Douglas Rome Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 LaRouche looks like a statue, but he looked like a statue in 2014 too, didn't anybody see that before they hired him? He's a stiff, I would just dump him and write it off as a bad deal. Why keep him around like we did the other Adam, he's a cancer that needs to be cut off at the neck. And he says he's sorry and he should be booed, but he still cases his checks. If one of these stiffs would come out and say don't pay me, now that would be something. How 'bout this, Adam Ladouche comes out and says don't pay me until game 162, and then, and only then, pay me if you think I deserve the money? thanks, douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 QUOTE (Douglas Rome @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 02:29 PM) LaRouche looks like a statue, but he looked like a statue in 2014 too, didn't anybody see that before they hired him? He's a stiff, I would just dump him and write it off as a bad deal. Why keep him around like we did the other Adam, he's a cancer that needs to be cut off at the neck. And he says he's sorry and he should be booed, but he still cases his checks. If one of these stiffs would come out and say don't pay me, now that would be something. How 'bout this, Adam Ladouche comes out and says don't pay me until game 162, and then, and only then, pay me if you think I deserve the money? thanks, douglas LaRoche 2014 26 HR 92 RBI .259/.362/.455 What a stiff, Thanks, Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Rome Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) his line is okay, but he still looked like a statue, who would hire a statue, first thing I said the first time I saw him bat? What was the first time you saw him bat, prolly onening day 2015 just like me? thanks, Douglas Edited October 6, 2015 by Douglas Rome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Dick, Your LaRoche stats fail to state an obvious point. In 2014, he struck out 21% of the time. In 2015, it was 33%. At some point during any season, a player who cannot hit simply needs to be kept out of the lineup until they can figure out how to hit, or to at least have better contact. LaRoche left so many men on base this past season, he cost the Sox runs. His QAB was so incredibly low he was pretty much an automatic out, especially with 2 strikes. A manager's job is to win games and nothing else. Putting LaRoche's needs above the team's most likely cost them runs and perhaps some wins. There's that pesky WAR factor again. If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) See Andre Dawson's "pay me what you think I'm worth at the end of the season" pledge in 1987. If our best marketing strategy is pointing to the back of LaRoche's baseball card, they're in more trouble than previously imagined. Surely that approach heading into 2012 with Dunn didn't convince any season ticket buyers on the fence to commit. Edited October 7, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 11:26 AM) Dick, Your LaRoche stats fail to state an obvious point. In 2014, he struck out 21% of the time. In 2015, it was 33%. At some point during any season, a player who cannot hit simply needs to be kept out of the lineup until they can figure out how to hit, or to at least have better contact. LaRoche left so many men on base this past season, he cost the Sox runs. His QAB was so incredibly low he was pretty much an automatic out, especially with 2 strikes. A manager's job is to win games and nothing else. Putting LaRoche's needs above the team's most likely cost them runs and perhaps some wins. There's that pesky WAR factor again. If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out? i agree with the RV and spring training comment. but i can't see the owners eating his contract. what got me is this, using stats or just visual looks, RV should have been able to see that Adam L was not working. why keep throwing him out there. at some point, before or just after the ASG, Adam should have been bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) This is like the Greg/Adam Dunn...why isn't he benched? debates of the past. Because the White Sox aren't in the habit of eating any contract of more than $5 million completely...until they've first thoroughly exhausted every avenue in an attempt to extract any remaining value. Edited October 7, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 05:26 AM) Dick, Your LaRoche stats fail to state an obvious point. In 2014, he struck out 21% of the time. In 2015, it was 33%. At some point during any season, a player who cannot hit simply needs to be kept out of the lineup until they can figure out how to hit, or to at least have better contact. LaRoche left so many men on base this past season, he cost the Sox runs. His QAB was so incredibly low he was pretty much an automatic out, especially with 2 strikes. A manager's job is to win games and nothing