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Parents Stuck With Their Kids

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I am one of those kids who are still stuck at home. I suppose that first I'll explain how my individual situation went down, and then explain why I believe this is occurring and what my final thoughts are on the subject from my millenial point-of-view.

 

My parents split up while I was in middle school. After high school, I could live with my mom rent-free if I went to college. If not, I had to pay some kind of rent. I was pretty much an idiot at those times, and didn't care a lick for school so I dropped out of community college. My father was going through some rough times. I won't go into details but I was able to live there rent-free until I was 20, which I'm sure my mom wasn't very pleased with.

Luckily for me I didn't blow off all of high school; only most of it. I had two internships and had classes that built computer repair and networking skills. The second internship turned into a full time job for a little bit after high school until the owner sold the company. I was able to keep my job for awhile, but the writing was on the wall. Around the age of 19, I was laid off.

 

Without a job to speak of, I was pretty much lost into my 20th year. My buddy who was also laid off ended up moving back with his folks a few states away and landed a similar job. He told me they had room for another technician, and I was ready for a change of scenery so I got out on my own! Things were good. Business was booming and after a short adjustment phase at my buddies folks house, we rented a house with our boss and his new wife. This lasted for about a year until things deteriorated rapidly and we had to move back into my buddies parents house. I lived there longer than I had liked, but the job was going south as well and income was becoming tighter and tighter. The hope was to get an apartment, but when I realized the job wasn't going anywhere, I decided to move back to Illinois.

 

Shortly after moving back I landed a retail job with a lot of promise. I started getting full time hours and consistent pay checks so I worked out a rent agreement with my father. This is the point where I could have moved out. I could have paid a bunch more in rent and lived paycheck to paycheck. I could have moved into a big rented party animal house down the street and hated every sober moment of it. But my father had an unused room. I buy my own food. I contribute to household chores and tasks. Finally, I suspect my father would be lonely without me around. The big plus is that I was able to save some money. About a year ago, I started gunning for a managerial position at my job. It would change everything. I would be making considerably more money, and definitely be able to afford an apartment without having to resort to incredible frugality. I'll be honest. I don't indulge myself a lot with material items, but I also want to be able to enjoy some of the money that I slave for. Trips to places like Cedar Point with my girlfriend and visits to my mother (who now lives in Arizona). Nice dinner dates every now and then, Sox games, craft beer, steaks etc.

 

However, I had a realization about the managerial position that completely changed my plan. The first is that the managers in a store work hours that are incredibly demanding physically and mentally. If you've heard of a waterfall schedule, it's kind of like that. An example would be:

 

Tuesday 1PM-11PM

Wednesday Noon-10PM

Thursday 8AM-6PM

Friday 6AM-4PM

Saturday 5AM-3PM

Sunday Monday Off

 

There are some areas of this schedule that are less than ideal for families, and I am a firm believer that your family is the #1 thing in your life, not work. I don't want my relationship with my girlfriend or my future kids to suffer because I work such a demanding schedule. The second realization was that to become a store manager (the head honcho of the store, who makes much more money and can work whatever schedule they like so long as it is 50 hours per week) was close to an insurmountable task for most managers. The first problem is that almost every manager wants to be a store manager. Competition is all well and good here, but the second problem is that there are simply not enough locations in this company. They only open a couple of locations a year, and it's not like current store managers are in a hurry to retire. I've seen firsthand many amazing regular managers toiling away for 10+ years hoping that their name would be called soon for store manager. However, only one location opened in this region alone last year with none that I know of set to open this year.

 

I realized I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to toil away for 10+ years working my ass off, and I didn't want to put my girlfriend (fiance soon) and future kids through that. Call me a lazy millenial if you wish, but I simply do not view it that way. My girlfriend is finishing up her bachelors and is in the process of deciding whether or not to go for a masters. She will be working some kind of 9-5 job Monday through Friday. My weird managerial schedule just would not jive with hers. So I made the decision to go back to school and continue working part-time at my retail job.

 

I wish I had decided to go back to school earlier; I am 28 years old now. It is what it is, though. The retail job for store employees is actually fantastic. In 5 years I went from $10.50/hour to $17.35/hour. They offer retirement packages so I opted into one awhile ago and have been building it up. These benefits kept me chugging along as a store employee without giving a thought to schooling. Boredom has started to creep in, though, as well as a revitalized urge to continue bettering myself. With some of my savings, I am able to finance my schooling at community college for the time being. Subsidized loans and the American Opportunity Tax Credit help immensly. I also hope to qualify for a Pell Grant next year. I still live at my dads, and I wanted it to be clear and okay with him that while I am going back to school, I will be working less (which should help me qualify for a Pell Grant). We arranged a new rent agreement, and he supports me in my quest for an education. It is certain that after I get my bachelors or maybe even my associates that I will be moving out and getting a place with my girlfriend, and finally stop bothering my father by living with him for so long. :D

