southsider2k5 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Bill Chuck @BillyBall 59m59 minutes ago Sleepy Hollow, NY Among players w/1200+ swings, no batter chased as many pitches as Avisail Garcia (503 in 1250) - See more at: http://tinyurl.com/hu2udwp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Worst starter in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 LOL I don't know if there has been a young guy who has been looked down upon more than Avi. At least not with the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Swing at all the pitches! Seriously. I don't know what to think of Avi anymore. Seems hopeless or helpless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) Worst starter in baseball You take that back, sir! Pablo Sandoval (-2.0) and Chris Owings (-1.4) had worse WARs than Avi's! And if we change it to only 400 PA required, Avi drops from 3rd down to 8th! (LaRoche pops up and goes in to 4th). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Look at the bright side here boys, Sandoval and V-Mart both were -2.0 WAR last year. They got paid $17M and $14M respectively. Hanley Ramirez had a -1.8 WAR and was paid a whopping $19M last season. So yeah, Avi sucks, but at least he doesn't make any money. We could be a lot worse situation like we are with LaRoche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) You take that back, sir! Pablo Sandoval (-2.0) and Chris Owings (-1.4) had worse WARs than Avi's! And if we change it to only 400 PA required, Avi drops from 3rd down to 8th! (LaRoche pops up and goes in to 4th). Surprising, given his defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 There is one brightside - I feel like even 10 years ago we would not have realized how bad Avi was at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppers312 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) it's a BIG "if", but what if Garcia ends up hitting to the tune of .265-270, .325-340 OBP, 20 HRs, 70+ RBIs next season? would people STILL malign him? i guess the reason i ask is because he's STILL young. he'll be 25 this upcoming June and in terms of baseball years he hasn't even hit his "prime." i look at a guy like Alex Gordon (just an example), his numbers his first 3 years with KC are nothing special. he was 23-25 years old. now i'm not saying Avi is the next Alex Gordon, but when Gordon hit 27-29 years old his production went up. i understand we want Avi to produce NOW, but is he really as hopeless as everyone on here makes him out to be? Edited January 25, 2016 by peppers312 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (peppers312 @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) it's a BIG "if", but what if Garcia ends up hitting to the tune of .265-270, .350 OBP, 20 HRs, 70+ RBIs next season? would people STILL malign him? i guess the reason i ask is because he's STILL young. he'll be 25 this upcoming June and in terms of baseball years he hasn't even hit his "prime." i look at a guy like Alex Gordon (just an example), his numbers his first 3 years with KC are nothing special. he was 23-25 years old. now i'm not saying Avi is the next Alex Gordon, but when Gordon hit 27-29 years old his production went up. i understand we want Avi to produce NOW, but is he really as hopeless as everyone on here makes him out to be? It's mainly the deficient hitting with deficient defense. If he is just an average hitter he still needs to be replaced. That said, if he actually got up to .350 OBP he is much more acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppers312 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) It's mainly the deficient hitting with deficient defense. If he is just an average hitter he still needs to be replaced. That said, if he actually got up to .350 OBP he is much more acceptable. maybe the .350 OBP is a bit of a reach, so i edited it to .325-340... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Avi needs to boom on one side of the ball. Right he now, he sucks on both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 12:47 PM) LOL I don't know if there has been a young guy who has been looked down upon more than Avi. At least not with the Sox. Young guys are generally looked down upon on here, if they are on the Sox. An equivalent young player on another team is someone the Sox should trade for. And still, Avi had a higher walk rate than Melky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) Young guys Bad baseball players are generally looked down upon on here, if they are on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Avi surprisingly had the third highest walk rate among all Sox starters last year. Through May last year he had a .323/.360/.445 slash and was .278/.331/.435 in August. If he can hit like that all year he is fine. It's just the .548, .581, .588 OPS's he put up the other three months that made his year look really bad. The kid is a hard worker. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make great strides this year. I realistically could see him putting up a .280/.330/.460 slash line this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) Avi surprisingly had the third highest walk rate among all Sox starters last year. Through May last year he had a .323/.360/.445 slash and was .278/.331/.435 in August. If he can hit like that all year he is fine. It's just the .548, .581, .588 OPS's he put up the other three months that made his year look really bad. The kid is a hard worker. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make great strides this year. I realistically could see him putting up a .280/.330/.460 slash line this year. I just don't think he has the skill of adjusting. He clearly knows what to do but he has trouble applying it consistently. He came out in august pulling hte ball like crazy, and it goes away as soon as it comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I still think he's going to be out there day 1 starting with no real competition. As asinine as it is I think the Front Office still has quite a bit of hope that he's going to be a pretty good player. There's just too many issues in his game and almost no bright spots other than his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) Avi surprisingly had the third highest walk rate among all Sox starters last year. Through May last year he had a .323/.360/.445 slash and was .278/.331/.435 in August. If he can hit like that all year he is fine. It's just the .548, .581, .588 OPS's he put up the other three months that made his year look really bad. The kid is a hard worker. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make great strides this year. I realistically could see him putting up a .280/.330/.460 slash line this year. Yes, I remember well. Half the board was calling him a bright spot in a bad year. The other half was citing his .400 BABIP and warning the first half that it wasn't going to last. Regarding pulling the ball, here are Avi's wRC+ splits vs. MLB last year. Pull: 88 / 156 Middle: 137 / 126 Oppo: 163 / 106 He's just weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) There is one brightside - I feel like even 10 years ago we would not have realized how bad Avi was at this point. I think we would have. He would fall under the category of young hitter with potential. Even the eye test and "old guy stats" don't reveal much current production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Edwards Shot Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (peppers312 @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) maybe the .350 OBP is a bit of a reach, so i edited it to .325-340... I don't see how Avi will ever have an OBP that high when he swings at everything and has no plate discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) I don't see how Avi will ever have an OBP that high when he swings at everything and has no plate discipline. The .325 shouldn't be a problem. To get to .340 or .350 will take some work. Assuming his walk rate , 6% last year, and HBP numbers stay the same he would need to hit about .272 to have a .325 OBP, .288 for a .340 OBP and .299 for a .350 OBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) Avi surprisingly had the third highest walk rate among all Sox starters last year. Through May last year he had a .323/.360/.445 slash and was .278/.331/.435 in August. If he can hit like that all year he is fine. It's just the .548, .581, .588 OPS's he put up the other three months that made his year look really bad. The kid is a hard worker. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make great strides this year. I realistically could see him putting up a .280/.330/.460 slash line this year. I hope he's using all of the free agent talk about the Sox trying to lure one of the big 3 outfielders as motivation. I hope he MASHES next year and makes us forget about Cespedes, Upton and Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) Look at the bright side here boys, Sandoval and V-Mart both were -2.0 WAR last year. They got paid $17M and $14M respectively. Hanley Ramirez had a -1.8 WAR and was paid a whopping $19M last season. Sandoval at $17M for -2.0 WAR and Ramirez at -1.8 WAR for $19M bring a smile to my face because it's the Red Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 02:59 PM) I hope he's using all of the free agent talk about the Sox trying to lure one of the big 3 outfielders as motivation. I hope he MASHES next year and makes us forget about Cespedes, Upton and Gordon. He's going to have to hit at a well above average rate to make us forget the absolutely abysmal defense we get from him. Heck Prince Fielder had a good year offensively last year. But it was almost nullified by the garbage defense he plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Another example of fine scouting by the Sox organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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