Dick Allen Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:34 AM) I think he is a genius. Just because you have a hall of fame QB doesn't mean you are always going to the Super Bowl. Packers have Aaron Rodgers and have been to one Super Bowl. Same with Drew Brees, hell he can't even get back to the playoffs. Payton Manning only went to three and the last one almost had nothing to do with him. The fact that the Patriots have made it to 7 Super Bowls with him as coach in this free agent era is maybe the greatest accomplishment in the history of the NFL. 7 Super Bowls!!! That is just crazy. I will die happy if the Packers can just get back one more time with Rodgers. I couldn't imagine going 7 times. Yes. He's either a genius, or Brady is the GOAT and it isn't even close. I'm sick of the Patriots, but it's amazing what they do, and again, they have more productive 4th round and lower picks, and other teams' castoffs than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:19 AM) Umm they got Jonathan Cooper in that trade who was cut and signed with 3 separate teams this year. He wasn't the Patriots starter. Along with Cooper, they got the 61st pick in the draft from AZ, which they traded to New Orleans for the 78th and 112th, which became starting LG Joe Thuney and Mitchell. It may say more about their skill in finding players, but the draft pick they got for Chandler Jones had a direct effect on their SB win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:50 AM) Along with Cooper, they got the 61st pick in the draft from AZ, which they traded to New Orleans for the 78th and 112th, which became starting LG Joe Thuney and Mitchell. It may say more about their skill in finding players, but the draft pick they got for Chandler Jones had a direct effect on their SB win. Ah I gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 02:46 PM) Yeah...he figured that the best QB of all time can make a good coach look like a genius. I'm fairly certain if you gave Aaron Rodgers to Lovie, he'd look like a genius too, same with a lot of other coaches. Not knocking Bill, but I tend to believe he gets more credit then he deserves. The Pats have made their fare share of bad moves, including the Chandler Jones trade. They also let Wes Welker walk to sign Amedola and in hindsight I think that was a poor move. I tend to think that Belichick makes Brady look better more than the other way around. The Patriots went 11-5 without Brady in 2008 and went 3-1 in the games he didn't play in this year. There's no one better at turning castoffs and nobodies into good players. Would Brady have been the GOAT with another coach? I don't think so. Edited February 9, 2017 by OmarComing25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) I tend to think that Belichick makes Brady look better more than the other way around. The Patriots went 11-5 without Brady in 2008 and went 4-0 in the games he didn't play in this year. There's no one better at turning castoffs and nobodies into good players. Would Brady have been the GOAT with another coach? I don't think so. Belichick doesn't win that Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) I tend to think that Belichick makes Brady look better more than the other way around. The Patriots went 11-5 without Brady in 2008 and went 4-0 in the games he didn't play in this year. There's no one better at turning castoffs and nobodies into good players. Would Brady have been the GOAT with another coach? I don't think so. 3-1 with out Brady this year. But yes, I'm on your side of this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) Belichick doesn't win that Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo though. I'm not denying that, and I'm not saying Brady isn't great. I'm just saying that while I think he would have been a HOF QB elsewhere, I'm not convinced he would be in the GOAT conversation with another coach besides Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:38 AM) Yes. He's either a genius, or Brady is the GOAT and it isn't even close. I'm sick of the Patriots, but it's amazing what they do, and again, they have more productive 4th round and lower picks, and other teams' castoffs than anyone. It's obviously a combination of both. Belichick doesn't make 7 Super Bowls with Smoking Jay, but Brady doesn't make 7 Super Bowls in Jacksonville. I do completely agree with your second point, and that is the most impressive thing the Pats do. Look at Shea McClellin contributing. And when their best players want to get paid, they either accept the Patriots offer or they are left behind and quickly replaced without skipping a beat. Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Belichick without Brady but a replacement-level QB is a perennial playoff contender and probably still grabs a few of SB appearances and maybe even a win. Brady on Jacksonville is lucky the make the playoffs a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) I tend to think that Belichick makes Brady look better more than the other way around. The Patriots went 11-5 without Brady in 2008 and went 4-0 in the games he didn't play in this year. There's no one better at turning castoffs and nobodies into good players. Would Brady have been the GOAT with another coach? I don't think so. People often talk about that 11-5 season. It's impressive, although they didn't make the playoffs, but what is overlooked is that they went 16-0 with Brady the previous season. That's a decrease of 5 wins, which is a lot of wins. He also went 3-1 without Brady this year, not 4-0. It brought him up to 19-19 overall with the Patriots when Brady hasn't started. Would Belichick have been the GOAT with another QB? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) Belichick without Brady but a replacement-level QB is a perennial playoff contender and probably still grabs a few of SB appearances and maybe even a win. Brady on Jacksonville is lucky the make the playoffs a couple of times. I agree with you and that is the thing about football. What if Cutler had any type of offensive football stability. He could be a coach killer but at the same time none of the coaches that were fired ever did anything nor other than Gase were they accomplished they year before they got here except maybe Tice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Brady's numbers were also super pedestrian pre Randy Moss year, he wasn't carrying the team to anything back then. Dude is obviously a great qb and one of the best ever but I'll stick with team Beli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 10:08 AM) People often talk about that 11-5 season. It's impressive, although they didn't make the playoffs, but what is overlooked is that they went 16-0 with Brady the previous season. That's a decrease of 5 wins, which is a lot of wins. He also went 3-1 without Brady this year, not 4-0. It brought him up to 19-19 overall with the Patriots when Brady hasn't started. Would Belichick have been the GOAT with another QB? I don't think so. Most teams with really good QBs have quite the dropoff in wins when they are relegated to their back up. When they went 11-5 it's not like they had the offseason to prepare for Brady not being around. If they knew he would miss the year, the back up would have probably been a better or at least more prepared QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 "He would have never won any Super Bowls without Brady" You could say that with just about every coach. Wouldn't have won without their hall of fame QB. 51 Super Bowl winners. 41 have been won with hall of fame quarterbacks or will be hall of fame quarterbacks. 42 if you consider Joe Flacco a hall of famer. The others had historically good defenses. Bears, Bucs, Giants, Raiders, Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:03 AM) "He would have never won any Super Bowls without Brady" You could say that with just about every coach. Wouldn't have won without their hall of fame QB. 51 Super Bowl winners. 41 have been won with hall of fame quarterbacks or will be hall of fame quarterbacks. 42 if you consider Joe Flacco a hall of famer. The others had historically good defenses. Bears, Bucs, Giants, Raiders, Redskins. Dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:03 AM) "He would have never won any Super Bowls without Brady" You could say that with just about every coach. Wouldn't have won without their hall of fame QB. 51 Super Bowl winners. 41 have been won with hall of fame quarterbacks or will be hall of fame quarterbacks. 42 if you consider Joe Flacco a hall of famer. The others had historically good defenses. Bears, Bucs, Giants, Raiders, Redskins. Joe Flacco shouldn't be allowed near the hall of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:03 AM) "He would have never won any Super Bowls without Brady" You could say that with just about every coach. Wouldn't have won without their hall of fame QB. 51 Super Bowl winners. 41 have been won with hall of fame quarterbacks or will be hall of fame quarterbacks. 42 if you consider Joe Flacco a hall of famer. The others had historically good defenses. Bears, Bucs, Giants, Raiders, Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Joe Flacco is a Hall of Famer. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 WTF is going on in here? Damn, the world we live in today is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) Most teams with really good QBs have quite the dropoff in wins when they are relegated to their back up. When they went 11-5 it's not like they had the offseason to prepare for Brady not being around. If they knew he would miss the year, the back up would have probably been a better or at least more prepared QB. We really have no way of knowing. Brady went 11-3 his first year being thrust in as a starter. He went 9-7 his second year with a full offseason of preparation. There is so much that goes into play. A coach feels more comfortable with a QB after a while, allowing him to open things up, defenses have a lot more game tape to prepare for said QB, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Damn, lot of Joe Flacco hate going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 08:08 AM) People often talk about that 11-5 season. It's impressive, although they didn't make the playoffs, but what is overlooked is that they went 16-0 with Brady the previous season. That's a decrease of 5 wins, which is a lot of wins. He also went 3-1 without Brady this year, not 4-0. It brought him up to 19-19 overall with the Patriots when Brady hasn't started. Would Belichick have been the GOAT with another QB? I don't think so. Sorry...I guess my point was that having Brady helped make Belichick the goat and it also had an impact on Brady being a GOAT as well. I did not intend to compare Lovie with Beli as Beli is better, but more was referencing the fact that if Lovie had a QB like Brady (once he was good...I don't know that Lovie would have developed Brady into the QB he became) he would have also been pretty well. I should make things very clear, if I had to hire a head coach in this league...my three choices are Belicheck (1st) and the Harbaugh's. Pete Carroll would probably be next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:56 AM) Sorry...I guess my point was that having Brady helped make Belichick the goat and it also had an impact on Brady being a GOAT as well. I did not intend to compare Lovie with Beli as Beli is better, but more was referencing the fact that if Lovie had a QB like Brady (once he was good...I don't know that Lovie would have developed Brady into the QB he became) he would have also been pretty well. I should make things very clear, if I had to hire a head coach in this league...my three choices are Belicheck (1st) and the Harbaugh's. Pete Carroll would probably be next. I agree with you. I think they both helped each other out, like say, Walsh and Montana. It just seemed like Brady was getting very little credit around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:04 AM) Dude... QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:13 AM) Joe Flacco shouldn't be allowed near the hall of fame. QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:13 AM) QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) Joe Flacco is a Hall of Famer. Period. QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) WTF is going on in here? Damn, the world we live in today is scary. QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) Damn, lot of Joe Flacco hate going on. I had to check my calendar and make sure it wasn't April 1. Apparently Joe Flacco too is a generational talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 11:13 AM) Joe Flacco shouldn't be allowed near the hall of fame. He's made good money. He can buy a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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