caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ May 17, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) LOL at what this thread became, and LOL at "2 playoff appearances in 15 years." I guess we will just forget that one of those two won the world series, and that 2006 sported a 90 win team that finished in 3rd, and that there were a few other very near misses with 86-88 win teams. During the first 12 years of this front office, the Sox averaged 85 wins a season. The last three seasons have been the definition of retooling, largely due to LH power hitters named Adam crapping the major league bed in an unforeseen way. I think it's more accurate to say that almost every young hitting prospect we've brought up through the system (along with Viciedo and eventually Ramirez) just didn't get the job done. The players we selected to fill holes (Gillaspie, Flowers, Beckham, DeAza, Avi, Viciedo, etc.) were fundamentally flawed either offensively or defensively. The players we traded brought us largely disappointing returns. And the lack of offense, speed, defense, fundamentals and bullpen caught up with the team and induced a losing environment. Then we had hugely disappointing performances from our free agents last year, other than Robertson. We survived simply because of Eaton, Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Rodon, but those five players weren't enough to counteract all the bad. To blame it all on either coaching/managing, talent or Dunn/LaRoche...it just was a combination of systemic failure across the board. Edited May 17, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 QUOTE (JPN366 @ May 17, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) The White Sox traded Gio Gonzalez TWICE. That's a huge fail. Imagine Gio in the White Sox rotation now. Oakland traded him because they weren't going to be able to afford him. Lol what? Every team has trades they regret. So many teams also passed on drafting Mike Trout. Every team passed on Tom Brady... IT HAPPENS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) We're almost to the point where we can field a team of former Sox prospects. Trayce Thompson OF Micah Johnson 2B/OF Montas (granted, he's injured) Chris The Dragon Devenski SP Gio Gonzalez SP Marcus Semien SS Daniel Hudson Closer Chris Young OF Chris Carter 1B/DH Josh Phegley C Chris Large Mouth Bassitt, SP Edited May 17, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hey look, it's the caulfield list of prospects he brings up at random times to say we missed out on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 17, 2016 -> 11:53 AM) well, one poster doesnt support it because Jim Thome was traded for Aaron Rowand and Freddy Garcia was traded for Jeremy Reed. I do it too but I don't know why anyone still argues with Greensox as it's pointless. If you're over the age of 25 then you're worthless, the end. Edited May 17, 2016 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I forgot Phegley and Bassitt, although he's also on the shelf. As to Kylo Ren's point, no, it's not about what we missed out on now. It's the fact that our farm system is actually producing some positive results at the major league level for the first time in what feels like a decade. That's a good thing. It means other GM's will trust acquiring our talent more than in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 17, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) I forgot Phegley and Bassitt, although he's also on the shelf. As to Kylo Ren's point, no, it's not about what we missed out on now. It's the fact that our farm system is actually producing some positive results at the major league level for the first time in what feels like a decade. That's a good thing. It means other GM's will trust acquiring our talent more than in the past. If that's an autocorrect, I will take it. If that's on purpose, well, I will take that too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 17, 2016 -> 07:23 PM) If that's an autocorrect, I will take it. If that's on purpose, well, I will take that too You don't have a choice, Kylo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (staxx @ May 17, 2016 -> 05:27 PM) Lol what? Every team has trades they regret. So many teams also passed on drafting Mike Trout. Every team passed on Tom Brady... IT HAPPENS! TWICE. Once was bad enough, we are talking two times. Trading Gio Gonzalez, the 2007 minor league strikeout leader, for Nick Swisher is like watching your mom get double teamed by Kevin Millar and Guy Fieri. Inexcusable trade. Edited May 18, 2016 by JPN366 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 17, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) We're almost to the point where we can field a team of former Sox prospects. Trayce Thompson OF Micah Johnson 2B/OF Montas (granted, he's injured) Chris The Dragon Devenski SP Gio Gonzalez SP Marcus Semien SS Daniel Hudson Closer Chris Young OF Chris Carter 1B/DH Josh Phegley C Chris Large Mouth Bassitt, SP That team would be a mediocre in the Pacific League. Gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ May 18, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) That team would be a mediocre in the Pacific League. Gross. That team screams first overall pick every year for half a decade. That's