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southsider2k5

2016-2017 NFL Thread

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QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 10:50 AM)
He might go to the Packers. Even though they do not typically sign FA I think he would be lethal with them.

 

I would love this on a cheap deal, but he will likely get more money then they would want to offer.

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I will never understand why a team would say they wont even try. Maybe the market for Forte was weak and he would have come back for a good deal. Its almost always better to leave the door open to something.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:19 PM)
I will never understand why a team would say they wont even try. Maybe the market for Forte was weak and he would have come back for a good deal. Its almost always better to leave the door open to something.

 

No need for pointless speculation and silly rumors to have both parties have to waste a bunch of time on.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:19 PM)
I will never understand why a team would say they wont even try. Maybe the market for Forte was weak and he would have come back for a good deal. Its almost always better to leave the door open to something.

 

 

Because they don't want him on the team next year. Smart teams don't pay 30 year old RB's.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:19 PM)
I will never understand why a team would say they wont even try. Maybe the market for Forte was weak and he would have come back for a good deal. Its almost always better to leave the door open to something.

 

Because Urlacher.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:21 PM)
No need for pointless speculation and silly rumors to have both parties have to waste a bunch of time on.

 

Who cares about rumors or pointless speculation? The Bears are a multi-million (if not billion) dollar corporation. Just because they think Forte may be too costly, doesnt mean that you dont keep the door open and say "Hey we think you are going to get paid a lot more than we can afford, but keep us in mind if that isnt the case."

 

Good companies always keep the door open to good employees. You never know what will happen.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 02:49 PM)
Who cares about rumors or pointless speculation? The Bears are a multi-million (if not billion) dollar corporation. Just because they think Forte may be too costly, doesnt mean that you dont keep the door open and say "Hey we think you are going to get paid a lot more than we can afford, but keep us in mind if that isnt the case."

 

Good companies always keep the door open to good employees. You never know what will happen.

 

This isn't a fortune 500 company. This is a pro sports franchise. They don't operate like Wal-Mart.

 

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 02:52 PM)
This isn't a fortune 500 company. This is a pro sports franchise. They don't operate like Wal-Mart.

 

That really doenst seem to be a good reason. Free Agency hasnt even started, there is no way of knowing what the market for Forte would actually be. The simple way of handling this is to tell Forte that they believe he will likely get an offer that is far in excess of what they can make, but that if it doesnt happen they would be glad to discuss a potential deal.

 

Doesnt hurt anybody and doesnt burn a bridge. But I guess Ill defer to the Bears because they have had so much success in the last 30 years.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:09 PM)
That really doenst seem to be a good reason. Free Agency hasnt even started, there is no way of knowing what the market for Forte would actually be. The simple way of handling this is to tell Forte that they believe he will likely get an offer that is far in excess of what they can make, but that if it doesnt happen they would be glad to discuss a potential deal.

 

Doesnt hurt anybody and doesnt burn a bridge. But I guess Ill defer to the Bears because they have had so much success in the last 30 years.

 

 

They don't care what the market is. They want to play different people at RB. They are moving on. Smear teams don't pay $$ to 30 year old RBs

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:13 PM)
They don't care what the market is. They want to play different people at RB. They are moving on. Smear teams don't pay $$ to 30 year old RBs

 

I bet you were saying that the Bears should get rid of Thomas Jones and keep Cedric Benson.

 

Cause you know, RBs over 30 are always worse than younger rbs.

 

LOL

 

 

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:18 PM)
I bet you were saying that the Bears should get rid of Thomas Jones and keep Cedric Benson.

 

Cause you know, RBs over 30 are always worse than younger rbs.

 

LOL

Bad example. Jones wasn't even 30 when the Bears let him walk. Forte has a ton of miles on him. Spending their money elsewhere isn't a dumb idea.

