BigHurt3515 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Help me understand. I believe in simple terms they voted on having the vote but have an investigation as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Flake is leveraging his vote or nah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, pettie4sox said: Flake is leveraging his vote or nah? Reading between the lines, I think Murkowski or Collins may have said they could be "no" if they dont get the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, Soxbadger said: Reading between the lines, I think Murkowski or Collins may have said they could be "no" if they dont get the investigation. So he is their proxy? WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, pettie4sox said: Flake is leveraging his vote or nah? Hopefully it is remorse over saying he would vote yes, and looking for some cover to vote no, but he is a politician so all bets are off involving morals or ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I think they voted to advance it to the floor, but they also agreed to proceed with the FBI investigation within a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, Jenksismyhero said: I think they voted to advance it to the floor, but they also agreed to proceed with the FBI investigation within a week? Yep, I think they are worried that 2 Republicans may defect without the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 If Kavanaugh has nothing to hide, he should welcome it. "I'll do whatever the committee wants me to do!" His words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 So it seems what is happening is they basically passed his through the judiciary committee but Flake proposes letting the FBI investigate for up to one week. Why pass him through the committee before the investigation seems to be the big question. I think it is because it puts the Republicans in a better position to quickly act after the investigation and the Dems couldn't really stop that in the first place but not pressing him on it shows they are more interested in the investigation than just delaying the vote as long as possible. The next question seems to be how do we know the investigation is definitely going to happen? The answer is we don't because they didn't vote on it and the whole senate will have to vote to start it I believe. However, with Flake saying he wants an investigation and will vote NO without it, it kind of forces McConnell's hand because he could still try to push it through but it lets Murkowski and Collins (and Flake) vote NO for it because they can tell their constituents that an investigation was on the table and they could not vote YES while that was still an option. So McConnell can risk it if he thinks they have enough votes, but considering there was talk they didn't have enough votes even before this Flake thing it would be too risky for him to do that and likely have Kavanaugh voted down. If he really thinks the allegations are false (or that the truth can't be uncovered in one week) it would make much more sense to allow the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pettie4sox said: If Kavanaugh has nothing to hide, he should welcome it. "I'll do whatever the committee wants me to do!" His words! To quote Donald Trump Jr. ...I love it. No way he thought this would ever happen. F Chances are even with an FBI investigation nothing will change. At least there will appear to be some effort. Edited September 28, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, pettie4sox said: So he is their proxy? WTF He is on the judicial committee they are not. He could have voted no out of committee, he instead voted yes but said he'd vote no on the floor vote unless an FBI investigation was done. I'm not sure why that was the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bmags said: He is on the judicial committee they are not. He could have voted no out of committee, he instead voted yes but said he'd vote no on the floor vote unless an FBI investigation was done. I'm not sure why that was the order. Flake isnt voting no. Flake was going to push it through, he got contacted by reps from other senators who said they may say no. And even if Flake said no they could have taken it out of the committee. (this is just my guess its not fact) Edited September 28, 2018 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: Flake isnt voting no. Flake was going to push it through, he got contacted by reps from other senators who said they may say no. And even if Flake said no they could have taken it out of the committee. if he would have voted no wouldn't it be deadlocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, bmags said: if he would have voted no wouldn't it be deadlocked? If he were the only one to cross party lines it would be 50-50 and then Pence would be the deciding vote. What him doing this likely signals is that there were others who were going to vote no or at least wanted this investigation also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, bmags said: if he would have voted no wouldn't it be deadlocked? My understanding (and I could be wrong), is that they dont actually need approval to take it to the Senate. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/brett-kavanaugh-vote-no-senate-judiciary-committee-what-next-supreme-court-confirmation-a8559996.html Quote Yet, even if the committee voted against confirming Mr Kavanaugh, his future as a Supreme Court justice would be far from dead in the water. Senate officials said the chamber’s rules meant the full senate could vote to “discharge” the issue from the Senate Judiciary Committee and instead have all the members consider the nominee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I am pretty sure they don't have the votes without the investigation. Flake isn't just speaking for himself IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I am pretty sure they don't have the votes without the investigation. Flake isn't just speaking for himself IMO. They just said Murkowski was in contact with him before the vote and wanted the same thing. There are the two you needed to make sure he doesn't get confirmed on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: They just said Murkowski was in contact with him before the vote and wanted the same thing. There are the two you needed to make sure he doesn't get confirmed on the floor. Collins is probably the same. Unless they find something really bad, really quickly, nothing will come of it, but hopefully the other accusers are heard as well. At least if we squint our eyes really hard, will have more to go on than, anyone who has ever known me knows I wouldn't do that. Everyone has done something that would shock some that know them. And the only thing that shocked many who knew Kavanaugh at that time was how many falsehoods he told yesterday. Edited September 28, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Collins is probably the same. Unless they find something really bad, really quickly, nothing will come of it, but hopefully the other accusers are heard as well. I'm of two minds on this. One says that internet sleuths were able to figure out the date this supposedly happened in like 10 minutes so the FBI should be able to do some real digging with subpeona power, but on the other hand they probably will not be able to find any real conclusive evidence because it was so long ago so it might come down to whether his friends can hold up and are willing to lie to the FBI for him because then it will become a case of conflicting testimony and at that point I don't think it will be enough for two Republicans to vote no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) Trump is the latest to call Dr. Ford compelling. If she is so compelling, why don't you believe her? That is having your cake and eating it too, as well. And he isn't the only one. Saying yes to Kavanaugh is saying you aren't buying what Dr. Ford said. So not compelling. Edited September 28, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 All the usual assumptions about a GOP Senator who occasionally bucks the party are out the window in the case of Flake. Not because he hasn't flaked out on words-only rebellion before, because he has. But he because he's a lame duck who at present cares only about legacy, and sometimes people like that do odd things at big moments. Like McCain on ACA. This whole things is horrifying but also fascinating, and anyone saying "oh we know how this will go" is just not paying close enough attention to the details. I wouldn't bet either way, I have no idea which way it will go, but Flake is a true wildcard here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: My understanding (and I could be wrong), is that they dont actually need approval to take it to the Senate. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/brett-kavanaugh-vote-no-senate-judiciary-committee-what-next-supreme-court-confirmation-a8559996.html Thanks and this makes sense. I did not think the VP was tie breaker for committee votes, but the idea that committee is just a rule anyway and they can take it up regardless makes sense. Thanks for pulling that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, NorthSideSox72 said: All the usual assumptions about a GOP Senator who occasionally bucks the party are out the window in the case of Flake. Not because he hasn't flaked out on words-only rebellion before, because he has. But he because he's a lame duck who at present cares only about legacy, and sometimes people like that do odd things at big moments. Like McCain on ACA. This whole things is horrifying but also fascinating, and anyone saying "oh we know how this will go" is just not paying close enough attention to the details. I wouldn't bet either way, I have no idea which way it will go, but Flake is a true wildcard here. The interesting thing to me is how Corker acted like he was moving this way then ran backward. There is a sentiment in the republican legislators that doing the right thing is only good when you get a pat on the back for it, and if you still get criticized then you shouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 While I understand this is a rather serious topic, I found this too funny not to post: https://twitter.com/heyitschili/status/1045718359713681408 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, bmags said: The interesting thing to me is how Corker acted like he was moving this way then ran backward. There is a sentiment in the republican legislators that doing the right thing is only good when you get a pat on the back for it, and if you still get criticized then you shouldn't do it. Yeah and again, that was weird too. Lame duck legislators are unpredictable birds, even in the fidelity-above-all GOP of today. True breaking of ranks will be rare, but for those in that position, it does happen here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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