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2016 Republican Thread

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 15, 2016 -> 10:07 PM)
I get 500 if Trump wins the nomination. That's back from last August.

 

The truth comes out, that's why you support him so much!

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 15, 2016 -> 10:13 PM)
The truth comes out, that's why you support him so much!

It all makes sense!

 

Actually B>W, do you mind explaining your Trump support? I'm legitimately curious. You've said you're happy he's bringing down the GOP establishment. OK. But there's gotta be something else there, no? I've seen you posting here for over a decade, I know you're a smart guy. And I can understand why Jim Bob in backwater Florida is all over Trump. But it's his intelligent supporters, the ones who can actually think for themselves, that I just don't understand.

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QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 15, 2016 -> 10:19 PM)
It all makes sense!

 

Actually B>W, do you mind explaining your Trump support? I'm legitimately curious. You've said you're happy he's bringing down the GOP establishment. OK. But there's gotta be something else there, no? I've seen you posting here for over a decade, I know you're a smart guy. And I can understand why Jim Bob in backwater Florida is all over Trump. But it's his intelligent supporters, the ones who can actually think for themselves, that I just don't understand.

 

He wants that $500!

 

I would be cheerleading for Trump too if I made that bet.

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QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 15, 2016 -> 10:19 PM)
It all makes sense!

 

Actually B>W, do you mind explaining your Trump support? I'm legitimately curious. You've said you're happy he's bringing down the GOP establishment. OK. But there's gotta be something else there, no? I've seen you posting here for over a decade, I know you're a smart guy. And I can understand why Jim Bob in backwater Florida is all over Trump. But it's his intelligent supporters, the ones who can actually think for themselves, that I just don't understand.

Sure. I'll start with the false narrative that Trumps supporters are all redneck white trash, or whatever idea is being pushed around here. The polls show differently (hes won across all demos), so I think people just get confused on how vocal his supporters are. One of Trumps slogans mentions the silent majority supporting him. Theres Probably something to that. I can think of  at least 2 other prominent Soxtalk members who I'm 95% sure support Trump but won't say it. Easy to see why. So far I've been referred to at least indirectly as "retarded", "white trash" "racist" "uneducated" "coward" etc and thats just in the last few pages alone. I don't blame them for not wanting to be on the receiving end of that. I feel I've been a good sport about it, as I cant help but laugh it off. You know how you could laugh at people who said Obama was the anti-christ and would bring us 500 years of darkness? Now it's the same from the otherside. First Trump was Hitler, then he was the KKK, then Mussollini. Just last night CNN compared him to Fidel Castro.

 

Anyways, onto why I support him. I read The Art of the Deal way back when. Terrific, terrific book. It's funny, his whole campaign strategy is laid out in there. You'd think his opponents and detractors would simply give it a read and maybe, just maybe they can take him down. It gives great insight to who he is as a person. Reading a book is hardly the reason I support him now. Just the opposite actually for a time (particularly in 2012). I saw him as a showman who'd do anything to grab his own headlines to the detriment of the party. Now he still is that, but I've learned to appreciate it since the people whose political careers he is ruining are not good people and certainly don't have our best interests in mind.

 

Trump really came onto the scene for me politically about 2 years ago when he came out and exposed TPP for what it was: a trade deal negotiated in secrecy that benefits absolutely no one in the US other than the top line of big businesses while doing nothing but hurting the American workforce. It sort of exposed to me the idea that America has basically become a corporate oligarchy. The politicians in charge do not care about who they are meant the serve. Instead, they're all basically puppets, with every word out of their mouths carefully manufactured by whatever money is funding them. From TPP to Obamacare, nothing is getting passed unless the powers at be basically write it themselves.

 

So shouldn't  I find it ridiculous that the solution to this problem is to elect a man worth 6 billion dollars? Of course I do. But that's where we are right now. Better him than someone who is taking millions each from Comcast, Google, Soros, Koch Bros Goldman Sachs, CBS, etc. Having self interest is better than corporate interest. There are reasons every billionaire big-wig, including his past friends, and media source hate the man more than anything. They fear that, finally, a man they can't control is about to take over.

 

I truly believe the single most important issue of our time is the amount of money in politics and Trump can be the first step towards solving that. I'm sure you'll say, well he can't do it alone, one election wont change anything, and that's very true. It is why it's very important he destroys the Republican party en route to the White House. He's doing a great job of it already.

 

I'm also tired of the neocon foreign policy that has dominated Washington for 16+ years now and has caused more problems than solutions. Under Clinton, I'd imagine that would continue. People like to talk about what the president can and can't do. You may hear "how much damage could Trump really do?" I of course don't think he will do much damage, but this is one area I believe he can change basically overnight. Most other things he wants to change will admittedly be tough.

