2016 Democratic Thread

[Quin]

Let's be honest; both platforms are holier than thou. It's a fundamental part of the Christian Right.

[caulfield12]

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBT7l8mTN...FfXYW3B5ba3d9A-

Trump's plan...basically to try to hijack One Belt/One Road plan from the Chinese

 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEWDTfmTN...5oajPjJr8eHSXU-

China's influence in Asia grows in ashes of TPTP (NY Times)

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/11/19/b...fic-trade-pact/ (NY Times is blocked in China so not sure if this link will work)

 

 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEWDTfmTN...5oajPjJr8eHSXU-

APEC leaders may be looking to China...

http://fortune.com/2016/11/21/donald-trump-apec-trade-china/

 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEWDTfmTN...5oajPjJr8eHSXU-

China plans rival trade deal after Trump victory

Edited November 22, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/11/19/b...fic-trade-pact/

 

 

http://fortune.com/2016/11/21/donald-trump-apec-trade-china/

 

 

China's influence in Asia grows in ashes of TPTP (NY Times)...if someone can post the link, thanks

[Jenksismyhero]

These are not things that happened, no.

 

You may not say it outright but that's what you're inferring when you place the blame of the result on "tens of millions" that voted for him. GMAB.

 

In your view if you vote for Trump you're supporting racism/bigotry/sexism, true or false?

Edited November 22, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[Jenksismyhero]

Forgot about the deplorables thing - got anything else?

 

Throughout the course of the campaign, Trump said racist things about Mexicans and Muslims. Trump mocked a report for having a disability. He was accused of sexual assault by a number of women. People at his rallies were chanting "Lock her Up" with respect to Trump's presidential opponent - and he encouraged that. A large part of his appeal was that he was "not PC." So "deplorables" vs. every insane thing that Trump said and did on the campaign trail...

 

I'm certain that a large number of Trump voters are not racist. Those people may not have voted for Trump because of the racist, sexist, and other terrible things that he said. But those comments were not a deal breaker for Trump's presidency to them. Meaning they didn't think that those comments and actions disqualified him from the office of the Presidency. Objectively, Trump's campaign was embraced by and endorsed by white supremacists. His election seems to have emboldened those same groups.

 

I'm sure there are Democrats that are a-holes and have called all Republicans racist. That doesn't equate to that being the Democrats national policy platform. And that doesn't excuse the election of Donald Trump.

 

ETA: I just want to re-iterate - this discussion began with SS2K stating that the Democrats "holier than thou, anyone who isn't with us is a racist attitude just isn't effective as a political platform." There's no evidence that this is, or has ever been, the Dem's political platform. And even if it was, what does it say about the country that the racist platform beat that platform...

 

I'm not saying it's an official platform of the party, nor am I saying it was an equally offensive campaign. But there was - and is - a sense that if you're not with the progressive agenda it's because you're some ass-backwards white supremacist. I think it's clearly evident in how people reacted to the election.

 

edit:

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3445622

 

its because they hate brown people.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_pol.../white_won.html

 

(from a soxtalk post I made)

 

White people won cuz they hate minorities.

Edited November 22, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[caulfield12]

You may not say it outright but that's what you're inferring when you place the blame of the result on "tens of millions" that voted for him. GMAB.

 

In your view if you vote for Trump you're supporting racism/bigotry/sexism, true or false?

 

 

The bigger question is what would Trump have to do or so to actually have a significant number of his supporters finally turn against him?

 

He said that he could shoot someone in broad daylight in NYC and still win.

 

So obviously, there are a majority of Republican voters who weren't comfortable with Trump, but with even less comfortable with four more years of the Clintons. When does country/unity/stability come over the possibility of remaking the political world a way they were never able to during the last 8 years?

 

This "silent majority" is wary of Trump, and many are afraid of serving under him OR being "too" connected to him in the event he drags the whole party down (eventually). What is the responsibility of this "non-deplorable Silent Majority" in your opinion, IF ANY?

[StrangeSox]

You may not say it outright but that's what you're inferring when you place the blame of the result on "tens of millions" that voted for him. GMAB.

 

In your view if you vote for Trump you're supporting racism/bigotry/sexism, true or false?

The people that voted for Trump are responsible for their votes.

 

If you voted for Trump, you were at least okay with the racism and bigotry and sexism. It wasn't disqualifying.

 

Democrats aren't and really shouldn't be pursuing Trump voters. They need to drive their base an expand it to the tens of millions of non voters.

[StrangeSox]

I'm not saying it's an official platform of the party, nor am I saying it was an equally offensive campaign. But there was - and is - a sense that if you're not with the progressive agenda it's because you're some ass-backwards white supremacist. I think it's clearly evident in how people reacted to the election.

