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elrockinMT

Loaiza Sick on Tuesday!

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JM knew he was sick. Loaisa even told Farmio he'd probably puke on the mound, so you know he told Cooper or JM something similar.Maybe EL told them he would be ok. But its JM's job to determine that he won't be ok, like after the first inning, or even after the second inning. This is no time to screw around. It was obvious that there was something wrong, looking at him, he appeared to be hyperventilating and sweating profusely. The fact that JM takes 2 extra innings to conclude their was something very wrong is inexcusable. The point is probably moot because the Sox could only muster 2 runs, and it would not be realistic to believe the bullpen could shut them out for 8 innings, but JM needs to wake up. He's a very nice and classy man, but he should not be managing the White Sox.

And Loaiza could have told him on either one of those trips in from the mound that he could not go on. Or does he have to have someone speak for him like Bart, too..? :rolleyes:

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As for Steff's insight, I hope she keeps posting it.  I think it's interesting to hear some insider perspective.  We can all filter out what we believe and don't believe anyway.

She's as much an "insider" as the guy that empties the trash cans in the USCF parking lots every morning. This I KNOW from firsthand, reliable soures.

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OK, let's try this hypothetical...

 

Manuel decides to ignore Loaiza when/if he tells him he's feeling under the weather, but will pitch through it. He starts Garland instead, who goes out with one hour of prep and gets lit up. When asked why Garland went instead of him, Loaiza tells reporters that he was feeling under the weather, but was more than willing to take the mound.

 

Result? Manuel is absolutely crucified in the press, by the fans, and his bashers here. Holy s***, he'd be burned in effigy!

 

Based on the importance placed on telling pitchers when they're going that I saw here after the Buerhle/Cotts decision, I can only assume that Garland would have been less than good going on such short notice. That is unless that was overblown before.

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Well.. I already know that he didn't puke in the locker room before the game.  :P

Then tell us what happened. I just heard an audio clip of JM stating he knew ELo was sicker than just "the cough" that JM claimed he had during last night's postgame interview. Enlighten us all knowing one.

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And Loaiza could have told him on either one of those trips in from the mound that he could not go on. Or does he have to have someone speak for him like Bart, too..?  :rolleyes:

Why does he have to tell him? Can't JM see for himself? Isn't that JM's job? 99% of players don't beg out of games, let alone one of this magnitude. JM apparently has no clue about his personnel.

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She's as much an "insider" as the guy that empties the trash cans in the USCF parking lots every morning. This I KNOW from firsthand, reliable soures.

Oooo.. you got me killa, not :dips***

 

 

Those who were at the tailgate can vouch for a snipit of my "sources". I wouldn't hold too much stock in your "firsthand" knowledge. I'm aware of where you get your info from.. and it's worse than from the trash can. ;)

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Guest JimH

Killa, that's ok, a lot of the stuff that's posted from an insider perspective (real or perceived) is interesting. After all, even if someone is indeed an insider, anything they post is something they've heard, overheard, etc. Or, it may be 2nd hand, 3rd hand, whatever.

 

So it's always subject to the posters' personal opinion. And that's what this board is all about, opinions. I respect hers and I respect yours too.

 

I wonder if the guy who empties the trash over there has to put in a special puke lining? :lol:

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Garciaparra showed up to Fenway Sunday sick. He wanted to play. Grady Little sent him home.

One of the reasons why Grady Little will probably be managing in the playoffs and JM won't :lol:

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Then tell us what happened. I just heard an audio clip of JM stating he knew ELo was sicker than just "the cough" that JM claimed he had during last night's postgame interview. Enlighten us all knowing one.

Where did I claim to know what conversation took place between Jerry and Loaiza..? I didn't. You said you heard he puked.. I asked a question and was told that to the media's knowledge, he didn't. And that if he had, he surely would not have pitched.

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I've read numerous articles this morning and one them stated that Este's sickness was listed on the medical chart that JM gets each game day. I'm assuming that JM would want to talk to him prior to letting him take the mound after seeing his illness on the list. If just watching the game we could tell that he wasn't himself both by appearance and performance, why couldn't JM sense the same thing when speaking to him face-to-face? Notice Este's post game comments, in one statement he says his illness "probably" affected his performance and in another statement said that there was "no way" he was going to tell JM he couldn't pitch. He's a competitor and it's JMs job to sit him...bottom line.

 

And another report I read said that there was no team meeting/discussion prior to this game/series. I can't believe that. If you're ever going to have a team meeting to rally the troops, pump up the confidence, instill faith in your squad, it's before last night's game. No wonder these guys looked dead.

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I asked a question and was told that to the media's knowledge, he didn't.

Then why is the media reporting that he did vomit this AM?

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Guest JimH

It didn't appear they had a hitters meeting on how to attack Radke, that's for sure.

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1. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza's condition.

2. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza would say, as a competitor, that he'd be ready to go and work through it.

3. I know JM WOULDN'T HAVE THE CAJONES to tap ELo on the shoulder, tell him he can't pitch in his condition with the series implications, give the ball to JG, and tell ELo to rest up and get ready for the next game.

 

I agree with all but point 3. IMO, Garland was not the option last night. Starting pitchers have a routine on their scheduled start. Telling Garland 1 to 2 hours prior to the game and then sending him out to toe the rubber could have been devastating. Maybe I'm wrong, but knowing how quirky some starting pitcher are about their game day routines, Jon wouldn't have been in the right mindset.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

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Then why is the media reporting that he did vomit this AM?

