2016 Democratic Thread

[caulfield12]

Greg, let me put this another way.

 

Would Jesus build a giant wall to separate himself from either non-believers or sinners, tax collectors and prostitutes (let's just say they represent the "rapists" in Mexico)? Or would he welcome them and work even harder to accommodate/bring them into the fold?

 

Would Jesus be afraid of, intimidated or threatened by the Jewish as well as Roman leaders? Or would he attempt to constructively engage with them rationally, intellectually and morally?

 

Right now, Trump is much closer to Hitler in the 1930's or Joseph McCarthy in the 1950's than the being you get upset that fewer and fewer are turning out to worship every Sunday.

Edited January 9, 2016 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

This is a nonsequitir. Millions of people support Trump and millions are "terrible" people? I would venture to say thousands of people who like/support Trump are good people. I bet they donate to great causes, etc. I don't think you need to be a terrible person to support Trump. Some people flat out are sick of politics and definitely want a change and right now Trump is the only candidate certain to shake it all up. You can't tell me some Trump supporters are not, in fact, great individuals.

Nah pretty much by definition if you support someone who is saying what he is saying you are a terrible person. There are lots of terrible people so it isn't exactly surprising.

 

You are also using non sequitur wrong.

[NorthSideSox72]

This is a nonsequitir. Millions of people support Trump and millions are "terrible" people? I would venture to say thousands of people who like/support Trump are good people. I bet they donate to great causes, etc. I don't think you need to be a terrible person to support Trump. Some people flat out are sick of politics and definitely want a change and right now Trump is the only candidate certain to shake it all up. You can't tell me some Trump supporters are not, in fact, great individuals.

To be clear, somewhere around 6% of the US adult electorate supports Trump, give or take. You are really surprised that 6% of the US is made up of people that are some combination of hateful, racist and/or stunningly ignorant? I'd say he's got more bandwidth still to eat up.

 

[Balta1701]

If you think "hey let's create an immigration enforcement gestapo and block anyone from a certain religion from entering this country" is a way of shaking this country up, then who cares what causes you support, you're terrible.

[greg775]

Yeah I think I can. They breathe with their mouths, root for the Packers, and chant USA in large groups. Just the worst kind of people.

No. I like Trump because he's outspoken and says whatever he wants then he denies saying it later. He's like a parody of politics. Most of what he says I feel he doesn't even believe. I'm not saying he's perfect. I am saying a lot of good people just are sick of politics and don't want 8 years of Hillary or Jeb, etc. People also want to feel safe and want to be able to make some money in life.

 

Greg, let me put this another way.

 

Would Jesus build a giant wall to separate himself from either non-believers or sinners, tax collectors and prostitutes (let's just say they represent the "rapists" in Mexico)? Or would he welcome them and work even harder to accommodate/bring them into the fold?

 

Would Jesus be afraid of, intimidated or threatened by the Jewish as well as Roman leaders? Or would he attempt to constructively engage with them rationally, intellectually and morally?

 

Right now, Trump is much closer to Hitler in the 1930's or Joseph McCarthy in the 1950's than the being you get upset that fewer and fewer are turning out to worship every Sunday.

I'm not into the Jesus analogy today. Trump's never going to build that wall. It's all hyperbole. Like I said he makes s*** up. Who cares? They all lie. Including Hillary.

 

Nah pretty much by definition if you support someone who is saying what he is saying you are a terrible person. There are lots of terrible people so it isn't exactly surprising.

 

You are also using non sequitur wrong.

I disagree. I live life by the Golden Rule and try to be a good person at all times. And I like Trump. I don't think I'm despicable because of fondness for Trump's style.

[Balta1701]

No. I like Trump because he's outspoken and says whatever he wants then he denies saying it later. He's like a parody of politics. Most of what he says I feel he doesn't even believe. I'm not saying he's perfect. I am saying a lot of good people just are sick of politics and don't want 8 years of Hillary or Jeb, etc. People also want to feel safe and want to be able to make some money in life.

 

 

I'm not into the Jesus analogy today. Trump's never going to build that wall. It's all hyperbole. Like I said he makes s*** up. Who cares? They all lie. Including Hillary.

 

 

I disagree. I live life by the Golden Rule and try to be a good person at all times. And I like Trump. I don't think I'm despicable because of fondness for Trump's style.

So you're fond for a person lying to you by your own admission? And you think that disgusting lies are ok because they're lies. Congrats, that's awful.

 

"It's all lies. But they're lies about people who look wrong. And in the end, isn't that the real truth?"

[southsider2k5]

So you're fond for a person lying to you by your own admission? And you think that disgusting lies are ok because they're lies. Congrats, that's awful.

 

"It's all lies. But they're lies about people who look wrong. And in the end, isn't that the real truth?"

 

If I hadn't of looked at the person posting, I honestly couldn't have told you which primary leader this post was about.

