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StrangeSox

Oregon

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Got it. Thought they just take your word for it.

 

Occupation - "celebrity anti-state rancher"

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Is this now the standard that other standoffs will be judged by?

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QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 06:18 AM)
Is this now the standard that other standoffs will be judged by?

Only death was a suicide by cop? That's a pretty high standard to live up to, so yes. The 2014 standoff had a couple murdered cops IIRC.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 01:15 PM)
Only death was a suicide by cop? That's a pretty high standard to live up to, so yes. The 2014 standoff had a couple murdered cops IIRC.

 

I don't think you are right. They basically refused to act in Nevada and retreated. You may look at all of this as one big situation as well.

 

If we learned one thing from the wire, is that with any criminals you can basically be assured that sooner or later they will slip up. Requires a lot of patience and boredom. I am much prouder of this result than had they stormed the compound, even though they certainly had a right to do that.

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Cell phone video taken from the car to go along with the already released aerial video

 

I guess the lesson to be learned here is that if you spend 5 minutes yelling at the cops "shoot me" and "kill me", then drive past a road block, jump out of your car yelling "you're gonna have to shoot me", and then reach for a weapon inside your jacket...

 

you are going to get shot.

 

 

The fact that they had kids in the car the whole time really makes me sick to my stomach as well.

Edited by Iwritecode

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Mar 9, 2016 -> 08:15 PM)
Cell phone video taken from the car to go along with the already released aerial video

 

I guess the lesson to be learned here is that if you spend 5 minutes yelling at the cops "shoot me" and "kill me", then drive past a road block, jump out of your car yelling "you're gonna have to shoot me", and then reach for a weapon inside your jacket...

 

you are going to get shot.

 

 

The fact that they had kids in the car the whole time really makes me sick to my stomach as well.

 

Don't read the comments on that page.

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QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Mar 9, 2016 -> 01:32 PM)
Don't read the comments on that page.

All possible pieces of evidence are evidence in favor a massive government conspiracy to ambush and kill LeVoy Finicum.

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So somehow the jury just returned not guilty verdicts for these guys. What the hell.

 

All defendants, not guilty on all counts. How is that even possible?

 

guess everyone* has a green light to take over federal property with arms and destroy said property for a month

 

*right-wing white militia types, anyway. Fears of post-Trump loss violence just went up a few notches.

Edited by StrangeSox

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It's got to be strange growing up as a person of color, seeing stuff like this.

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I was so proud that this was resolved *somewhat* peacefully and this is such a slap in the face. But I guess this is our system.

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At this point, this is just the federal weapons and conspiracy charges. Several of the same people still face charges in Nevada for that armed standoff against the federal government, and there's always the potential for the state to file charges (trespassing, breaking and entering, theft, etc.) that weren't available to the feds.

 

Still, this is completely absurd. Yesterday, the jury essentially got the last holdout booted off by claiming he was "biased" and then reached this not-guilty finding very quickly today. Hypothetically, when that juror was replaced they were to start deliberations all over from square 1 with the replacement juror.

 

edit: the guys who took plea deals before the trial started must feel like idiots right now

 

 

edit2: they found "not guilty" for the guy who definitely stole a F&W truck from the refuge and filmed himself doing so and driving it. they were never going to convict on any charges no matter what the evidence showed.

Edited by StrangeSox

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 08:10 PM)
It's got to be strange growing up as a person of color, seeing stuff like this.

Being white has got to be awesome.

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 08:44 PM)
Being white has got to be awesome.

What's that Louie CK bit? Something like "If you have a time traveling machine, and you're a white male, you can go anywhere. If you're not white, or not a guy, DO NOT GO BACK IN TIME. Only go forwards."

 

Sadly not sure how forward it has to be, though.

Edited by farmteam

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QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 07:16 PM)
I was so proud that this was resolved *somewhat* peacefully and this is such a slap in the face. But I guess this is our system.

My exact reaction.

 

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 07:44 PM)
Being white has got to be awesome.

Literally at the same time this was being announced, the riot police were busting up the native American pipeline protests with bean bag rounds and tear gas.

 

Hopefully state still brings down the hammer and gets some convictions, but the state trial would be entirely from rural harney county.

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They should have charged these guys with treason. That would have fixed the jurisdiction problem.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2016 -> 07:52 AM)
They should have charged these guys with treason. That would have fixed the jurisdiction problem.

I'd say it's more properly sedition, or possibly terrorism. But in any case yeah, could have and should have been put at that level. I agree.

 

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This is going to embolden them. Next time, it will be much worse

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How does being white work in court? Do you like tell your defense attorney to bring it up or does the judge already know and they acquit you automatically? I'm curious.

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Oct 28, 2016 -> 08:05 AM)
How does being white work in court? Do you like tell your defense attorney to bring it up or does the judge already know and they acquit you automatically? I'm curious.

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/vid...e-like-me/n9308

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In civics classes, they often made jury nullification out to be kind of romantic, and used to fight broader injustices against clear crimes committed.

 

But man, sure seems like it's mainly used historically to prop up white defendants with racist (deep south) or petty grievances (not being allowed to used land that does not belong to you).

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That's pretty much exclusively what it's been used for.

 

The federal charges were weapons charges for having their guns on federal property and larger, more complicated conspiracy charges. The feds didn't have jurisdiction for trespassing, property damage, theft etc. as those are all state-level crimes. I'm really hoping that the state isn't scared off by this verdict and comes after them hard with all of the state-level charges.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 28, 2016 -> 12:02 PM)
That's pretty much exclusively what it's been used for.

 

The federal charges were weapons charges for having their guns on federal property and larger, more complicated conspiracy charges. The feds didn't have jurisdiction for trespassing, property damage, theft etc. as those are all state-level crimes. I'm really hoping that the state isn't scared off by this verdict and comes after them hard with all of the state-level charges.

What kind of jury would they have to get at the state level? A jury of local residents, half of whom might have leaned towards supporting them when it went down?

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 28, 2016 -> 01:18 PM)
What kind of jury would they have to get at the state level? A jury of local residents, half of whom might have leaned towards supporting them when it went down?

 

Odds are a more favorable jury as the state court jury would be entirely from rural Harney County whereas the federal court jury was from across the entire state, but you never know. The charges that the state would bring are also a lot more simple and straight-forward than a conspiracy case.

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