I haven't seen that.

 

Send an email killa. Make a phone call. Ask some questions. It's real easy to get answers when you open your mouth and ask questions. As a Sox fan.. in this city.. with this media.. I find it comical that you believe anything they report.

 

For the record.. I get my information STRAIGHT from Dave and Bruce. I'm pretty sure they would know the truth.

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While JM is never FULLY to blame, he is not WITHOUT blame in this one.

Well now.. that sure is a different tune than you were singing a half hour ago at the start of this thread... :rolleyes:

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1. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza's condition.

2. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza would say, as a competitor, that he'd be ready to go and work through it.

3. I know JM WOULDN'T HAVE THE CAJONES to tap ELo on the shoulder, tell him he can't pitch in his condition with the series implications, give the ball to JG, and tell ELo to rest up and get ready for the next game.

 

I agree with all but point 3. IMO, Garland was not the option last night. Starting pitchers have a routine on their scheduled start. Telling Garland 1 to 2 hours prior to the game and then sending him out to toe the rubber could have been devastating. Maybe I'm wrong, but knowing how quirky some starting pitcher are about their game day routines, Jon wouldn't have been in the right mindset.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

Well, then either way the Sox were f***ed. Schoeneweis may have been OK since he pitched decently last night, but we all saw in Boston that Wright cannot start a game. Before last night, Schoensie was also a poor option.

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1. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza's condition.

2. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza would say, as a competitor, that he'd be ready to go and work through it.

3. I know JM WOULDN'T HAVE THE CAJONES to tap ELo on the shoulder, tell him he can't pitch in his condition with the series implications, give the ball to JG, and tell ELo to rest up and get ready for the next game.

 

I agree with all but point 3. IMO, Garland was not the option last night. Starting pitchers have a routine on their scheduled start. Telling Garland 1 to 2 hours prior to the game and then sending him out to toe the rubber could have been devastating. Maybe I'm wrong, but knowing how quirky some starting pitcher are about their game day routines, Jon wouldn't have been in the right mindset.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

Jon's a professional. He should come to the ballpark everyday with the mindset that he is starting. That goes for EL, BC, MB, and whoever our number 5 is from week-to-week.

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The bottom line is when it comes to managing a baseball team, Jerry Manuel is a doofus.

That one can not be disputed.. :lol:

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Guest JimH

Chosk8, good point. The decision on Loaiza starting would've come several days ago so all the guys could get their off-day routines in order. It's very likely Loaiza wasn't sick when the decision was made.

 

The bigger problem is we don't have a reliable, rubber armed guy who can come in and bail out the starter. Shoenny did a good job last nite but he was stretched to the max by going 3+ innings. Especially now, with expanded rosters, we should be able to have somebody down there, like a Sean Lowe type (not advocating him) who can come in and get the job done for 5 innings.

 

Dan Wright is obviously not the guy and they can't afford to experiment with him anymore this year.

 

It all comes down to getting more production out of that #5 starter spot. They haven't gotten any this year and now we're stepping in s***.

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1. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza's condition.

2. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza would say, as a competitor, that he'd be ready to go and work through it.

3. I know JM WOULDN'T HAVE THE CAJONES to tap ELo on the shoulder, tell him he can't pitch in his condition with the series implications, give the ball to JG, and tell ELo to rest up and get ready for the next game.

 

I agree with all but point 3. IMO, Garland was not the option last night. Starting pitchers have a routine on their scheduled start. Telling Garland 1 to 2 hours prior to the game and then sending him out to toe the rubber could have been devastating. Maybe I'm wrong, but knowing how quirky some starting pitcher are about their game day routines, Jon wouldn't have been in the right mindset.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

Jon's a professional. He should come to the ballpark everyday with the mindset that he is starting. That goes for EL, BC, MB, and whoever our number 5 is from week-to-week.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way, not with starting pitchers.

Everyday players, yes.

Starting pitchers, no.

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Garland was told Sunday that he was being pushed back. His routine would not have been altered. He easily could have pitched last night. Of course he would only have been allowed to give up 1 run, because the Sox only scored 2. The White Sox were pretty much destined to lose last night, its just that our manager makes so many assinine decisions, its driving me crazy.

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1. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza's condition.

2. I know JM HAD TO KNOW Loaiza would say, as a competitor, that he'd be ready to go and work through it.

3. I know JM WOULDN'T HAVE THE CAJONES to tap ELo on the shoulder, tell him he can't pitch in his condition with the series implications, give the ball to JG, and tell ELo to rest up and get ready for the next game.

 

I agree with all but point 3. IMO, Garland was not the option last night. Starting pitchers have a routine on their scheduled start. Telling Garland 1 to 2 hours prior to the game and then sending him out to toe the rubber could have been devastating. Maybe I'm wrong, but knowing how quirky some starting pitcher are about their game day routines, Jon wouldn't have been in the right mindset.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

Jon's a professional. He should come to the ballpark everyday with the mindset that he is starting. That goes for EL, BC, MB, and whoever our number 5 is from week-to-week.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way, not with starting pitchers.

Everyday players, yes.

Starting pitchers, no.

I'm not a starting pitcher but I have a routine I go through before work everyday. I'm sure starting pitchers do too..... whether they are starting or not. Otherwise, what's the sense of having them in uniform, in the dugout, every game?

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