 

edit:

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3445622

 

its because they hate brown people.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_pol.../white_won.html

 

(from a soxtalk post I made)

 

White people won cuz they hate minorities.

 

The president elect reacted to his election by nominating white nationalists for key roles.

 

[bmags]

Seems apropos of how out of touch dems are

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politic...-maps/94233560/

[caulfield12]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/20/this-i...-globalization/

 

Donald Trump is Declaring Bankruptcy on the Post-WWII World Order

 

Very lengthy but quite insightful piece.

[caulfield12]

Seems apropos of how out of touch dems are

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politic...-maps/94233560/

 

So fighting gerrymandering that's obviously politically/racially-motivated is being out of touch?

 

Obviously, in the bigger picture, losing Wisconsin in the presidential election without making a single appearance (HRC) was a fireable offense by her campaign...but it's the insidious drawing of Congressional districts that might have done more damage since the 1980's and 1990's.

[greg775]

The people that voted for Trump are responsible for their votes.

 

If you voted for Trump, you were at least okay with the racism and bigotry and sexism. It wasn't disqualifying.

 

Democrats aren't and really shouldn't be pursuing Trump voters. They need to drive their base an expand it to the tens of millions of non voters.

I'm still waiting for an answer to this question. ... Why is Trump racist? For his stance on immigrants? Is it his fault that the KKK loves him and is adopting him as their leader? I mean he has no control over that. If he's racist, fine, tell me when he did racist things besides wanting the wall.

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/philosopher-pred...-215658929.html

Rise to power of a carbon copy of Trump predicted back in 1998...final outcome projection of that authoritarian figure, not so great

 

 

An era of corrupted business unprecedented in US is upon us...NY Times/Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/krugman-trum...-155433007.html

[Jenksismyhero]

 

The bigger question is what would Trump have to do or so to actually have a significant number of his supporters finally turn against him?

 

He said that he could shoot someone in broad daylight in NYC and still win.

 

So obviously, there are a majority of Republican voters who weren't comfortable with Trump, but with even less comfortable with four more years of the Clintons. When does country/unity/stability come over the possibility of remaking the political world a way they were never able to during the last 8 years?

 

This "silent majority" is wary of Trump, and many are afraid of serving under him OR being "too" connected to him in the event he drags the whole party down (eventually). What is the responsibility of this "non-deplorable Silent Majority" in your opinion, IF ANY?

 

They should oppose any morally objectionable thing that Trump tries to do, but obviously there's a grey area there. Limiting immigration from Muslim countries isn't per se discrimination. Obviously a program that assumes they're all terrorists and need to be watched is. If Trump's going for the latter I would hope the Republicans join Democrats in denouncing such a program. If it's the former I'm not sure I have a huge problem with it.

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

I'm still waiting for an answer to this question. ... Why is Trump racist? For his stance on immigrants? Is it his fault that the KKK loves him and is adopting him as their leader? I mean he has no control over that. If he's racist, fine, tell me when he did racist things besides wanting the wall.

1. The multi year campaign of lies insinuating that the first African American President could not possibly be from this country.

2. The long history of discrimination by his companies, which there is legal record of much of it.

3. Attacking a judge as unfit to rule on a case involving him because "he's a Mexican"

4. Insisting that the Central Park 5, a group of 5 black people charged with a beating and rape in the late 1980s, should have been put to death even though DNA evidence exonerated them.

5. Judging and testifying that a group of Native Americans wanting to open a casino that would compete with one of his didn't look enough like native americans.

6. Retweeting white supremacists at least 75 times during the campaign. The handle "@whitegenocide" would be a giveaway for anyone who cared. During 1 week in January, 62% of the people he retweeted were accounts that fit a description of white supremacist accounts.

7. Confronted with support from the klan in a debate, was unwilling to condemn it, blamed his failure to do so later on a faulty earpiece that only had issues with that question.

8. Appointed Steve Bannon to a special advisory position - equivalent in power to the chief of staff and making him one of the most powerful people in Washington.

9. Appointed Jeff Sessions, who was blocked from a judgeship by Republicans in the 1980s due to racism and noted that his main issue with the KKK was marijuana, Attorney General.

10. Falsely claiming that 80% of white people who are murdered are killed by blacks.

11. Lies about Muslims celebrating 9/11 in New Jersey.

12. Supports racial profiling to "prevent criminality". Endorsed stop and frisk, denied that it had been found unconstitutional when it clearly had been.

13. The entire Muslim ban.

14.“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks,” - Trump called these remarks in a book "probably true" when he was asked about them in 1997. Your own statements suggest that everything published in books must be true for your standards, he even is on record agreeing with that sentiment.