 

 

Greg, I heard that statistic that you mentioned as well on a newsflash from WDCB 90.9. Despite who or what you may listen to, the statistic is real. I think that a lot of parents are recognizing that the economic landscape of today is not as good as when they were our age, so they give their young adults more leash. Both of my parents never completed college and they were able to buy a house and other nice things. This is just not possible today. In my composition class, I wrote a paper about how I believe many Americans are overworked and in my paper I discuss how the cost of living has risen, productivity has risen and at the same time wages have remained relatively stagnant. At the same time, the rich keep getting richer and wealth inequality continues to worsen, which is another contributing factor. There's a lot of good information here if you care to look: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ If anyone is interested in reading my paper, I'm rather proud of it and would love to share it with you. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail you a copy.

 

I can't speak for all millenials, just myself, but I am not going to perpetuate society down that path. I place real value on my free time and I will fight for a society that accepts free time as part of our culture. I surmise that a lot of what is perceived to be "lazy millenials", like those who expect inflated vacation time simply have a different way of viewing life in general, perhaps similar to mine. For sure, as things are now, employers now who are old school are going to hire those who don't want vacation time or inflated free time. That's just how it is right now. If I am correct, and many millenials view things as I do, then eventually society will shift as the millenials become the dominant generation. I think this is a really good thing as I believe that America is trending towards being overworked. Somethings going to have to give, and if it is a generation that all the super hard workers view as lazy, entitled brats that shifts America from overworking themselves to something better for future generations, then I think that is great. I don't want my children to grow up in a country where it is expected to basically live to work. I want them to be able to work hard, get what they deserve for it, and also have enough time for their families and to grow themselves individually.

Edited by South Sider

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ May 27, 2016 -> 11:23 AM)
I have a confession.

 

One time when I was 11 years old I was offered, and accepted, a participation trophy for playing Little League that year. My team was in second place and I didn't really do anything special to stand out. As a result, my entire life from that point forward (high school achievements, my internship, being a manager at Blockbuster, my military career, college, my current job) has been a fraud.

 

I would like to apologize to my teammates (even though they, too, accepted the same trophies), my parents, James Harrison, and Donald Trump. I let you all down.

 

I received a t-shirt. I wore it with pride before I knew that every kid just got one.

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I remember vividly when my baseball team lost the championship game one year and we got a second place trophy. The next day I threw it in the trash cause I was so disgusted that we didn't win (and I gave up the only grand slam of my pitching career in that game).To think what Soxtalk would have said when I came in with the bases loaded, threw one pitch, and welp, 4 runs scored (I had hit my innings / pitch limit so couldn't start the game). We had already lost but I assured there was no possible way of a comeback. I suppose I would have been the Duke of littleleague talk for the day, haha.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2016 -> 11:36 AM)
Is that from like all the schools they applied to? That seems absurdly high.

 

The 1.2 was a full ride to the Air Force Academy. There were full rides to several Ivy league schools. I think the numbers get inflated by the schools for publicity when a student receives a full ride. They pick the absolute most a student could spend at their university and report that. So you could spend $10,000 on books.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2016 -> 11:36 AM)
Is that from like all the schools they applied to? That seems absurdly high.

I think it has to be. That's how my school tallied scholarship money that was "awarded" to students. It wasn't what you actually took with you - it was a sum of what you were offered by every school.

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QUOTE (Tex @ May 27, 2016 -> 09:45 AM)
The 1.2 was a full ride to the Air Force Academy. There were full rides to several Ivy league schools. I think the numbers get inflated by the schools for publicity when a student receives a full ride. They pick the absolute most a student could spend at their university and report that. So you could spend $10,000 on books.

I always presumed Airforce academy was free for everyone that attended (with the real challenge actually getting in cause those academies are great schools). Holy moly, what a cost. My entire college experience (since I lived at home) was

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2016 -> 10:46 AM)
I always presumed Airforce academy was free for everyone that attended (with the real challenge actually getting in cause those academies are great schools). Holy moly, what a cost. My entire college experience (since I lived at home) was

It is. That's just the valuation of what that education would cost if they had to pay for it.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2016 -> 11:43 AM)
I remember vividly when my baseball team lost the championship game one year and we got a second place trophy. The next day I threw it in the trash cause I was so disgusted that we didn't win (and I gave up the only grand slam of my pitching career in that game).To think what Soxtalk would have said when I came in with the bases loaded, threw one pitch, and welp, 4 runs scored (I had hit my innings / pitch limit so couldn't start the game). We had already lost but I assured there was no possible way of a comeback. I suppose I would have been the Duke of littleleague talk for the day, haha.