 

Few other smaller things:

 

-Planned Parenthood: Not that my vote would ever take this into consideration, but  my god, he has such a refreshing and shockingly simple "solution" to this controversy than whatever the hell other Republicans are trying to pull.

 

-Calling for lower taxes on the middle and lower class while closing corporate loopholes. Cool with me.

 

-Audit the fed: lol they'll never let him do this.

 

-Basically supports a different version of Universal healthcare to replace Obamacare

 

-Despite all the hilarious things he called Rosie O'Donnell, he has a lot better track record dealing with women's issues than anyone else on the Republican side.

 

Theres more but this is too long anyways and you've probably quit reading by now.

Edited by Buehrle>Wood

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 10:50 AM)
Sure. I'll start with the false narrative that Trumps supporters are all redneck white trash, or whatever idea is being pushed around here. The polls show differently (hes won across all demos), so I think people just get confused on how vocal his supporters are. One of Trumps slogans mentions the silent majority supporting him. Theres Probably something to that. I can think of  at least 2 other prominent Soxtalk members who I'm 95% sure support Trump but won't say it. Easy to see why. So far I've been referred to at least indirectly as "retarded", "white trash" "racist" "uneducated" "coward" etc and thats just in the last few pages alone. I don't blame them for not wanting to be on the receiving end of that. I feel I've been a good sport about it, as I cant help but laugh it off. You know how you could laugh at people who said Obama was the anti-christ and would bring us 500 years of darkness? Now it's the same from the otherside. First Trump was Hitler, then he was the KKK, then Mussollini. Just last night CNN compared him to Fidel Castro.

 

Anyways, onto why I support him. I read The Art of the Deal way back when. Terrific, terrific book. It's funny, his whole campaign strategy is laid out in there. You'd think his opponents and detractors would simply give it a read and maybe, just maybe they can take him down. It gives great insight to who he is as a person. Reading a book is hardly the reason I support him now. Just the opposite actually for a time (particularly in 2012). I saw him as a showman who'd do anything to grab his own headlines to the detriment of the party. Now he still is that, but I've learned to appreciate it since the people whose political careers he is ruining are not good people and certainly don't have our best interests in mind.

 

Trump really came onto the scene for me politically about 2 years ago when he came out and exposed TPP for what it was: a trade deal negotiated in secrecy that benefits absolutely no one in the US other than the top line of big businesses while doing nothing but hurting the American workforce. It sort of exposed to me the idea that America has basically become a corporate oligarchy. The politicians in charge do not care about who they are meant the serve. Instead, they're all basically puppets, with every word out of their mouths carefully manufactured by whatever money is funding them. From TPP to Obamacare, nothing is getting passed unless the powers at be basically write it themselves.

 

So shouldn't  I find it ridiculous that the solution to this problem is to elect a man worth 6 billion dollars? Of course I do. But that's where we are right now. Better him than someone who is taking millions each from Comcast, Google, Soros, Koch Bros Goldman Sachs, CBS, etc. Having self interest is better than corporate interest. There are reasons every billionaire big-wig, including his past friends, and media source hate the man more than anything. They fear that, finally, a man they can't control is about to take over.

 

I truly believe the single most important issue of our time is the amount of money in politics and Trump can be the first step towards solving that. I'm sure you'll say, well he can't do it alone, one election wont change anything, and that's very true. It is why it's very important he destroys the Republican party en route to the White House. He's doing a great job of it already.

 

I'm also tired of the neocon foreign policy that has dominated Washington for 16+ years now and has caused more problems than solutions. Under Clinton, I'd imagine that would continue. People like to talk about what the president can and can't do. You may hear "how much damage could Trump really do?" I of course don't think he will do much damage, but this is one area I believe he can change basically overnight. Most other things he wants to change will admittedly be tough.

 

Few ther smaller things:

 

-Planned Parenthood: Not that my vote would ever take this into consideration, but  my god, he has such a refreshing and shockingly simple "solution" to this controversy than whatever the hell other Republicans are trying to pull.

 

-Calling for lower taxes on the middle and lower class while closing corporate loopholes. Cool with me.

 

-Audit the fed: lol they'll never let him do this.

 

-Basically supports a different version of Universal healthcare to replace Obamacare

 

-Despite all the hilarious things he called Rosie O'Donnell, he has a lot better track record dealing with women's issues than anyone else on the Republican side.

 

Your very first line is going in the wrong direction. While it isn't "ALL", the Trump camp has attracted BY FAR the largest numbers of these types of supporters. In a study of exit polls they found,

 

-A third supported banning gays and lesbians from entering the country.

-a third of Trump’s backers believe that Japanese internment during World War II was a good idea.

-When asked voters if they thought whites were a superior race, only 69 percent disagreed.