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The thing about running backs is that probably 90-95% of the time you wouldnt think twice about letting a 30 year old running back walk. However there may be a case to be made that Forte is in that 5-10% range that you really should consider him to be an exception. I tend to lean towards Matt being in the top 20% of running backs in the game though. If he goes to a high octane offense with one of the elite quarterbacks he may just have an MVP year next year.

 

Or he will be hurt most of the year because he is old.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:22 PM)
Bad example. Jones wasn't even 30 when the Bears let him walk. Forte has a ton of miles on him. Spending their money elsewhere isn't a dumb idea.

 

 

Thomas Jones was 29, and the argument isnt about whether the Bears should spend money elsewhere. Its about burning a bridge, its about creating an atmosphere where other players dont believe that they will be taken care of.

 

But again, with all the Bears success over the last 30 years, I can understand why they wouldnt want to run their team like a successful organization.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:33 PM)
Thomas Jones was 29, and the argument isnt about whether the Bears should spend money elsewhere. Its about burning a bridge, its about creating an atmosphere where other players dont believe that they will be taken care of.

 

But again, with all the Bears success over the last 30 years, I can understand why they wouldnt want to run their team like a successful organization.

 

Packers, Steelers and other successful teams would be doing the same thing.

 

 

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:13 PM)
They don't care what the market is. They want to play different people at RB. They are moving on. Smear teams don't pay $$ to 30 year old RBs

 

Yeah, of all positions to be sentimental about, RB is the worst. The hits add up, and those guys fall apart quickly. Really it has already started with Forte seeing his own fair share of injuries. If you want to talk about this being a business, you have to get past the fuzzy fan stuff and realize that Forte is most likely a walking time bomb for the team that signs him next.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:18 PM)
I bet you were saying that the Bears should get rid of Thomas Jones and keep Cedric Benson.

 

Cause you know, RBs over 30 are always worse than younger rbs.

 

LOL

 

yeah, because it isn't like Forte has starting accumulating injuries and missing games as red flags, nor is there a history of running backs quickly falling apart as a young age.

 

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:33 PM)
Thomas Jones was 29, and the argument isnt about whether the Bears should spend money elsewhere. Its about burning a bridge, its about creating an atmosphere where other players dont believe that they will be taken care of.

 

But again, with all the Bears success over the last 30 years, I can understand why they wouldnt want to run their team like a successful organization.

 

Successful organizations are paying attention the relevant industry statistics, and aren't worried about what is popular, versus what is a statistically correct decision.

 

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QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:35 PM)
Packers, Steelers and other successful teams would be doing the same thing.

 

Can you find an example where another team prior to free agency told a player in their prime "We arent even going to attempt to re-sign you at any price."

 

 

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:36 PM)
Yeah, of all positions to be sentimental about, RB is the worst. The hits add up, and those guys fall apart quickly. Really it has already started with Forte seeing his own fair share of injuries. If you want to talk about this being a business, you have to get past the fuzzy fan stuff and realize that Forte is most likely a walking time bomb for the team that signs him next.

 

This isnt about fuzzy fan stuff. This is about business. If Forte walked in the door and said "Ill take league minimum to be a Bear" you are saying you wouldnt sign him, thats just silly.

 

Its not like Forte has an offer of 4 years X dollars and the bears say "We arent going to match."

 

I assumed the Bears would not sign him, I just think its bad business to tell a model employee that under no circumstances will we consider bringing you back.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:39 PM)
Successful organizations are paying attention the relevant industry statistics, and aren't worried about what is popular, versus what is a statistically correct decision.

 

How do you know what is the "statistically right decision" before you know the stats?

 

FA hasnt started, you dont know what the market for Forte is. But if Forte said "ill take league minimum" the statistically right decision would be to re-sign him. The Bears decided not even to wait for the market to play itself out.

 

Again, its illogical.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:39 PM)
Can you find an example where another team prior to free agency told a player in their prime "We arent even going to attempt to re-sign you at any price."

 

 

 

 

This isnt about fuzzy fan stuff. This is about business. If Forte walked in the door and said "Ill take league minimum to be a Bear" you are saying you wouldnt sign him, thats just silly.