[caulfield12]

If I hadn't of looked at the person posting, I honestly couldn't have told you which primary leader this post was about.

 

If either Trump or Cruz win, it splinters the party.

 

Cruz doesn't have a single major endorsement from anyone in the mainstream GOP establishment. That's the Barry Goldwater 1964 scenario.

 

The Rubio as Obama change candidate/uniter isn't working.

 

Christie and Kasich remain the most pragmatic options, assuming Bush is done and carrying on to restore some sense of honor or respect for the family name or just hoping to slide back in if Trump falters after Iowa, NH and South Carolina/Nevada.

 

Plus, Trump runs as an independent, Hillary is guaranteed the victory as well (see Perot 1992).

[StrangeSox]

If I hadn't of looked at the person posting, I honestly couldn't have told you which primary leader this post was about.

Both sides!!

[greg775]

So you're fond for a person lying to you by your own admission? And you think that disgusting lies are ok because they're lies. Congrats, that's awful.

 

"It's all lies. But they're lies about people who look wrong. And in the end, isn't that the real truth?"

He's not going to build any wall. He's not going to chase people out of the country. So yes, he's lying. But they all lie. Hilly and Bill haven't lied?? Right now I prefer a.) Trump. b.) Bernie. c.) that's about it right now.

[caulfield12]

It's hard to reconcile Sanders vs. Trump because their philosophies are almost polar opposites...

 

As far as Trump's support only being 6%, you could make an argument if you extrapolated those numbers from the core primary/caucus constituency to to GOP comprising roughly 35-40% of the electorate and Trump polling in the mid 20's, you're looking at closer to 8-10% of Americans being in the Trump camp or at least open to him.

 

If he did run as an independent, he would probably get 3 Republicans for every 1 Democrat, but that's just a guess...similar to Perot when he ran, or Ralph Nader bleeding votes from Gore and tipping the 2000 election to Bush's favor.

 

The other "x-factor" here is Michael Bloomberg. The more the world financial situation remains in chaos, the more pull he will have as the "economic problem solver" candidate.

 

OTOH, North Korea, China, Russia/Syria, Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, the European immigration crisis and terrorism...that doesn't exactly conjure up images of Bloomberg as a diplomat. Still, more experienced overall than GW Bush or Obama coming into office, fwiw.

 

 

[greg775]

If you think "hey let's create an immigration enforcement gestapo and block anyone from a certain religion from entering this country" is a way of shaking this country up, then who cares what causes you support, you're terrible.

Trump may be a bit extreme. So what's your stance on protecting our homeland from all the wackos who want you and me dead? Tell the family members of 9/11 and the Boston Marathon people who lost limbs your plan to protect our homeland, please. Trump's not going to build any wall or go against the constitution. Of course he's lying about that. But a lot of people are fed up with politics.

 

If you think I'm crazy, read this month's Time Magazine cover story on Trump. They maintain a ton of people prefer him over the pathetic group of candidates out there.

Edited January 11, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

They prefer him until they actually have to vote...Cruz will win Iowa, and then Trump's going to be under a ton of pressure to do well in NH or his standing in the polls will start to fall.

 

Of course, the next problem (but likely a good one for the establishment) is that Cruz is unlikely to weather the storm of being in first place for too long, with all the added media scrutiny that goes with it.

 

Everything is still wide open. South Carolina is more the type of state you'd think would favor Trump, but he's still a Yankee/Northeasterner/Democrat and once a friend/ally of Hillary to them. On policy though, in terms of anti-immigration and anti-Arab sentiment, there's a lot more alignment in the South than NH or Iowa, where you have a huge sub-segment voting on religious beliefs...most of those caucus votes seemingly breaking in the direction of Cruz with his superior in-state/county by country organizational strength.

Edited January 11, 2016 by caulfield12

[2nd_city_saint787]

Trump may be a bit extreme. So what's your stance on protecting our homeland from all the wackos who want you and me dead? Tell the family members of 9/11 and the Boston Marathon people who lost limbs your plan to protect our homeland, please. Trump's not going to build any wall or go against the constitution. Of course he's lying about that. But a lot of people are fed up with politics.

 

If you think I'm crazy, read this month's Time Magazine cover story on Trump. They maintain a ton of people prefer him over the pathetic group of candidates out there.

 

So what is Trumps plans to "Protect our homeland?" Ya know, since he's lying about everything. I don't get into politics but I've started to take an interest and isn't it the "Lying" that people are fed up with over politics? Because his lies are so extreme that makes him different?

 

This reeks of the same type of love you had for Ozzie, because he's controversial.

 

I just don't understand how Trump really is a thing right now. I fear for this nation if he gets elected.

 

 

[bmags]

South Carolina has seemed to lean much more toward establishment candidates than Iowa.

