Heyman: Justin Upton to the Tigers

[GGajewski18]

Didn't TOR largely just trade Revere for savings?

 

No. Storen actually makes 1.1 million more than Revere this next season. Revere at 7.7 and Storen at 8.8. Washington did send 1.1 million in the deal to balance it all out.

[bmags]

Yuck, what an awful trade.

[BlackSox13]

Didn't TOR largely just trade Revere for savings?

Toronto's payroll sits at about 130M so they have money to burn.

 

Yuck, what an awful trade.

Not really when we consider the Toronto rotation. Just a guess but I would imagine they will be relying on their pen quite a bit and Jays have a surplus of outfielders. Imo, it was a smart move by the Jays.

Edited January 9, 2016 by BlackSox13

[fathom]

Article says Sox offered Upton a short-term deal

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14531913...-larry-reynolds

[OmarComing25]

Article says Sox offered Upton a short-term deal

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14531913...-larry-reynolds

I'm curious if lowball means number of years, AAV or both.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm curious if lowball means number of years, AAV or both.

 

I'm going to guess both.

[maggsmaggs]

offered low-ball, short-term offers from both the Chicago White Sox and the Los Angeles Angels.

 

Who is describing the offer as "low ball"? Maybe that AAV is Upton's actual value, and his agent oversold to Upton what he would be worth on the free agent market.

 

Maybe he has not receive an offer with the AAV he is looking for and years is because he simply is a 3-4 WAR player, not a superstar like he wants to think.

 

Just like when Urlacher said the Bears gave him a low-ball offer before retiring and when he looked on the free agent market, no one was offering him anything more.

Edited January 9, 2016 by maggsmaggs

[BlackSox13]

I think the agents of Cespedes and Upton need to keep in mind that there are more sellers than buyers so if they want to play games, let em. Plenty of alternatives to choose from on the trade market which is why those two players have yet to receive the offer they are looking for. In the end, Cespedes and Upton just might have to settle for a 3 or 4 year deal. The FA outfielders have such little bargaining power its amusing to me.

 

Heyward and Gordon were smart for taking the deals they got.

[Bob Sacamano]

I think the agents of Cespedes and Upton need to keep in mind that there are more sellers than buyers so if they want to play games, let em. Plenty of alternatives to choose from on the trade market which is why those two players have yet to receive the offer they are looking for. In the end, Cespedes and Upton just might have to settle for a 3 or 4 year deal. The FA outfielders have such little bargaining power its amusing to me.

 

Heyward and Gordon were smart for taking the deals they got.

Or even a 1-year deal. Upton can take one and then become a free agent at 29 in a weak class.

 

[BlackSox13]

Or even a 1-year deal. Upton can take one and then become a free agent at 29 in a weak class.

I think it's a gamble with a double edged sword. On one side, if Upton performs as usual then he should hit paydirt next winter but if he under-performs he lowers his value.

 

I'm probably in the minority on this but I don't have interest in Upton for a 1 year deal, he either accepts a 3/4 year deal or f*** him and move on to someone else. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Upton in a Sox uni, just not for merely one season. There's just too many options available to give into his demands, he can either meet the Sox half way or he can piss off.

Edited January 9, 2016 by BlackSox13

[Chicago White Sox]

I agree, a one year deal with Upton should be a last resort. Puts us in the same spot next year, but without the benefit of a ton of OF options.

[BlackSox13]

I agree, a one year deal with Upton should be a last resort. Puts us in the same spot next year, but without the benefit of a ton of OF options.

Exactly. No need to rinse and repeat next winter. Would rather secure an outfield spot for the next 3 or 4 years. Hopefully by the time Melky is a FA, one of Jacob May or Adam Engel is ready otherwise the Sox will have money to spend during the '17/'18 off season that should have plenty of outfielders available.

[OmarComing25]

I think it's a gamble with a double edged sword. On one side, if Upton performs as usual then he should hit paydirt next winter but if he under-performs he lowers his value.

 

I'm probably in the minority on this but I don't have interest in Upton for a 1 year deal, he either accepts a 3/4 year deal or f*** him and move on to someone else. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Upton in a Sox uni, just not for merely one season. There's just too many options available to give into his demands, he can either meet the Sox half way or he can piss off.

The risk is more with injury than underperforming, just look at Samardzija.

[BlackSox13]

The risk is more with injury than underperforming, just look at Samardzija.

Samardzija wasn't injured though, he under performed. I do agree with you though, injury is also part of the risk and a good point.

 

If Upton and his agent aren't interested in a one year deal which I believe to be true, then they might have to accept the fact that it's better to accept a 3/4 year deal which still puts Upton back on the market at age 31/32 to get another big contract. Imo, that's a better alternative for Upton than getting 5 or 6 years. If Upton begins to regress before that 5/6 year deal is up he be age 33/34 and it will cost him in free agency when the contract is over but if he accepts a 3/4 year deal and performs, he can still get a very good contract that will cover the ages many players begin their regression.

 

Upton not being interested in a 3/4 year deal only makes sense if he thinks he can get something like a 7/8 year contract that would cover to his age 35/36. If he thinks he can get that then I wish him well and good luck with that bud.

[OmarComing25]

Samardzija wasn't injured though, he under performed. I do agree with you though, injury is also part of the risk and a good point.

That was my point. Samardzija greatly underperformed but still got a major payday. Compare that to Span, whose injury cost him a lot more money.

[Saufley]

Exactly. No need to rinse and repeat next winter. Would rather secure an outfield spot for the next 3 or 4 years. Hopefully by the time Melky is a FA, one of Jacob May or Adam Engel is ready otherwise the Sox will have money to spend during the '17/'18 off season that should have plenty of outfielders available.

