradley jr and Swihart for Q but not sure if Dombrowski will do that.

 

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 06:33 AM)
If I am Hahn, I would not trade Q for Betts straight up. The Boston FO loves Betts but we don't know what Dombrowski thinks of him. If Bradley and Betts both return, Betts will get moved from CF next year to a corner since his throws from CF have been very erratic. Really good hitter and good speed in OF. But Q has to bring you 2 ML ready players not 1. I would rather have Bradley jr and Swihart for Q but not sure if Dombrowski will do that.

 

Bradley Jr is still way too unproven to take that kind of risk.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 07:47 AM)
Bradley Jr is still way too unproven to take that kind of risk.

 

Yeah they'd at least have to get 3 more guys in that deal if they are taking him as well I believe.

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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 10:05 PM)
I'd bet Han probably gets offers for Quintana at least once a week.

 

Does Jabba want him?

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Trading Q for prospects makes no sense if the team intends to compete next season. If they want to start from scratch, fine, but that means that Sale, Abreu, Eaton, etc should go as well.

 

Trading Q would leave a big hole in the rotation both in the short term and in the futre and it wouldn't make any sense for the Sox to trade one of their best competitive pitchers if they want to play better next year.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 08:47 AM)
Bradley Jr is still way too unproven to take that kind of risk.

 

Bradley had a great 1/2 season in AAA and then hit 10 hrs and 43 RBI in 74 games in majors. That would project to 20 and 90 in 150 games. He is already considered an elite OF who Boston is moving to CF next year. I Think if you can get a young catcher and CF for Q and hopefully they throw in a SP prospect, you do it. Agree there is a risk but last year people said the same for Bogaerts who had lesser numbers than Bradley and then exploded this year both at bat and in the field. My gut is Swihart is an untouchable though.

 

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