 

One year my travelling team finished as co-champs because our league all-star team had advanced to a national tournament. Strike one for that trophy. At our banquet a prominent Cubs player Don Kessinger automatically autographed all the trophies, temporarily strike 2.

 

I still have it.

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I have a handful of trophies from my childhood. Probably about 5 of what people would call "participation trophies" (which even as a kid I knew what they meant - it's associated with the experience of playing on the team, not achievement) and then there's a bunch of trophies, plaques, and medals I got from winning at various things. I knew the difference cuz I wasn't an idiot. I was better at certain things than I was other things.

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To me, and most kids I know, they are souvenirs.

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QUOTE (Tex @ May 27, 2016 -> 01:04 PM)
To me, and most kids I know, they are souvenirs.

Exactly.

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ May 27, 2016 -> 10:56 AM)
I have a handful of trophies from my childhood. Probably about 5 of what people would call "participation trophies" (which even as a kid I knew what they meant - it's associated with the experience of playing on the team, not achievement) and then there's a bunch of trophies, plaques, and medals I got from winning at various things. I knew the difference cuz I wasn't an idiot. I was better at certain things than I was other things.

 

Yeah, I really don't see the problem with giving a 10 year old an award for finishing a season of Little League or whatever. Sports at that age should have an emphasis on learning the skills and doing stuff the right way - not on wins and losses.

 

Case in point, when I was probably 9 or 10, our Little League had a deal with a local baseball card shop. Each kid that won a game ball got a coupon for a free pack of cards or something. My team's manager gave every kid a game ball at some point during the season. I distinctly remember being pissed because I had a great game and didn't get the game ball - the kid who was the worst player on our team got the game ball because he hit a double. It was objectively the highlight of that kid's season, and probably the only time he made a positive play all year. My Dad let me have it on the ride home for being a jerk about not getting the game ball.

 

Now, I look back on that and respect the manager for rewarding that kid for making a play. He was there every practice and every game despite clearly not being a coordinated kid. I don't see the issue with rewarding what was essentially a participation trophy for that kid (and this was in the early 90s, so let's not pretend like awards for youth sports participation are a new phenomena).

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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ May 27, 2016 -> 01:18 PM)
Yeah, I really don't see the problem with giving a 10 year old an award for finishing a season of Little League or whatever. Sports at that age should have an emphasis on learning the skills and doing stuff the right way - not on wins and losses.

 

Case in point, when I was probably 9 or 10, our Little League had a deal with a local baseball card shop. Each kid that won a game ball got a coupon for a free pack of cards or something. My team's manager gave every kid a game ball at some point during the season. I distinctly remember being pissed because I had a great game and didn't get the game ball - the kid who was the worst player on our team got the game ball because he hit a double. It was objectively the highlight of that kid's season, and probably the only time he made a positive play all year. My Dad let me have it on the ride home for being a jerk about not getting the game ball.

 

Now, I look back on that and respect the manager for rewarding that kid for making a play. He was there every practice and every game despite clearly not being a coordinated kid. I don't see the issue with rewarding what was essentially a participation trophy for that kid (and this was in the early 90s, so let's not pretend like awards for youth sports participation are a new phenomena).

I've been coaching for a couple years. This is absolutely true.

 

That kid might have been me, I sucked when I first started playing baseball and I got a game ball for hitting a double late in the season, lol.

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ May 27, 2016 -> 10:10 AM)
Exactly.

Agreed. I still have a few. The ones I kept were the ones which most symbolized something for me.

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I was horrible at baseball, stuck in RF until I focused on sports I was better at. My main regret was not playing basketball as that's one of the few sports you can get a pick up game to now. I'm going to let my kid know that.

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About half of my players are on the golf team because "it is a sport they can play for the rest of their lives". I coach them much differently than the rest of my competitive team.

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QUOTE (South Sider @ May 27, 2016 -> 11:37 AM)
I am one of those kids who are still stuck at home. I suppose that first I'll explain how my individual situation went down, and then explain why I believe this is occurring and what my final thoughts are on the subject from my millenial point-of-view.

 

My parents split up while I was in middle school. After high school, I could live with my mom rent-free if I went to college. If not, I had to pay some kind of rent. I was pretty much an idiot at those times, and didn't care a lick for school so I dropped out of community college. My father was going through some rough times. I won't go into details but I was able to live there rent-free until I was 20, which I'm sure my mom wasn't very pleased with.

Luckily for me I didn't blow off all of high school; only most of it. I had two internships and had classes that built computer repair and networking skills. The second internship turned into a full time job for a little bit after high school until the owner sold the company. I was able to keep my job for awhile, but the writing was on the wall. Around the age of 19, I was laid off.