-70% wish the Confederate battle flag were still flying on their statehouse grounds

-38 percent of them wish the South had won the Civil War

-Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s voters disagreed with Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation

-Voters were asked if they favored temporarily barring Muslims who are not citizens from entering the United States, something Mr. Trump advocates, and 74 percent said they did. He won 41 percent of that group.

 

These numbers BLOW AWAY anyone else in the races.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/m...-share&_r=1

 

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Trumps tax plan has massive cuts for the wealthy and shafts the rest of us. He has also said Americans are paid too much. Real man of the people.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 10:57 AM)
Your very first line is going in the wrong direction. While it isn't "ALL", the Trump camp has attracted BY FAR the largest numbers of these types of supporters. In a study of exit polls they found,

 

-A third supported banning gays and lesbians from entering the country.

-a third of Trump’s backers believe that Japanese internment during World War II was a good idea.

-When asked voters if they thought whites were a superior race, only 69 percent disagreed.

-70% wish the Confederate battle flag were still flying on their statehouse grounds

-38 percent of them wish the South had won the Civil War

-Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s voters disagreed with Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation

-Voters were asked if they favored temporarily barring Muslims who are not citizens from entering the United States, something Mr. Trump advocates, and 74 percent said they did. He won 41 percent of that group.

 

These numbers BLOW AWAY anyone else in the races.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/m...-share&_r=1

There is data supporting that a large number of trump supporters if not the majority are lower income, uneducated, white males. Its not like people are pulling that out of thing air.

 

Also trump has self financed about half of his campaign to this point and most likely that spread will start to get much wider as he becomes the nominee.

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Also his health plan is the same thing the rest of the Republicans propose and would kick millions off of their insurance in favor of massive deregulation. You've been duped.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 11:00 AM)
Trumps tax plan has massive cuts for the wealthy and shafts the rest of us. He has also said Americans are paid too much. Real man of the people.

I'm sure people will see the exciting growth of the economy when everyone puts Tariffs on trades going back and forth. Maybe he'll "negotiate" it so well that economics wont apply.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 09:50 AM)
-Basically supports a different version of Universal healthcare to replace Obamacare

 

Where do you see this? From Trump's website, I see that he wants to allow purchase of coverage across state lines and allow HSAs? There isn't anything at his website that seems remotely close to Universal healthcare...

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He's also gotten something like 2 billion dollars worth of free media coverage in this campaign. He's a master of manipulating the media, but that's not a sign of actually getting money out of politics. It only works if you're a billionaire reality TV star.

 

 

Buehrle if your main concern is the tpp, why not support Sanders rather than trump

 

Eta or if your main concern really is money in politics, I'm betting a Sanders or even a Clinton SC appointee will be much more likely to overturn citizens untied than trump would be.

Edited by StrangeSox

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 10:57 AM)
Your very first line is going in the wrong direction. While it isn't "ALL", the Trump camp has attracted BY FAR the largest numbers of these types of supporters. In a study of exit polls they found,

 

-A third supported banning gays and lesbians from entering the country.

-a third of Trump’s backers believe that Japanese internment during World War II was a good idea.

-When asked voters if they thought whites were a superior race, only 69 percent disagreed.

-70% wish the Confederate battle flag were still flying on their statehouse grounds

-38 percent of them wish the South had won the Civil War

-Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s voters disagreed with Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation

-Voters were asked if they favored temporarily barring Muslims who are not citizens from entering the United States, something Mr. Trump advocates, and 74 percent said they did. He won 41 percent of that group.

 

These numbers BLOW AWAY anyone else in the races.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/m...-share&_r=1

You're using exit polling from one state that happened a month ago. Let's throw in the actual demographics to actually address what I said. Trump does great with the "uneducated". He does well with everyone else as well though,

 

He won with college graduates in Illinois, Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Massachusetts, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and Vermont. He's won with post graduates in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts(if were playing this game, that's the smartest people in the smartest state in the country), Mississippi, New Hampshire, Nevada, and Tennessee. Exit polling isn't available everywhere, but where it is he's winning. He's winning across every demographic pretty much everywhere, which is why the attempts to stereotype his supporters as one thing come off as hilariously bitter.

 

 

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I hope trump tells the bullets in pigs blood story again, it highlights how he's primarily concerned with trade policies and isolationism and not at all racist demagoguery

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 11:26 AM)
You're using exit polling from one state that happened a month ago. Let's throw in the actual demographics to actually address what I said. Trump does great with the "uneducated". He does well with everyone else as well though,

 

He won with college graduates in Illinois, Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Massachusetts, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and Vermont. He's won with post graduates in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts(if were playing this game, that's the smartest people in the smartest state in the country), Mississippi, New Hampshire, Nevada, and Tennessee. Exit polling isn't available everywhere, but where it is he's winning. He's winning across every demographic pretty much everywhere, which is why the attempts to stereotype his supporters as one thing come off as hilariously bitter.

