Carlo Paz Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ May 3, 2016 -> 05:34 AM) Rick Renteria. In all seriousness, I would go with Todd Frazier In all seriousness, I was wondering about the effect of Renteria. He was a respected major league manager and speaks Spanish. I don't suppose there is any way to measure it, but I'm guessing he is a very useful asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 3, 2016 -> 08:39 AM) I guess people buy into the new age stats a lot more than I thought they would. Traditionally MVP's of the leagues have been guys who put up big power numbers with a high or at least decent batting average or pitchers who had outstanding years. If a pitcher is bad no amount of defense can save him (see Danks ) Sale is Sale and Q is Q and good defense from the whole team not just Eaton has contributed to his fine start but it's still mostly Sale. I just don't think great defense alone gets you MVP. I mean give me an OBP above .400, OPS around .800, lots of steals, leading the team in some other categories. If you go 1-4/ 2-5 and make all the routine plays but nothing spectacular which is what happens on most days how valuable is that ? I know I am fighting a losing battle here just like on pitch framing but seriously bWar is not the end all be all . Guys like Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Miquel Cabrera , Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays , guys who contributed defensively and offensively are MVP's not guys like Heyward or Kiermeier. I can agree about the new age stats. I still don't really know what some of them are. I tend to look at their production numbers first. Then, for lack of a better term, it's the eye test. What else does the player bring to the team? A guy like Eaton is just doing it all right now. He's the ideal lead-off guy with a great glove, and he's made some spectacular plays. Frazier is another guy who has been extremely valuable. Offensively he's doing what we expected him to do, but he's doing it at clutch moments. Add to that his glove (how awesome is it to have a real third baseman again?) and the fact that he has quickly become a leader of this team, makes him an MVP-caliber player. So, withOUT looking at the stats (WAR, etc.), I put Frazier and Eaton on top of the April MVP rankings, with Frazier inching out Eaton only because of the clutch hits. Maybe the stats support this, maybe they don't. But the numbers and the eye test lead me to this conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 3, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Eaton is too short to have robbed any HR's. Lets not get crazy here. Yes they have won quite a few close games but we could also make arguments that was all a team effort. Good starting pitching, good defense, good bullpen. But the thread is asking who the MVP is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 3, 2016 -> 08:39 AM) I guess people buy into the new age stats a lot more than I thought they would. Traditionally MVP's of the leagues have been guys who put up big power numbers with a high or at least decent batting average or pitchers who had outstanding years. If a pitcher is bad no amount of defense can save him (see Danks ) Sale is Sale and Q is Q and good defense from the whole team not just Eaton has contributed to his fine start but it's still mostly Sale. I just don't think great defense alone gets you MVP. I mean give me an OBP above .400, OPS around .800, lots of steals, leading the team in some other categories. If you go 1-4/ 2-5 and make all the routine plays but nothing spectacular which is what happens on most days how valuable is that ? I know I am fighting a losing battle here just like on pitch framing but seriously bWar is not the end all be all . Guys like Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Miquel Cabrera , Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays , guys who contributed defensively and offensively are MVP's not guys like Heyward or Kiermeier. Eaton has made a lot of difficult plays look easy, and some of his throws have, indeed, been spectacular. I imagine our pitchers' ERA's wouldn't look so shiny if some of the running catches Eaton made went for two bases instead. I agree that WAR isn't the end-all, though, which is why my pick is Quintana. I could pick Sale too, but he's supposed to be this good. Q seems to be ascending to another level right now. He hasn't given up a single homer (!!) and while that is probably gonna change, he's been limiting longballs for long enough now that it seems to be one of his hallmarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (shysocks @ May 3, 2016 -> 07:23 AM) Eaton has made a lot of difficult plays look easy, and some of his throws have, indeed, been spectacular. I imagine our pitchers' ERA's wouldn't look so shiny if some of the running catches Eaton made went for two bases instead. I agree that WAR isn't the end-all, though, which is why my pick is Quintana. I could pick Sale too, but he's supposed to be this good. Q seems to be ascending to another level right now. He hasn't given up a single homer (!!) and while that is probably gonna change, he's been limiting longballs for long enough now that it seems to be one of his hallmarks. Hey I am a huge advocate for defense. Always have been and I am certainly not discounting Eaton contributions in that area. I just think there has to be more than that . He's hitting OK, no power numbers at all and his OBP is above average but nothing elite . The biggest contribution Eaton is making on the bases is not trying to steal because he is terrible at it. Any way so finally someone agreed with me . I had Sale and Q 1-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I am going with Sale. The offense was sputtering but the team still winning because of the pitching and defense. I'll take the guy whose team has won all of his starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (shysocks @ May 3, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) Eaton has made a lot of difficult plays look easy, and some of his throws have, indeed, been spectacular. I imagine our pitchers' ERA's wouldn't look so shiny if some of the