 

Without a job to speak of, I was pretty much lost into my 20th year. My buddy who was also laid off ended up moving back with his folks a few states away and landed a similar job. He told me they had room for another technician, and I was ready for a change of scenery so I got out on my own! Things were good. Business was booming and after a short adjustment phase at my buddies folks house, we rented a house with our boss and his new wife. This lasted for about a year until things deteriorated rapidly and we had to move back into my buddies parents house. I lived there longer than I had liked, but the job was going south as well and income was becoming tighter and tighter. The hope was to get an apartment, but when I realized the job wasn't going anywhere, I decided to move back to Illinois.

 

Shortly after moving back I landed a retail job with a lot of promise. I started getting full time hours and consistent pay checks so I worked out a rent agreement with my father. This is the point where I could have moved out. I could have paid a bunch more in rent and lived paycheck to paycheck. I could have moved into a big rented party animal house down the street and hated every sober moment of it. But my father had an unused room. I buy my own food. I contribute to household chores and tasks. Finally, I suspect my father would be lonely without me around. The big plus is that I was able to save some money. About a year ago, I started gunning for a managerial position at my job. It would change everything. I would be making considerably more money, and definitely be able to afford an apartment without having to resort to incredible frugality. I'll be honest. I don't indulge myself a lot with material items, but I also want to be able to enjoy some of the money that I slave for. Trips to places like Cedar Point with my girlfriend and visits to my mother (who now lives in Arizona). Nice dinner dates every now and then, Sox games, craft beer, steaks etc.

 

However, I had a realization about the managerial position that completely changed my plan. The first is that the managers in a store work hours that are incredibly demanding physically and mentally. If you've heard of a waterfall schedule, it's kind of like that. An example would be:

 

Tuesday 1PM-11PM

Wednesday Noon-10PM

Thursday 8AM-6PM

Friday 6AM-4PM

Saturday 5AM-3PM

Sunday Monday Off

 

There are some areas of this schedule that are less than ideal for families, and I am a firm believer that your family is the #1 thing in your life, not work. I don't want my relationship with my girlfriend or my future kids to suffer because I work such a demanding schedule. The second realization was that to become a store manager (the head honcho of the store, who makes much more money and can work whatever schedule they like so long as it is 50 hours per week) was close to an insurmountable task for most managers. The first problem is that almost every manager wants to be a store manager. Competition is all well and good here, but the second problem is that there are simply not enough locations in this company. They only open a couple of locations a year, and it's not like current store managers are in a hurry to retire. I've seen firsthand many amazing regular managers toiling away for 10+ years hoping that their name would be called soon for store manager. However, only one location opened in this region alone last year with none that I know of set to open this year.

 

I realized I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to toil away for 10+ years working my ass off, and I didn't want to put my girlfriend (fiance soon) and future kids through that. Call me a lazy millenial if you wish, but I simply do not view it that way. My girlfriend is finishing up her bachelors and is in the process of deciding whether or not to go for a masters. She will be working some kind of 9-5 job Monday through Friday. My weird managerial schedule just would not jive with hers. So I made the decision to go back to school and continue working part-time at my retail job.

 

I wish I had decided to go back to school earlier; I am 28 years old now. It is what it is, though. The retail job for store employees is actually fantastic. In 5 years I went from $10.50/hour to $17.35/hour. They offer retirement packages so I opted into one awhile ago and have been building it up. These benefits kept me chugging along as a store employee without giving a thought to schooling. Boredom has started to creep in, though, as well as a revitalized urge to continue bettering myself. With some of my savings, I am able to finance my schooling at community college for the time being. Subsidized loans and the American Opportunity Tax Credit help immensly. I also hope to qualify for a Pell Grant next year. I still live at my dads, and I wanted it to be clear and okay with him that while I am going back to school, I will be working less (which should help me qualify for a Pell Grant). We arranged a new rent agreement, and he supports me in my quest for an education. It is certain that after I get my bachelors or maybe even my associates that I will be moving out and getting a place with my girlfriend, and finally stop bothering my father by living with him for so long. :D

 

 

Greg, I heard that statistic that you mentioned as well on a newsflash from WDCB 90.9. Despite who or what you may listen to, the statistic is real. I think that a lot of parents are recognizing that the economic landscape of today is not as good as when they were our age, so they give their young adults more leash. Both of my parents never completed college and they were able to buy a house and other nice things. This is just not possible today. In my composition class, I wrote a paper about how I believe many Americans are overworked and in my paper I discuss how the cost of living has risen, productivity has risen and at the same time wages have remained relatively stagnant. At the same time, the rich keep getting richer and wealth inequality continues to worsen, which is another contributing factor. There's a lot of good information here if you care to look: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ If anyone is interested in reading my paper, I'm rather proud of it and would love to share it with you. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail you a copy.