''

 

I tend to believe the future is now and I hope we get a Cespedes signing for 2016 and a few years beyond. I've sat by for too many seasons and at the end have had to say "wait until next year". Nothing is a guaranty, even the future.

[BlackSox13]

That was my point. Samardzija greatly underperformed but still got a major payday. Compare that to Span, whose injury cost him a lot more money.

Two different markets. The length of contracts, the money pitchers signed for and how quickly FA pitchers came off the board showed just how important pitching is and the Shelby Miller trade further backs that up. Pitching is still the premium. Span is an outfielder amount many many outfielders available.

 

Another point is that before Samardzija's tough season in '15 he was speculated to get a contract north of 100M and instead settled for what the Cubs offered him last year in '14. Samardzija still got a nice contract but not what it could have been had he performed the way he had the two years prior to his '15 season.

 

Imo, injuries and under performing both take away from a free agent's contract and money potential.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

''

 

I tend to believe the future is now and I hope we get a Cespedes signing for 2016 and a few years beyond. I've sat by for too many seasons and at the end have had to say "wait until next year". Nothing is a guaranty, even the future.

Definitely. Would like to see the Sox get an outfielder that will be around for the next 3-4 years. Hopefully Cespedes or Upton come to their senses and meet the Sox half way on a 4 year deal.

[Lillian]

I don't quite understand the front office's reluctance to commit to 4 years. Who in the Organization, would said player be blocking?

Even if Avi develops into a real stud, all the Sox have is Eaton and Avi. Melky will be long gone, and out of Engel, May and Hawkins, isn't it

highly unlikely that more than 1 or 2 of them becomes a better than average Major Leaguer? Adolfo is a long way from the Majors, so whomever

the Sox sign should have a spot in their outfield, for quite a while. Unless the guy is over 30, there is little reason to worry about him playing on a big

contract, at age 33. That's really still in a position player's prime, unless he gets hurt, or is terribly out of shape.

I seriously doubt that they would actually hesitate to pay Cespedes for 4 years, his age 30 through 33 years, if the money is reasonable. It's more likely

that this is just negotiating, as many of you have suggested.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Lillian

[SkokieSox]

A one year doesn't really fit with a plan for team cohesion. Yeah, he'll play hard. You'd have to wonder how the team binds together under that scenario. It's easy to think of stats and how they translate objectively, but the truth of the matter is that the subjective aspect has a high impact to the overall performance of the group.

[Dick Allen]

I don't quite understand the front office's reluctance to commit to 4 years. Who in the Organization, would said player be blocking?

Even if Avi develops into a real stud, all the Sox have is Eaton and Avi. Melky will be long gone, and out of Engel, May and Hawkins, isn't it

highly unlikely that more than 1 or 2 of them becomes a better than average Major Leaguer? Adolfo is a long way from the Majors, so whomever

the Sox sign should have a spot in their outfield, for quite a while. Unless the guy is over 30, there is little reason to worry about him playing on a big

contract, at age 33. That's really still in a position player's prime, unless he gets hurt, or is terribly out of shape.

I seriously doubt that they would actually hesitate to pay Cespedes for 4 years, his age 30 through 33 years, if the money is reasonable. It's more likely

that this is just negotiating, as many of you have suggested.

Who is John Danks blocking. I am sure you wouldn't mind if the Sox obligation to him was at least one year less. The fact is these guys might suck in 3 years, and as of now, there I are some nice looking free agent targets in 3 years.

 

There is no reason to be locked into a player longer than needed.

[BlackSox13]

Who is John Danks blocking. I am sure you wouldn't mind if the Sox obligation to him was at least one year less. The fact is these guys might suck in 3 years, and as of now, there I are some nice looking free agent targets in 3 years.

 

There is no reason to be locked into a player longer than needed.

Uh, Lillian never said anything about Danks.

[Saufley]

Who is John Danks blocking. I am sure you wouldn't mind if the Sox obligation to him was at least one year less. The fact is these guys might suck in 3 years, and as of now, there I are some nice looking free agent targets in 3 years.

 

There is no reason to be locked into a player longer than needed.

 

and they might not suck in three years. If the Sox sign Cespedes and he sucks then I guess we have more to talk about on this board in the future.

Who really knows? God forbid but, what happens if Sale needs TJ surgery in 2016? We just don't know! Can't just keep walking down the street and always stopping to peek around the corner.

 

[caulfield12]

Sure, there's injury and non-performance risk with every player.

 

There's also situations like Swisher, Cabrera and Shark where guys just don't mesh well with teammates or the coaching staff or both.

 

That goes back to KW's famous quote about due diligence. The White Sox typically had limited themselves to 3-4 year contracts under the JR regime, even with their own best guys like Buehrle and Konerko, for this very reason.

 

That said, the free agent market is what it is...overpaying is always going to be a consequence of not having better and cheaper options in your farm system.

 

Nobody forced KW to give Danks that deal...it wasn't even out of desperation, because we had dealt our closer right before that and seemingly looked to be rebuilding or retrenching or retooling or whatever the catch-phrase he preferred to use at that moment in time.

[Dick Allen]

Uh, Lillian never said anything about Danks.

No but he isn't and wasn't blocking anyone either. Things change in 4 years. Things change in 3 years. The White Sox have no position players on their roster that were on the team on opening day 2013. Overpaying just to overpay is fine if you have a $300 million payroll and could just suck up the $25 million or so in 3 or 4 years, but the White Sox aren't that team. Maybe the ultimate price means they have to go 4 years, but it doesn't make sense for them to go there until they have to.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Dick Allen