running catches Eaton made went for two bases instead. I agree that WAR isn't the end-all, though, which is why my pick is Quintana. I could pick Sale too, but he's supposed to be this good. Q seems to be ascending to another level right now. He hasn't given up a single homer (!!) and while that is probably gonna change, he's been limiting longballs for long enough now that it seems to be one of his hallmarks. I was actually going to pick Quintana too. He didn't start so fast last year, and him continuing his dominance was huge in our start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ May 3, 2016 -> 07:22 AM) But the thread is asking who the MVP is? Right, maybe I misunderstood you but you said he robbed a homerun or homeruns and that's not true so correct me if I did misunderstand you. I just don't like when people say untrue things to heighten their argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 But he did rob a home run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 This team has genuine energy that just wasn't there the past two years. I don't think it's been any one thing, but Frazier's presence is definitely noticeable, and Eaton is far more comfortable in right field. Sale is Sale. I mean. Yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (MEANS @ May 3, 2016 -> 05:37 AM) I'd say Latos, not having two holes in the rotation has made a HUGE difference. That's why he was in my honorable mention because no matter if you think it was smoke and mirrors or things will even out for him we're still talking about just April here. And he was amazing except for the last start, which the Sox won anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ May 3, 2016 -> 07:40 AM) But he did rob a home run? I don't think so but if you show me a highlight of it I will apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ May 3, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) But he did rob a home run? I did see a highlight of him robbing a HR a few days ago but I think it was from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 3, 2016 -> 09:47 AM) I did see a highlight of him robbing a HR a few days ago but I think it was from last year. Maybe that's right. I thought he robbed one against Tampa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 1. Sale 2. Eaton 3. Q! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (daggins @ May 3, 2016 -> 07:52 AM) 1. Sale 2. Eaton 3. Q! Holy s*** you did just what I asked for in the 1st post. Great job. And yes that is a little jab at those of you who listed just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I always have a hard time naming a starting pitcher as most valuable. The comparison to an everyday player makes it almost unfair. Sale of course is a solid pick for MVPitcher but I would give the MVPlayer to Eaton. I want to find a spot for Lawrie besides being the top Canadian Sox player in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 What's the point in starting a thread to ask for people's opinions on who the MVP has been if you are just going to tell them they are wrong for not agreeing with your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 3, 2016 -> 08:04 AM) What's the point in starting a thread to ask for people's opinions on who the MVP has been if you are just going to tell them they are wrong for not agreeing with your opinion? I never said anyone was wrong .I am just disagreeing and stating my case for my opinion. To me that is just good old fashion baseball talk which I like a lot more than attendance or announcers jabber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 3, 2016 -> 09:56 AM) Holy s*** you did just what I asked for in the 1st post. Great job. And yes that is a little jab at those of you who listed just one. Nice, my habit of replying after only reading the first post finally pays dividends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ May 3, 2016 -> 07:57 AM) I always have a hard time naming a starting pitcher as most valuable. The comparison to an everyday player makes it almost unfair. Sale of course is a solid pick for MVPitcher but I would give the MVPlayer to Eaton. I want to find a spot for Lawrie besides being the top Canadian Sox player in my lifetime. I do too actually but in the absence of any one player with outstanding offensive stats I had to go with Sale. Lawrie leading the team in walks, tied with Melky for 1st in OBP and 1st in OPS was why he was my 3rd choice but 1st position player choice . Edited May 3, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 3, 2016 -> 10:04 AM) What's the point in starting a thread to ask for people's opinions on who the MVP has been if you are just going to tell them they are wrong for not agreeing with your opinion? One of my biggest pet peeves with certain posters that do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 3, 2016 -> 08:39 AM) One of my biggest pet peeves with certain posters that do this. Aren't they called opinions for a reason ? They are like assholes. Everyone should have one and be able to back up their arguments . I thought the point of a sports message board was to do just that without being obnoxious or insulting about it which I have not been. If you have a problem about actual good old fashioned baseball arguments/discussion. I don't know what to say. I just saw Eric Brynes arguing with Christopher Russo about Mattingly's decision to remove his pitcher with a no hitter after 7.2 innings. All that stuff is great for baseball. Without a healthy back and forth it's not any fun . Who was better Mantle or Mays or Duke Snider. When there were 3 teams in NY this kind of thing went on all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Aren't they called opinions for a reason ? They are like assholes. Everyone should have one and be able to back up their arguments Not sure this is the phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I know he's hitting .220, but it's hard for me not to say Frazier. His defense, attitude, leadership and power have all been huge for the Sox. 1) Frazier 2) Sale 3) Latos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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