Dick Allen Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) $1.5M is not much money in this era (baseball wise). That is less money than the Sox gave Beckham last year. Yes, they are rolling the dice on a not so long ago top 15 prospect, but reality is 2014 -6.13 ERA in the NL, and 2015 9 minor league innings pitched. It's not like they have worked with him either as he was claimed off waivers after the season ended. It's a lottery ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Yes, they are rolling the dice on a not so long ago top 15 prospect, but reality is 2014 -6.13 ERA in the NL, and 2015 9 minor league innings pitched. It's not like they have worked with him either as he was claimed off waivers after the season ended. It's a lottery ticket. Agreed. I still think his best shot is potential in the bullpen. Seen plenty of failed starters pan out in the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) $1.5M is not much money in this era (baseball wise). That is less money than the Sox gave Beckham last year. Â And Beckham was on the major league roster the entire season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Unless the Sox see something specific in Fister they can turn around I don't get it. Â I'd rather have Carroll starting games than Turner, Fister and maybe even Erik Johnson. But I like Scott Carroll more than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:02 PM) Agreed. I still think his best shot is potential in the bullpen. Seen plenty of failed starters pan out in the pen. Â I think Aumont is the leading pick up who has a chance at the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) And Beckham was on the major league roster the entire season. As a role player. I do not think the Sox gave Turner 1.5M to be their 5th starter or even to think they can pencil him into the rotation. I think they gave him the money because they think he provides ability to be a potential swing-man / 6th starter in a pinch or get converted to a reliever. Now they might also think he is a bounce back candidate, but either way, a team that is intending to compete didn't make that move to hand him the 5th spot in the rotation. Just like the Sox didn't sign Beckham to be a starter last year (rather to be a role player). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) Unless the Sox see something specific in Fister they can turn around I don't get it. I'd rather have Carroll starting games than Turner, Fister and maybe even Erik Johnson. But I like Scott Carroll more than most.  You'd rather have a journeyman, barely hanging onto professional baseball pitcher like Scott Carroll as the 5th starter than a guy who was the International Pitcher of the Year last year and was a top 100 prospect two years ago in Erik Johnson? You can't be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 You'd rather have a journeyman, barely hanging onto professional baseball pitcher like Scott Carroll as the 5th starter than a guy who was the International Pitcher of the Year last year and was a top 100 prospect two years ago in Erik Johnson? You can't be serious. Scott Carroll did well last year. Maybe I was the only one watching (I don't blame anyone who tuned out) but he had a lot of good outings as the long man. I'm not convinced Erik Johnson sucks or anything, but Carroll has at least shown he can compete at the ML level whereas EJ has not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) Scott Carroll did well last year. Maybe I was the only one watching (I don't blame anyone who tuned out) but he had a lot of good outings as the long man. I'm not convinced Erik Johnson sucks or anything, but Carroll has at least shown he can compete at the ML level whereas EJ has not. Didn't EJ have like a low 3 ERA last year? I think he threw well for the last couple months if memory serves correct. Â Edit: 6 starts, 4 quality 3.34 era Edited January 5, 2016 by hi8is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:15 PM) Scott Carroll did well last year. Maybe I was the only one watching (I don't blame anyone who tuned out) but he had a lot of good outings as the long man. I'm not convinced Erik Johnson sucks or anything, but Carroll has at least shown he can compete at the ML level whereas EJ has not. You weren't the only one watching. Scott Carroll isn't better than Erik Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) You weren't the only one watching. Scott Carroll isn't better than Erik Johnson. I hope you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:08 PM) As a role player. I do not think the Sox gave Turner 1.5M to be their 5th starter or even to think they can pencil him into the rotation. I think they gave him the money because they think he provides ability to be a potential swing-man / 6th starter in a pinch or get converted to a reliever. Now they might also think he is a bounce back candidate, but either way, a team that is intending to compete didn't make that move to hand him the 5th spot in the rotation. Just like the Sox didn't sign Beckham to be a starter last year (rather to be a role player). Â I do not remember the White Sox ever spending major league money on a kid as a safety net at AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:10 PM) You'd rather have a journeyman, barely hanging onto professional baseball pitcher like Scott Carroll as the 5th starter than a guy who was the International Pitcher of the Year last year and was a top 100 prospect two years ago in Erik Johnson? You can't be serious. Â Erik Johnson put up a 5.93 FIP last year in his major league time, and Scott Carroll put up one of 3.68 in an almost identical number of major league