 

I can't speak for all millenials, just myself, but I am not going to perpetuate society down that path. I place real value on my free time and I will fight for a society that accepts free time as part of our culture. I surmise that a lot of what is perceived to be "lazy millenials", like those who expect inflated vacation time simply have a different way of viewing life in general, perhaps similar to mine. For sure, as things are now, employers now who are old school are going to hire those who don't want vacation time or inflated free time. That's just how it is right now. If I am correct, and many millenials view things as I do, then eventually society will shift as the millenials become the dominant generation. I think this is a really good thing as I believe that America is trending towards being overworked. Somethings going to have to give, and if it is a generation that all the super hard workers view as lazy, entitled brats that shifts America from overworking themselves to something better for future generations, then I think that is great. I don't want my children to grow up in a country where it is expected to basically live to work. I want them to be able to work hard, get what they deserve for it, and also have enough time for their families and to grow themselves individually.

I am at work at lunch and would love to respond to this later after I read your paper. Please send when you're able to. Great post!

 

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QUOTE (South Sider @ May 27, 2016 -> 10:37 AM)
I am one of those kids who are still stuck at home. I suppose that first I'll explain how my individual situation went down, and then explain why I believe this is occurring and what my final thoughts are on the subject from my millenial point-of-view.

 

My parents split up while I was in middle school. After high school, I could live with my mom rent-free if I went to college. If not, I had to pay some kind of rent. I was pretty much an idiot at those times, and didn't care a lick for school so I dropped out of community college. My father was going through some rough times. I won't go into details but I was able to live there rent-free until I was 20, which I'm sure my mom wasn't very pleased with.

Luckily for me I didn't blow off all of high school; only most of it. I had two internships and had classes that built computer repair and networking skills. The second internship turned into a full time job for a little bit after high school until the owner sold the company. I was able to keep my job for awhile, but the writing was on the wall. Around the age of 19, I was laid off.

 

Without a job to speak of, I was pretty much lost into my 20th year. My buddy who was also laid off ended up moving back with his folks a few states away and landed a similar job. He told me they had room for another technician, and I was ready for a change of scenery so I got out on my own! Things were good. Business was booming and after a short adjustment phase at my buddies folks house, we rented a house with our boss and his new wife. This lasted for about a year until things deteriorated rapidly and we had to move back into my buddies parents house. I lived there longer than I had liked, but the job was going south as well and income was becoming tighter and tighter. The hope was to get an apartment, but when I realized the job wasn't going anywhere, I decided to move back to Illinois.

 

Shortly after moving back I landed a retail job with a lot of promise. I started getting full time hours and consistent pay checks so I worked out a rent agreement with my father. This is the point where I could have moved out. I could have paid a bunch more in rent and lived paycheck to paycheck. I could have moved into a big rented party animal house down the street and hated every sober moment of it. But my father had an unused room. I buy my own food. I contribute to household chores and tasks. Finally, I suspect my father would be lonely without me around. The big plus is that I was able to save some money. About a year ago, I started gunning for a managerial position at my job. It would change everything. I would be making considerably more money, and definitely be able to afford an apartment without having to resort to incredible frugality. I'll be honest. I don't indulge myself a lot with material items, but I also want to be able to enjoy some of the money that I slave for. Trips to places like Cedar Point with my girlfriend and visits to my mother (who now lives in Arizona). Nice dinner dates every now and then, Sox games, craft beer, steaks etc.

 

However, I had a realization about the managerial position that completely changed my plan. The first is that the managers in a store work hours that are incredibly demanding physically and mentally. If you've heard of a waterfall schedule, it's kind of like that. An example would be:

 

Tuesday 1PM-11PM

Wednesday Noon-10PM

Thursday 8AM-6PM

Friday 6AM-4PM

Saturday 5AM-3PM

Sunday Monday Off

 

There are some areas of this schedule that are less than ideal for families, and I am a firm believer that your family is the #1 thing in your life, not work. I don't want my relationship with my girlfriend or my future kids to suffer because I work such a demanding schedule. The second realization was that to become a store manager (the head honcho of the store, who makes much more money and can work whatever schedule they like so long as it is 50 hours per week) was close to an insurmountable task for most managers. The first problem is that almost every manager wants to be a store manager. Competition is all well and good here, but the second problem is that there are simply not enough locations in this company. They only open a couple of locations a year, and it's not like current store managers are in a hurry to retire. I've seen firsthand many amazing regular managers toiling away for 10+ years hoping that their name would be called soon for store manager. However, only one location opened in this region alone last year with none that I know of set to open this year.

 

I realized I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to toil away for 10+ years working my ass off, and I didn't want to put my girlfriend (fiance soon) and future kids through that. Call me a lazy millenial if you wish, but I simply do not view it that way. My girlfriend is finishing up her bachelors and is in the process of deciding whether or not to go for a masters. She will be working some kind of 9-5 job Monday through Friday. My weird managerial schedule just would not jive with hers. So I made the decision to go back to school and continue working part-time at my retail job.