 

Its not like Forte has an offer of 4 years X dollars and the bears say "We arent going to match."

 

I assumed the Bears would not sign him, I just think its bad business to tell a model employee that under no circumstances will we consider bringing you back.

 

If you want to run in courterfactuals, can you find an example of where a established franchise star player came back to a team and said they would play for minimum wage?

 

It is a bad business model to invest in statistically bad investments. Signing old running backs is like buying lottery tickets. Maybe one pays off once in a while, but that doesn't mean the odds of it working are anything but small.

 

There is nothing wrong with the Bears being honest with Forte and their fans that they won't resign him. Honestly it is a sign of respect to both Forte and the fans that they aren't going to play games with either, when they have zero intent to bring him back.

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The process of coming out like the Bears did and saying they weren't going to sign him was dumb, even if you think you are not in the bidding, you never know what can happen and it's best to keep all options open. Unless Forte wants to move on and told the Bears I will stay here and play, but it's going to be for a lot of money.

Edited by GoSox05

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:43 PM)
If you want to run in courterfactuals, can you find an example of where a established franchise star player came back to a team and said they would play for minimum wage?

 

It is a bad business model to invest in statistically bad investments. Signing old running backs is like buying lottery tickets. Maybe one pays off once in a while, but that doesn't mean the odds of it working are anything but small.

 

There is nothing wrong with the Bears being honest with Forte and their fans that they won't resign him. Honestly it is a sign of respect to both Forte and the fans that they aren't going to play games with either, when they have zero intent to bring him back.

 

I dont need to find an example. My argument is simply: Keeping your options open is always the best business practice when there is no impending deadline.

 

You are the one who is arguing that it is somehow better for the Bears to tell Forte under no circumstances would we consider bringing you back.

 

 

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:13 PM)
They don't care what the market is. They want to play different people at RB. They are moving on. Smear teams don't pay $$ to 30 year old RBs

I think this is part of it, but they also want Forte to know he is free to do what they want and they want to manage the media perception, by letting everyone know up front what the plan is and giving Forte a good send off in the process and essentially wishing him all the best. It is essentially them trying to be the exact opposite of the Urlacher fiasco.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:46 PM)
I dont need to find an example. My argument is simply: Keeping your options open is always the best business practice when there is no impending deadline.

 

You are the one who is arguing that it is somehow better for the Bears to tell Forte under no circumstances would we consider bringing you back.

 

I know you can make up scenarios with the best of them, and that is kind of the point. There is no reality where Matt Forte is coming back to the Bears for minimum wage. To offer it as even a possibility is a worthless argument.

 

I am also 100% positive that if Forte was willing to play for minimum wage, he would be a Bear, despite the management statements.

 

I wouldn't think their management would actually need to spell out that they aren't willing to pay him a market value wage, and they don't want to insult him or cause a stink with their fans by offering him an insulting contact, but apparently a simple statement will be assumed to be the most insulting interpretation possible by a segment of their fans, so maybe they need to drop their assumptions of the ability of their fan base to understand a situation.

 

I would also think it is obvious that the Bears understand that there is an incredibly high possibility that this is Matt Forte's last chance at a big contract in the NFL, so there is no realistic chance that Forte would be willing to play for a contract small enough to make it worth while to pretend what everyone already knows, which is that Matt Forte is done as a Bear.

 

But no, let's all live in pretend land where Matt Forte is coming back to the Bears as a minimum wage player because IT COULD HAPPEN! (even though it has never happened in the history of the NFL).

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:52 PM)
I think this is part of it, but they also want Forte to know he is free to do what they want and they want to manage the media perception, by letting everyone know up front what the plan is and giving Forte a good send off in the process and essentially wishing him all the best. It is essentially them trying to be the exact opposite of the Urlacher fiasco.

 

This is what the common sense interpretation of what we just saw today would be. A respectful farewell to one of the best players in recent franchise history.

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