else. Putting LaRoche's needs above the team's most likely cost them runs and perhaps some wins. There's that pesky WAR factor again. If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out? JB Shuck is a fine 4th OF. Playing him every day wouldn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Dick, I didn't say play Shuck everyday. Put him into the full time DH slot. All his numbers are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 06:26 AM) Dick, Your LaRoche stats fail to state an obvious point. In 2014, he struck out 21% of the time. In 2015, it was 33%. At some point during any season, a player who cannot hit simply needs to be kept out of the lineup until they can figure out how to hit, or to at least have better contact. LaRoche left so many men on base this past season, he cost the Sox runs. His QAB was so incredibly low he was pretty much an automatic out, especially with 2 strikes. A manager's job is to win games and nothing else. Putting LaRoche's needs above the team's most likely cost them runs and perhaps some wins. There's that pesky WAR factor again. If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out? That would be Hahn not Ventura making that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GamesToLove Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) Dick, I didn't say play Shuck everyday. Put him into the full time DH slot. All his numbers are better. That is literally every day. If you think JB Shuck should be a full-time DH on a major league team...I don't know what to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You don't have to tell me. Here's what I will tell you. There is no downside by having Shuck as the full time DH. He could not be any worse than LaRoche. At the very least, Shuck could surprise everyone, but it would be worth an effort to look at. What's the worst that could happen? He sucks? We already had that as the DH this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 08:00 AM) You don't have to tell me. Here's what I will tell you. There is no downside by having Shuck as the full time DH. He could not be any worse than LaRoche. At the very least, Shuck could surprise everyone, but it would be worth an effort to look at. What's the worst that could happen? He sucks? We already had that as the DH this past season. There is a downside to having Shuck as a full time DH. It's that he is not very good. As a fourth outfielder/pinch hitter he is fine but no manager in their right mind would have Shuck as a full time DH. You're much better off rolling with LaRoche and hoping he can return to pre-2015 form. I think the odds of that happening are better than the odds of Shuck being even somewhat useful as a full time DH. At least with LaRoche batting there is a chance he will run into one and hit it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm hoping LaRoche follows the Dunn pattern - completely awful the first year with us, makes the All-Star team the next. The good news is there's no years 3 and 4 with LaRoche this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) Dick, I didn't say play Shuck everyday. Put him into the full time DH slot. All his numbers are better. There is a really high chance that Shucks numbers were where they were because he was played selectively into good match ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 07:14 AM) This is like the Greg/Adam Dunn...why isn't he benched? debates of the past. Because the White Sox aren't in the habit of eating any contract of more than $5 million completely...until they've first thoroughly exhausted every avenue in an attempt to extract any remaining value. Though if you want to talk about Dunn, it is worth pointing out what his second year looked like compared to his first. If we get a similar rebound for LaRoche, we will be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 09:07 AM) I'm hoping LaRoche follows the Dunn pattern - completely awful the first year with us, makes the All-Star team the next. The good news is there's no years 3 and 4 with LaRoche this time. \GMTA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 For all those that think Shuck should definately NOT BE A FULL TIME DH, here are his stats. Although he has not been a full timer, his stats speak volumes about whether he should have been over LaRoche. Especially when the Sox were still in the wild card race and LaRoche could not hit a stationary ball much less a pitched one. SHUCK'S STATS Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF s 2011 24 HOU NL 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 2013 26 LAA AL 129 478 437 60 128 20 3 2 39 8 4 27 54 .293 .331 .366 .697 98 160 10 1 6 7 0 2014 27 TOT AL 38 114 110 12 16 1 0 2 9 2 0 3 12 .145 .168 .209 .377 8 23 1 0 1 0 1 2014 27 LAA AL 22 88 84 10 14 1 0 2 9 2 0 3 11 .167 .195 .250 .445 28 21 0 0 1 0 1 2014 27 CLE AL 16 26 26 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .077 .077 .077 .154 -57 2 1 0 0 0 0 2015 28 CHW AL 79 165 143 15 38 8 2 0 15 7 5 16 16 .266 .340 .350 .689 95 50 2 1 3 2 0 4 Yrs 283 849 771 96 204 31 6 4 66 19 9 57 89 .265 .313 .336 .649 85 259 16 2 10 9 2 162 Game Avg. 162 486 441 55 117 18 3 2 38 11 5 33 51 .265 .313 .336 .649 85 148 9 1 6 5 1 LAA (2 yrs) 151 566 521 70 142 21 3 4 48 10 4 30 65 .273 .309 .347 .657 88 181 10 1 7 7 1 CLE (1 yr) 16 26 26 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .077 .077 .077 .154 -57 2 1 0 0 0 0 HOU (1 yr) 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 CHW (1 yr) 79 165 143 15 38 8 2 0 15 7 5 16 16 .266 .340 .350 .689 95 50 2 1 3 2 0 AL (3 yrs) 246 757 690 87 182 29 5 4 63 17 9 46 82 .264 .308 .338 .646 84 233 13 2 10 9 1 NL (1 yr) 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 10:30 AM) For all those that think Shuck should definately NOT BE A FULL TIME DH, here are his stats. Although he has not been a full timer, his stats speak volumes about whether he should have been over LaRoche. Especially when the Sox were still in the wild card race and LaRoche could not hit a stationary ball much less a pitched one. SHUCK'S STATS Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF s 2011 24 HOU NL 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 2013 26 LAA AL 129 478 437 60 128 20 3 2 39 8 4 27 54 .293 .331 .366 .697 98 160 10 1 6 7 0 2014 27 TOT AL 38 114 110 12 16 1 0 2 9 2 0 3 12 .145 .168 .209 .377 8 23 1 0 1 0 1 2014 27 LAA AL 22 88 84 10 14 1 0 2 9 2 0 3 11 .167 .195 .250 .445 28 21 0 0 1 0 1 2014 27 CLE AL 16 26 26 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .077 .077 .077 .154 -57 2 1 0 0 0 0 2015 28 CHW AL 79 165 143 15 38 8 2 0 15 7 5 16 16 .266 .340 .350 .689 95 50 2 1 3 2 0 4 Yrs 283 849 771 96 204 31 6 4 66 19 9 57 89 .265 .313 .336 .649 85 259 16 2 10 9 2 162 Game Avg. 162 486 441 55 117 18 3 2 38 11 5 33 51 .265 .313 .336 .649 85 148 9 1 6 5 1 LAA (2 yrs) 151 566 521 70 142 21 3 4 48 10 4 30 65 .273 .309 .347 .657 88 181 10 1 7 7 1 CLE (1 yr) 16 26 26 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .077 .077 .077 .154 -57 2 1 0 0 0 0 HOU (1 yr) 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 CHW (1 yr) 79 165 143 15 38 8 2 0 15 7 5 16 16 .266 .340 .350 .689 95 50 2 1 3 2 0 AL (3 yrs) 246 757 690 87 182 29 5 4 63 17 9 46 82 .264 .308 .338 .646 84 233 13 2 10 9 1 NL (1 yr) 37 92 81 9 22 2 1 0 3 2 0 11 7 .272 .359 .321 .680 91 26 3 0 0 0 1 Shuck is a 4th OF. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I know LaRoche sucked this year but he has a better chance to rebound than Shuck does of being a capable DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 10:30 AM) For all those that think Shuck should definately NOT BE A FULL TIME DH, here are his stats. Although he has not been a full timer, his stats speak volumes about whether he should have been over LaRoche. Especially when the Sox were still in the wild card race and LaRoche could not hit a stationary ball much less a pitched one. You're completely ignoring the fact that as a part time player, Shuck was only played in favorable matchups. Despite that fact he managed an OPS that was not significantly better than LaRoche's and was lower than LaRoche's versus right handed pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Either way, Shuck's defense is good enough where if he's starting, it should be in the field, not as DH. If we were really going to bench LaRoche, then Shuck should have been RF or LF, moving Avi or Melky to DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 10:26 AM) If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out? Teams don't eat salaries. When a guy is making that much, they play them. It's another of baseball's unwritten rules. No matter how bad you are, if you have one of those good free agent contracts you play. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 12:14 PM) This is like the Greg/Adam Dunn...why isn't he benched? debates of the past. Because the White Sox aren't in the habit of eating any contract of more than $5 million completely...until they've first thoroughly exhausted every avenue in an attempt to extract any remaining value. Exactly. Robin knows LaRoche blows. He can't do anything about it. You play him til mercifully the contract runs out or he retires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 01:53 PM) Teams don't eat salaries. When a guy is making that much, they play them. It's another of baseball's unwritten rules. No matter how bad you are, if you have one of those good free agent contracts you play. Exactly. Robin knows LaRoche blows. He can't do anything about it. You play him til mercifully the contract runs out or he retires. Like Keppinger, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 07:55 PM) Like Keppinger, right? I said good free agent contracts. The big deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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