 

I wish I had decided to go back to school earlier; I am 28 years old now. It is what it is, though. The retail job for store employees is actually fantastic. In 5 years I went from $10.50/hour to $17.35/hour. They offer retirement packages so I opted into one awhile ago and have been building it up. These benefits kept me chugging along as a store employee without giving a thought to schooling. Boredom has started to creep in, though, as well as a revitalized urge to continue bettering myself. With some of my savings, I am able to finance my schooling at community college for the time being. Subsidized loans and the American Opportunity Tax Credit help immensly. I also hope to qualify for a Pell Grant next year. I still live at my dads, and I wanted it to be clear and okay with him that while I am going back to school, I will be working less (which should help me qualify for a Pell Grant). We arranged a new rent agreement, and he supports me in my quest for an education. It is certain that after I get my bachelors or maybe even my associates that I will be moving out and getting a place with my girlfriend, and finally stop bothering my father by living with him for so long. :D

 

 

Greg, I heard that statistic that you mentioned as well on a newsflash from WDCB 90.9. Despite who or what you may listen to, the statistic is real. I think that a lot of parents are recognizing that the economic landscape of today is not as good as when they were our age, so they give their young adults more leash. Both of my parents never completed college and they were able to buy a house and other nice things. This is just not possible today. In my composition class, I wrote a paper about how I believe many Americans are overworked and in my paper I discuss how the cost of living has risen, productivity has risen and at the same time wages have remained relatively stagnant. At the same time, the rich keep getting richer and wealth inequality continues to worsen, which is another contributing factor. There's a lot of good information here if you care to look: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ If anyone is interested in reading my paper, I'm rather proud of it and would love to share it with you. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail you a copy.

 

I can't speak for all millenials, just myself, but I am not going to perpetuate society down that path. I place real value on my free time and I will fight for a society that accepts free time as part of our culture. I surmise that a lot of what is perceived to be "lazy millenials", like those who expect inflated vacation time simply have a different way of viewing life in general, perhaps similar to mine. For sure, as things are now, employers now who are old school are going to hire those who don't want vacation time or inflated free time. That's just how it is right now. If I am correct, and many millenials view things as I do, then eventually society will shift as the millenials become the dominant generation. I think this is a really good thing as I believe that America is trending towards being overworked. Somethings going to have to give, and if it is a generation that all the super hard workers view as lazy, entitled brats that shifts America from overworking themselves to something better for future generations, then I think that is great. I don't want my children to grow up in a country where it is expected to basically live to work. I want them to be able to work hard, get what they deserve for it, and also have enough time for their families and to grow themselves individually.

 

 

Michael Moore would agree with you on this.

 

His most recent documentary touches on all of these exact same points, looking at the policies of different countries on things like vacation time, maternity leave, overtime, etc.

 

WHERE TO INVADE NEXT?

 

Two of the countries that have much better policies in this regard are Italy and Germany. It's the same argument going on in Europe now between southern and northern Europeans (particularly the Germans, as the strongest economy). As soon as you think the Germans are all working themselves to death, you realize their system is also much more progressive. Heck, I think the US is one of two countries in the world without mandatory (extended) maternity leave, which is incredible when you think about.

 

My wife here in China had five months, closer to 5 1/2 actually, of PAID maternity leave. She ended up taking off about 1 1/2 to 2 months before the baby (I forced her to when she was having some bleeding due to stress/overtime on weekends) and then went back after staying home 3+ months after the baby was born. She also must have left work and not come back at least 6-7 other days to go for hospital check-ups. Note, in China they even provide an EXTRA month of paid vacation if you're over 25 as a mother. (Now, one significant difference is the amount of base pay there is probably 1/3rd what it is in the US, even 1/4th...but that's another issue for another time.)

 

 

 

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QUOTE (Tex @ May 27, 2016 -> 10:52 AM)
One year my travelling team finished as co-champs because our league all-star team had advanced to a national tournament. Strike one for that trophy. At our banquet a prominent Cubs player Don Kessinger automatically autographed all the trophies, temporarily strike 2.

 

I still have it.

 

 

But he was also a former Sox player/manager...that has to undo the strike. I think the only one, unless you go back to the beginning of the franchise, perhaps.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2016 -> 03:29 PM)
Michael Moore would agree with you on this.

 

His most recent documentary touches on all of these exact same points, looking at the policies of different countries on things like vacation time, maternity leave, overtime, etc.

 

WHERE TO INVADE NEXT?

 

Two of the countries that have much better policies in this regard are Italy and Germany. It's the same argument going on in Europe now between southern and northern Europeans (particularly the Germans, as the strongest economy). As soon as you think the Germans are all working themselves to death, you realize their system is also much more progressive. Heck, I think the US is one of two countries in the world without mandatory (extended) maternity leave, which is incredible when you think about.