just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 17, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) If you go back, the Swisher trade was for the most part highly praised in these parts. Hindsight again has shown how smart people who don't actually make trades for a living can be. Of course it was. And if the Sox tomorrow traded any 3 prospects not named Fulmer or Anderson for an above-average hitter, this board would sing the praises. But people who make trades for a living, would never have traded the org's 3 top prospects for Nick Swisher. Nor would they have traded a top 10 prospect in all of baseball to rent Garcia for 2 months. And they certainly wouldn't have then dumped Swisher after 1 year for a utility infielder and 2 organizational minor leaguers. Except for Kenny Williams... If he had stuck with minor trades and savvy siginings, the Sox would be much better off. Edited May 18, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ May 18, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) Of course it was. And if the Sox tomorrow traded any 3 prospects not named Fulmer or Anderson for an above-average hitter, this board would sing the praises. But people who make trades for a living, would never have traded the org's 3 top prospects for Nick Swisher. Nor would they have traded a top 10 prospect in all of baseball to rent Garcia for 2 months. And they certainly wouldn't have then dumped Swisher after 1 year for a utility infielder and 2 organizational minor leaguers. Except for Kenny Williams... Wait, what? The last time that the Sox had a real top 10 in all of baseball prospect was Jon Rauch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 18, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) Wait, what? The last time that the Sox had a real top 10 in all of baseball prospect was Jon Rauch. Most publications had Reed somewhere around the 20-25 range, he's heroworshipping the hell out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 18, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) Wait, what? The last time that the Sox had a real top 10 in all of baseball prospect was Jon Rauch. Carlos Rodon was top-10 last year actually, but I agree with you *midseason Edited May 18, 2016 by Jose Abreu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ May 18, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) Carlos Rodon was top-10 last year actually, but I agree with you *midseason I never saw Rodon rated this high, but interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Obviously the Garcia trade was made with the knowledge through the Guillen family that he was willing to sign an extension...it would have been a ridiculous overpay had he just stayed for 2 months and left as a FA. It also would have meant no World Series trophy, in all likelihood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The White Sox were also stacked in 2004 and might have won something then had Thomas and Ordonez not been hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 18, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) The White Sox were also stacked in 2004 and might have won something then had Thomas and Ordonez not been hurt. We could say that about 1967, 1977, 1994 (no strike, Sox win the World Series!!! except JR was one of the biggest leaders on the ownership side, that's one area Thad Bosley has a point about sabotaging your own franchise), 2000 (pitching wore down in the second half and offense cooled), 2003 (no 5th starter, Twins took Kenny Rogers), 2004 (injuries), 2006 (injuries/pitchers wore down in 2nd half...Twins and Tigers were unreal in the 2nd half behind quality pitching), 2008 (Carlos Quentin self-sabotaged his season and career), 2010 (Twins had Thome, we had Ozzie's Kotsay-headed monster...Twins wipe us out again, Thome crushes Matt Thornton and they never look back), 2012 (either got tired, were beaten by a more talented team/manager or simply choked depending on who you ask). Edited May 18, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 18, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) We could say that about 1967, 1977, 1994 (no strike, Sox win the World Series!!! except JR was one of the biggest leaders on the ownership side, that's one area Thad Bosley has a point about sabotaging your own franchise), 2000 (pitching wore down in the second half and offense cooled), 2003 (no 5th starter, Twins took Kenny Rogers), 2004 (injuries), 2006 (injuries/pitchers wore down in 2nd half...Twins and Tigers were unreal in the 2nd half behind quality pitching), 2008 (Carlos Quentin self-sabotaged his season and career), 2010 (Twins had Thome, we had Ozzie's Kotsay-headed monster...Twins wipe us out again, Thome crushes Matt Thornton and they never look back), 2012 (either got tired, were beaten by a more talented team/manager or simply choked depending on who you ask). Please don't refer to the White Sox as we or us. You are a Royals fan. And if you are using Thad Bosley as a source....... Edited May 18, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 18, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) Please don't refer to the White Sox as we or us. You are a Royals fan. Come on with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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