15. "Look, I’m a negotiator like you folks; we’re negotiators." - stereotyping Jews while giving a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition in December.

[Kyyle23]

1. The multi year campaign of lies insinuating that the first African American President could not possibly be from this country.

2. The long history of discrimination by his companies, which there is legal record of much of it.

3. Attacking a judge as unfit to rule on a case involving him because "he's a Mexican"

4. Insisting that the Central Park 5, a group of 5 black people charged with a beating and rape in the late 1980s, should have been put to death even though DNA evidence exonerated them.

5. Judging and testifying that a group of Native Americans wanting to open a casino that would compete with one of his didn't look enough like native americans.

6. Retweeting white supremacists at least 75 times during the campaign. The handle "@whitegenocide" would be a giveaway for anyone who cared. During 1 week in January, 62% of the people he retweeted were accounts that fit a description of white supremacist accounts.

7. Confronted with support from the klan in a debate, was unwilling to condemn it, blamed his failure to do so later on a faulty earpiece that only had issues with that question.

8. Appointed Steve Bannon to a special advisory position - equivalent in power to the chief of staff and making him one of the most powerful people in Washington.

9. Appointed Jeff Sessions, who was blocked from a judgeship by Republicans in the 1980s due to racism and noted that his main issue with the KKK was marijuana, Attorney General.

10. Falsely claiming that 80% of white people who are murdered are killed by blacks.

11. Lies about Muslims celebrating 9/11 in New Jersey.

12. Supports racial profiling to "prevent criminality". Endorsed stop and frisk, denied that it had been found unconstitutional when it clearly had been.

13. The entire Muslim ban.

14.“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks,” - Trump called these remarks in a book "probably true" when he was asked about them in 1997. Your own statements suggest that everything published in books must be true for your standards, he even is on record agreeing with that sentiment.

15. "Look, I’m a negotiator like you folks; we’re negotiators." - stereotyping Jews while giving a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition in December.

 

why bother, greg will ignore this and ask the same question in 2 pages

 

[Balta1701]

why bother, greg will ignore this and ask the same question in 2 pages

Because I don't have to teach tomorrow and there's a pile of field trip reports next to me that I'm not going to grade until the caffeine kicks in.

 

Edit: Oh and many of those will get worse as his other cabinet appointments come out I should note. He interviewed the author of Arizona's "Show us your papers" law for Homeland Security yesterday.

[caulfield12]

Because I don't have to teach tomorrow and there's a pile of field trip reports next to me that I'm not going to grade until the caffeine kicks in.

 

Edit: Oh and many of those will get worse as his other cabinet appointments come out I should note. He interviewed the author of Arizona's "Show us your papers" law for Homeland Security yesterday.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/potential-trump-...-210705539.html

 

This brilliant guy who inadvertently revealed his whole meeting agenda, lol? Guess he took that "show us your papers" part literally or was confused about its intent.

 

All we need is Brownback for the trifecta to go with Pompeo, the CIA Director from Koch Industries, err, I mean Wichita.

 

Maybe an Ed Secretary who will put Creationism back in the textbooks even though Trump could care less but just wants to serve up some red meat to the fundamentalist Christians (along with threatening Roe v. Wade).

[Balta1701]

Maybe an Ed Secretary who will put Creationism back in the textbooks even though Trump could care less but just wants to serve up some red meat to the fundamentalist Christians (along with threatening Roe v. Wade).

Who the F*** do you think they already interviewed for that position? Jerry Falwell Jr. I'm disappointed in you, usually you don't speculate on things that you could easily link.

 

Anyway, yeah a person who teaches geology in Texas would have nothing to fear from this.

[StrangeSox]

Who the F*** do you think they already interviewed for that position? Jerry Falwell Jr. I'm disappointed in you, usually you don't speculate on things that you could easily link.

 

Anyway, yeah a person who teaches geology in Texas would have nothing to fear from this.

 

Also met with Michelle Rhea who was the champion of the scam charter school movement until she failed repeatedly.

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/tra...-htmlstory.html

[bmags]

Michelle Rhea would be much preferable between the two.

 

edit: isn't it rhee?

Edited November 22, 2016 by bmags

[Balta1701]

Also met with Michelle Rhea who was the champion of the scam charter school movement until she failed repeatedly.

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/tra...-htmlstory.html

Lol I don't know which would be worse.

[caulfield12]

I would be shocked if she actually got the position.

 

Too controversial...which is odd to say for Trump. She'd be the equivalent of giving Christie a job. She is an Asian female, so there's the diversity angle, and married to former NBA point guard (mostly the Suns) and Democrat/Mayor of Sacramento Kevin Johnson.