 

I know Gingrich wasn't Romney, but he wasn't an outsider in the way Trump/Cruz are.

[bmags]

He's not going to build any wall. He's not going to chase people out of the country. So yes, he's lying. But they all lie. Hilly and Bill haven't lied?? Right now I prefer a.) Trump. b.) Bernie. c.) that's about it right now.

 

Greg, out of curiosity, what do you think a President does?

[greg775]

So what is Trumps plans to "Protect our homeland?" Ya know, since he's lying about everything. I don't get into politics but I've started to take an interest and isn't it the "Lying" that people are fed up with over politics? Because his lies are so extreme that makes him different?

 

This reeks of the same type of love you had for Ozzie, because he's controversial.

 

I just don't understand how Trump really is a thing right now. I fear for this nation if he gets elected.

I don't back Trump as much as I did Ozzie, cause in the final analysis it probably is really bad he's out and out lying about all this stuff. I'm just trying to point out why people (yes people like me) like him when compared to some of the other candidates. I had much more to say about Ozzie cause I knew more about what I was talking about. But still read the Time Magazine story if you think Trump is a fly by night candidate.

[Chisoxfn]

You don't have to be an idiot to support trump, but you do need to be a terrible person.

This is absurd. You think that half of republicans are just terrible people? I think they are misguided people and I cant say I understand how anyone could vote for him, but to just assume they are terrible is absurd too. But yes, if my only two choices on the ballot were Trump or Hillary, I'd vote Hillary. In reality, if Trump is on the ticket, I'll write in a candidate.

[bmags]

This is absurd. You think that half of republicans are just terrible people? I think they are misguided people and I cant say I understand how anyone could vote for him, but to just assume they are terrible is absurd too. But yes, if my only two choices on the ballot were Trump or Hillary, I'd vote Hillary. In reality, if Trump is on the ticket, I'll write in a candidate.

 

WHile I'm sure I can be related to them and share a beer with them, if you are to ask me what you are if you support a man with the highest power in our country because he blames all of your problems on "others" (meaning other minorities, immigrants, etc), you are a terrible person. You are saying that you would rather the country punish some other people so you can benefit. That's a trait I would instill or look for in people I consider "not terrible".

 

That it is so large a swath of republican primary voters? That is not my problem.

[StrangeSox]

This is absurd. You think that half of republicans are just terrible people? I think they are misguided people and I cant say I understand how anyone could vote for him, but to just assume they are terrible is absurd too. But yes, if my only two choices on the ballot were Trump or Hillary, I'd vote Hillary. In reality, if Trump is on the ticket, I'll write in a candidate.

Given the things that are coming out of Trump's mouth, yes, you need to be pretty terrible to support the man.

[southsider2k5]

This is absurd. You think that half of republicans are just terrible people? I think they are misguided people and I cant say I understand how anyone could vote for him, but to just assume they are terrible is absurd too. But yes, if my only two choices on the ballot were Trump or Hillary, I'd vote Hillary. In reality, if Trump is on the ticket, I'll write in a candidate.

 

The irony is that the Dems largely opened the door for Trump. By painting moderates such as McCain and Romney as fire breathing right wingers, they set up the idea that these guys weren't winning elections because they weren't right wing enough, opening up the door for the true right wing fringe of the party. Socially it has made me desert the party, but it sure has empowered the idea that in order to differentiate themselves from the Dems, this is where you have to be at politically.

[StrangeSox]

Right-wing racism and fascism are really the fault of Democrats because Democrats say political things about Republicans! Every single Democratic candidate gets labeled as the most liberal person to ever exist, Obamcare is socialism, etc. but strangely we don't actually see ~both sides!~ reacting in the same manner.

 

Conservatives have been rebelling against the mainstream party establishment since at least Eisenhower and have always blamed losses on "not being conservative enough."

[bmags]

The irony is that the Dems largely opened the door for Trump. By painting moderates such as McCain and Romney as fire breathing right wingers, they set up the idea that these guys weren't winning elections because they weren't right wing enough, opening up the door for the true right wing fringe of the party. Socially it has made me desert the party, but it sure has empowered the idea that in order to differentiate themselves from the Dems, this is where you have to be at politically.

 

This does not follow to me. The democrats were saying that the moderates of the party were too right wing, and those moderates lost the election, so therefore, they needed more rightwing people to be nominated so the democrats would say...that they are centrists?

 

While I believe Romney is a moderate, he was not running on a moderate platform. McCain did mostly, and Bush did in 00.

[Chisoxfn]

Given the things that are coming out of Trump's mouth, yes, you need to be pretty terrible to support the man.

Terrible person, no, misguided or stupid, yes. I happen to think Donald is a terrible candidate though.

[2nd_city_saint787]

What really baffles me about Greg's stance is he doesn't like "Hilly" because she seems b****y, but somehow likes Trump who is a blatant Dick.