 

That is a slight of hand to completely discract from your first statement. His supporters are by the highest numbers holding terrible opinions that would literally push this country back 150 years. THAT is why he gets the reputation, and the fact that he is pandering to that lowest common denominator. You can redirect the focus to whatever talking point you like, but the facts are the facts.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 12:21 PM)
That is a slight of hand to completely discract from your first statement. His supporters are by the highest numbers holding terrible opinions that would literally push this country back 150 years. THAT is why he gets the reputation, and the fact that he is pandering to that lowest common denominator. You can redirect the focus to whatever talking point you like, but the facts are the facts.

You literally highlited me talking about the polls. I posted the polls.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 12:55 PM)
You literally highlited me talking about the polls. I posted the polls.

 

College educated or not, those are their beliefs. Do with that what you will.

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Last night he almost slipped up and started talking about trickle down economics, he had to stop himself and say "Make America Great Again."

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 11:26 AM)
You're using exit polling from one state that happened a month ago. Let's throw in the actual demographics to actually address what I said. Trump does great with the "uneducated". He does well with everyone else as well though,

 

He won with college graduates in Illinois, Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Massachusetts, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and Vermont. He's won with post graduates in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts(if were playing this game, that's the smartest people in the smartest state in the country), Mississippi, New Hampshire, Nevada, and Tennessee. Exit polling isn't available everywhere, but where it is he's winning. He's winning across every demographic pretty much everywhere, which is why the attempts to stereotype his supporters as one thing come off as hilariously bitter.

Over half of his supporters havent finished college and make less than 50k per year. He may have "other supporters" but thats his majority like it or not.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 01:10 PM)
Over half of his supporters havent finished college and make less than 50k per year. He may have "other supporters" but thats his majority like it or not.

So his base is in line with people who voted in 2012? I imagine that's everyone's base because that's the American voting base. 53% of voters didn't graduate college. 41% in 2012 made less than 50k which is actually more than the Newsweek poll I read, which had 33% of Trump voters making less than 50k. Most of these national polls right now are pretty ridiculously inaccurate and outdated though so I won't even use that. I'd look at state by state exit polling if you want to try and tell a story here.

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You want to address any of the shortcomings in your understanding of trumps positions or why you are choosing to ignore the racial demagoguery that's central to his campaign?

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 02:39 PM)
You want to address any of the shortcomings in your understanding of trumps positions or why you are choosing to ignore the racial demagoguery that's central to his campaign?

I understand his positions just fine. Sorry it's hard to reply 10 to 1 on here at work. On the racial side, I've addressed it 1000 times before including conversations with you. I don't think think there's much left to say.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 02:43 PM)
I understand his positions just fine. Sorry it's hard to reply 10 to 1 on here at work. On the racial side, I've addressed it 1000 times before including conversations with you. I don't think think there's much left to say.

I'd say that the closest you've come to addressing his racial demogogeury was to hand-wave away the KKK/David Duke stuff. I don't recall you really commenting on his birtherism, Mexicans=racists/criminals, deport all illegals, ban all Muslims, retweet black crime "statistics" from literal neo-nazis, pigs-blood-bullets, immigrants-as-dangerous-snakes-parable etc.

 

If trade protectionism and getting money out of politics are your primary concerns, why do you gravitate towards Trump instead of Sanders? Sanders also strongly opposes the TPP, and his SC nominees are much more likely to overturn CU than Trump's would be.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 03:18 PM)
I'd say that the closest you've come to addressing his racial demogogeury was to hand-wave away the KKK/David Duke stuff. I don't recall you really commenting on his birtherism, Mexicans=racists/criminals, deport all illegals, ban all Muslims, retweet black crime "statistics" from literal neo-nazis, pigs-blood-bullets, immigrants-as-dangerous-snakes-parable etc.

 

If trade protectionism and getting money out of politics are your primary concerns, why do you gravitate towards Trump instead of Sanders? Sanders also strongly opposes the TPP, and his SC nominees are much more likely to overturn CU than Trump's would be.

I showed the video of his literally disavowing of Duke but I guess that's handwaving away. I found it ridiculous he had to do it every interview. It's gotcha political discussion at its absolute worst. A grand wizard just supported Hillary too but I'm sure she won't be asked about that. And she shouldnt. Stop wasting your breath on these people. This is the reason these discussions go literally nowhere. You're not convincing me and I'm not convincing you here, clearly. I commented on his birtherism the last page back and it really goes hand and hand with everything. You're being played by even giving it attention.

 

I've addressed this Sanders stuff too already like a lot. We're going in circles on everything. I like him. He'd be my second choice. He just has had 0 chance of getting elected and getting threatened by his supporters was a big turnoff for me, but I don't really hold it against him. What I do hold against him was his response to the aftermath of Friday.

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