 

Would be preferable to Carson or Falwell, because she at least knows her stuff. Eva Moskowitz, a Democratic charter school leader, has already crossed herself off the list.

 

Having taught/survived four years of inner city/public education, I'm 50% open to SOME of the charter school reforms, but not teaching to the test/performance based incentives, because I've never seen a fair way to account for the excellent work some teachers do with sub standard students in making any progress, vs. other veteran teachers who always get the best students automatically and the worst students get dumped on newbies and they invariably burn out. To me, the best teachers are those willing to do whatever it takes to help everyone, not just IB or AP level classes that can perform well almost autonomously.

 

[greg775]

1. The multi year campaign of lies insinuating that the first African American President could not possibly be from this country.

2. The long history of discrimination by his companies, which there is legal record of much of it.

3. Attacking a judge as unfit to rule on a case involving him because "he's a Mexican"

4. Insisting that the Central Park 5, a group of 5 black people charged with a beating and rape in the late 1980s, should have been put to death even though DNA evidence exonerated them.

5. Judging and testifying that a group of Native Americans wanting to open a casino that would compete with one of his didn't look enough like native americans.

6. Retweeting white supremacists at least 75 times during the campaign. The handle "@whitegenocide" would be a giveaway for anyone who cared. During 1 week in January, 62% of the people he retweeted were accounts that fit a description of white supremacist accounts.

7. Confronted with support from the klan in a debate, was unwilling to condemn it, blamed his failure to do so later on a faulty earpiece that only had issues with that question.

8. Appointed Steve Bannon to a special advisory position - equivalent in power to the chief of staff and making him one of the most powerful people in Washington.

9. Appointed Jeff Sessions, who was blocked from a judgeship by Republicans in the 1980s due to racism and noted that his main issue with the KKK was marijuana, Attorney General.

10. Falsely claiming that 80% of white people who are murdered are killed by blacks.

11. Lies about Muslims celebrating 9/11 in New Jersey.

12. Supports racial profiling to "prevent criminality". Endorsed stop and frisk, denied that it had been found unconstitutional when it clearly had been.

13. The entire Muslim ban.

14.“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks,” - Trump called these remarks in a book "probably true" when he was asked about them in 1997. Your own statements suggest that everything published in books must be true for your standards, he even is on record agreeing with that sentiment.

15. "Look, I’m a negotiator like you folks; we’re negotiators." - stereotyping Jews while giving a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition in December.

 

Thanks for the post.

1.) Haven't a lot of people wondered about the 'birth certificate' thing? I thought Trump finally said Obama is from USA. I thought I heard him say that actually.

2.) Really? I'm surprised he's not broke then. Cause if you discriminate on the basis of age or race or whatever as a business owner, you are in big trouble and can be sued.

3.) If he said that, shame on Trump.

4.) I'll trust you on it. I don't follow everything like I should.

5.) If he said that, again, shame on Donald.

6.) I dunno about that. He's probably twitter stupid if he retweeted that. Cmon, You don't really believe he's a white supremist supporter do you? Now the KKK loves Trump, but is he that evil that he actually loves them back and is a KKK guy? If he is, like I said, he'll probably be in danger and ultimately be assassinated. Lota people out there who would want to harm him (I'm not condoning anything obviously; I want him to live long life as well as Hillary, whom I dislike greatly).

7.) Weak. Again, you believe he likes the KKK? I think he took a good stance on that one, saying he did not want their support.

8.) I don't know of Bannon. My bad.

9.) Don't know of Sessions. Obviously horrifying if you are correct. I'll trust you.

10.) Bad statement by Trump if true.

11.) Bad if true.

12.) I don't like stop and frisk but some people do. You know ... it cannot be denied the military people and cops LOVE Trump and do not like Hillary. He has great support of both groups.

13.) Not famiiar with the Muslim ban.

14.) If he thinks blacks are lazy, that's a problem. I guess he could be like the old people who were on the south side when I was a kid, the ones who despise blacks. If it's true, he'll probably be assaulted. Racism doesn't cut it with people in high office.

15.) I doubt he hates Jewish people.

 

Thanks for the examples. I think Trump is a 2 out of 10 on the character scale; Hillary probably tops him at 2.5 or 3. I do think you are a little hard on him. Again, why does the military love him and why do cops love him??

If Trump is as bad as you say personality wise, then I do the the Armageddon will begin. If he despises all non whites, look out. Thank u for your thorough response.

Edited November 23, 2016 by greg775

[BigSqwert]

I think Trump is a 2 out of 10 on the character scale

 

Followed by...

 

I do think you are a little hard on him.