 

My wife here in China had five months, closer to 5 1/2 actually, of PAID maternity leave. She ended up taking off about 1 1/2 to 2 months before the baby (I forced her to when she was having some bleeding due to stress/overtime on weekends) and then went back after staying home 3+ months after the baby was born. She also must have left work and not come back at least 6-7 other days to go for hospital check-ups. Note, in China they even provide an EXTRA month of paid vacation if you're over 25 as a mother. (Now, one significant difference is the amount of base pay there is probably 1/3rd what it is in the US, even 1/4th...but that's another issue for another time.)

For various reasons, Japan is one of those countries where they work themselves to death. Ridiculous hours, the pay sucks. Their economy has been stuck in 2nd gear for about 20 years now.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2016 -> 02:33 PM)
But he was also a former Sox player/manager...that has to undo the strike. I think the only one, unless you go back to the beginning of the franchise, perhaps.

 

which is why I said temporarily . . . I know he was the also player - manager in the AL.

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QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ May 27, 2016 -> 02:36 PM)
For various reasons, Japan is one of those countries where they work themselves to death. Ridiculous hours, the pay sucks. Their economy has been stuck in 2nd gear for about 20 years now.

 

They finally are back in population growth and have the monetary policy to make a come back.

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QUOTE (South Sider @ May 27, 2016 -> 04:37 PM)
I am one of those kids who are still stuck at home. I suppose that first I'll explain how my individual situation went down, and then explain why I believe this is occurring and what my final thoughts are on the subject from my millenial point-of-view.

 

My parents split up while I was in middle school. After high school, I could live with my mom rent-free if I went to college. If not, I had to pay some kind of rent. I was pretty much an idiot at those times, and didn't care a lick for school so I dropped out of community college. My father was going through some rough times. I won't go into details but I was able to live there rent-free until I was 20, which I'm sure my mom wasn't very pleased with.

Luckily for me I didn't blow off all of high school; only most of it. I had two internships and had classes that built computer repair and networking skills. The second internship turned into a full time job for a little bit after high school until the owner sold the company. I was able to keep my job for awhile, but the writing was on the wall. Around the age of 19, I was laid off.

 

Without a job to speak of, I was pretty much lost into my 20th year. My buddy who was also laid off ended up moving back with his folks a few states away and landed a similar job. He told me they had room for another technician, and I was ready for a change of scenery so I got out on my own! Things were good. Business was booming and after a short adjustment phase at my buddies folks house, we rented a house with our boss and his new wife. This lasted for about a year until things deteriorated rapidly and we had to move back into my buddies parents house. I lived there longer than I had liked, but the job was going south as well and income was becoming tighter and tighter. The hope was to get an apartment, but when I realized the job wasn't going anywhere, I decided to move back to Illinois.

 

Shortly after moving back I landed a retail job with a lot of promise. I started getting full time hours and consistent pay checks so I worked out a rent agreement with my father. This is the point where I could have moved out. I could have paid a bunch more in rent and lived paycheck to paycheck. I could have moved into a big rented party animal house down the street and hated every sober moment of it. But my father had an unused room. I buy my own food. I contribute to household chores and tasks. Finally, I suspect my father would be lonely without me around. The big plus is that I was able to save some money. About a year ago, I started gunning for a managerial position at my job. It would change everything. I would be making considerably more money, and definitely be able to afford an apartment without having to resort to incredible frugality. I'll be honest. I don't indulge myself a lot with material items, but I also want to be able to enjoy some of the money that I slave for. Trips to places like Cedar Point with my girlfriend and visits to my mother (who now lives in Arizona). Nice dinner dates every now and then, Sox games, craft beer, steaks etc.

 

However, I had a realization about the managerial position that completely changed my plan. The first is that the managers in a store work hours that are incredibly demanding physically and mentally. If you've heard of a waterfall schedule, it's kind of like that. An example would be:

 

Tuesday 1PM-11PM

Wednesday Noon-10PM

Thursday 8AM-6PM

Friday 6AM-4PM

Saturday 5AM-3PM

Sunday Monday Off

 

There are some areas of this schedule that are less than ideal for families, and I am a firm believer that your family is the #1 thing in your life, not work. I don't want my relationship with my girlfriend or my future kids to suffer because I work such a demanding schedule. The second realization was that to become a store manager (the head honcho of the store, who makes much more money and can work whatever schedule they like so long as it is 50 hours per week) was close to an insurmountable task for most managers. The first problem is that almost every manager wants to be a store manager. Competition is all well and good here, but the second problem is that there are simply not enough locations in this company. They only open a couple of locations a year, and it's not like current store managers are in a hurry to retire. I've seen firsthand many amazing regular managers toiling away for 10+ years hoping that their name would be called soon for store manager. However, only one location opened in this region alone last year with none that I know of set to open this year.