innings pitched last year. I am not saying Carroll is the answer, but the question isn't as absurd as it might seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) I do not remember the White Sox ever spending major league money on a kid as a safety net at AAA. Slightly different, but last year Sox signed Matt Albers to minor league deal which would guarantee 1.5M if he made the roster. Way back when the Sox signed Colon to a one year deal, he eventually went AWOL. IIRC, they had a ton of guys who were going to battle for those spots and if Colon was healthy, he'd surely get the spot. From what I remember, everyone sucked, Colon got a spot, sucked, and went missing. A few years later he resurfaced as a stud again. Â Sox also have cut guys in recent years who were owed money and didn't perform and I don't see how this differs that much. Plus, past motive is not always indicative of future motive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) Erik Johnson put up a 5.93 FIP last year in his major league time, and Scott Carroll put up one of 3.68 in an almost identical number of major league innings pitched last year. I am not saying Carroll is the answer, but the question isn't as absurd as it might seem. Johnson did have a 3.34 ERA, though. Â When evaluating such a small sample size, the eye test becomes more useful. Johnson looked more effective than Carroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) I do not remember the White Sox ever spending major league money on a kid as a safety net at AAA. He's a long time target, who they think will be healthy. Here Hahn says he will compete for a starting role and if it doesn't work out, the bullpen is his destiny. It's a $1.5 million lottery ticket. The fluff pieces will be a plenty in spring training, but he's a bullpen piece. Â We feel very good about where he is from a health standpoint right now and where he is in his offseason program," said Hahn of Turner. "We think he could provide us with another opportunity in the rotation come Opening Day. Â "If for some reason that doesn't work out or we go a different direction, then we do think he has the strong potential to help us out of the bullpen as well. It's a guy who we have targeted for a while and now that he is healthy, we're happy to have him and he will be very much in the mix for a spot on the roster." Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) Slightly different, but last year Sox signed Matt Albers to minor league deal which would guarantee 1.5M if he made the roster. Way back when the Sox signed Colon to a one year deal, he eventually went AWOL. IIRC, they had a ton of guys who were going to battle for those spots and if Colon was healthy, he'd surely get the spot. From what I remember, everyone sucked, Colon got a spot, sucked, and went missing. A few years later he resurfaced as a stud again. Â IIRC, Turner isn't on a minor league deal. He got a major league contract for $1.5 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Johnson did have a 3.34 ERA, though. When evaluating such a small sample size, the eye test becomes more useful. Johnson looked more effective than Carroll.  He gave up a lot of walks and homers, and got pretty lucky to have that ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Scott Carroll also didn't mentally collapse and disappear for a year after getting ran out of the majors immediately after his first call up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Johnson is better than Carroll, but the point in Carroll's favor is that strong groundball rate the last two years, while Johnson's 52% FB% last year is very concerning. He got a bit lucky that most of the HR he gave up were just solo HR, so his ERA ended up looking OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) IIRC, Turner isn't on a minor league deal. He got a major league contract for $1.5 million. He is on a major league deal because he was out of options and Sox didn't want to expose him (after all, they claimed him on waivers to begin with). That said, you can still structure contracts many different ways and often times those details don't make it into the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) IIRC, Turner isn't on a minor league deal. He got a major league contract for $1.5 million. The Sox gave Paulino $2 million. He made 4 starts for them and 5 in Charlotte. I also don't think his contract is fully guaranteed until some time in spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) The Sox gave Paulino $2 million. He made 4 starts for them and 5 in Charlotte. I also don't think his contract is fully guaranteed until some time in spring training. It still seems hard to believe that in 2014 we gave 71 starts to Hector Noesi, Felipe Paulino, Scott Carroll, Andre Rienzo, Chris Bassitt and Erik Johnson. That is truly frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) The Sox gave Paulino $2 million. He made 4 starts for them and 5 in Charlotte. I also don't think his contract is fully guaranteed until some time in spring training. Â The signed Paulino with the full intent of his being in the rotation. That is only reinforcing my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glangon Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 5, 2016 -> 06:49 PM) It still seems hard to believe that in 2014 we gave 71 starts to Hector Noesi, Felipe Paulino, Scott Carroll, Andre Rienzo, Chris Bassitt and Erik Johnson. That is truly frightening. Â Combined they probably pitched better than the Shark in 2015, now that is frightening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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