 

I realized I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to toil away for 10+ years working my ass off, and I didn't want to put my girlfriend (fiance soon) and future kids through that. Call me a lazy millenial if you wish, but I simply do not view it that way. My girlfriend is finishing up her bachelors and is in the process of deciding whether or not to go for a masters. She will be working some kind of 9-5 job Monday through Friday. My weird managerial schedule just would not jive with hers. So I made the decision to go back to school and continue working part-time at my retail job.

 

I wish I had decided to go back to school earlier; I am 28 years old now. It is what it is, though. The retail job for store employees is actually fantastic. In 5 years I went from $10.50/hour to $17.35/hour. They offer retirement packages so I opted into one awhile ago and have been building it up. These benefits kept me chugging along as a store employee without giving a thought to schooling. Boredom has started to creep in, though, as well as a revitalized urge to continue bettering myself. With some of my savings, I am able to finance my schooling at community college for the time being. Subsidized loans and the American Opportunity Tax Credit help immensly. I also hope to qualify for a Pell Grant next year. I still live at my dads, and I wanted it to be clear and okay with him that while I am going back to school, I will be working less (which should help me qualify for a Pell Grant). We arranged a new rent agreement, and he supports me in my quest for an education. It is certain that after I get my bachelors or maybe even my associates that I will be moving out and getting a place with my girlfriend, and finally stop bothering my father by living with him for so long. :D

 

 

Greg, I heard that statistic that you mentioned as well on a newsflash from WDCB 90.9. Despite who or what you may listen to, the statistic is real. I think that a lot of parents are recognizing that the economic landscape of today is not as good as when they were our age, so they give their young adults more leash. Both of my parents never completed college and they were able to buy a house and other nice things. This is just not possible today. In my composition class, I wrote a paper about how I believe many Americans are overworked and in my paper I discuss how the cost of living has risen, productivity has risen and at the same time wages have remained relatively stagnant. At the same time, the rich keep getting richer and wealth inequality continues to worsen, which is another contributing factor. There's a lot of good information here if you care to look: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ If anyone is interested in reading my paper, I'm rather proud of it and would love to share it with you. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail you a copy.

 

I can't speak for all millenials, just myself, but I am not going to perpetuate society down that path. I place real value on my free time and I will fight for a society that accepts free time as part of our culture. I surmise that a lot of what is perceived to be "lazy millenials", like those who expect inflated vacation time simply have a different way of viewing life in general, perhaps similar to mine. For sure, as things are now, employers now who are old school are going to hire those who don't want vacation time or inflated free time. That's just how it is right now. If I am correct, and many millenials view things as I do, then eventually society will shift as the millenials become the dominant generation. I think this is a really good thing as I believe that America is trending towards being overworked. Somethings going to have to give, and if it is a generation that all the super hard workers view as lazy, entitled brats that shifts America from overworking themselves to something better for future generations, then I think that is great. I don't want my children to grow up in a country where it is expected to basically live to work. I want them to be able to work hard, get what they deserve for it, and also have enough time for their families and to grow themselves individually.

 

I appreciate this post and your heartfelt commentary.

I do have a question. You are right about Millenials wanting to balance work life and home life and they don't want to work 60-70-80 hours a week like we do. My question is ... how do you handle this now? It's going to be a while before Millenials are in charge of all the companies and can make sure their employees have a lot of free time/vacation time. How do you survive in the interim. I hear law offices are making the Millenials work just as much as the older folks are used to. Are Millenials quitting their jobs once they realize the jobs control their lives completely?

This mixing and matching of generations would appear to hurt the Millenials because they will quit or be fired when the old codgers put amzing demands on their time.

 

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QUOTE (greg775 @ May 27, 2016 -> 03:21 PM)
I appreciate this post and your heartfelt commentary.

I do have a question. You are right about Millenials wanting to balance work life and home life and they don't want to work 60-70-80 hours a week like we do. My question is ... how do you handle this now? It's going to be a while before Millenials are in charge of all the companies and can make sure their employees have a lot of free time/vacation time. How do you survive in the interim. I hear law offices are making the Millenials work just as much as the older folks are used to. Are Millenials quitting their jobs once they realize the jobs control their lives completely?

This mixing and matching of generations would appear to hurt the Millenials because they will quit or be fired when the old codgers put amzing demands on their time.

 

I worked 30 hours a week on top of 10 hours of grad school. Many people do tbat.

 

And you're over estimating how many people work this mythical 70-80 hour work week happily. For starters, no employer is paying that much overtime

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 27, 2016 -> 04:23 PM)
I worked 30 hours a week on top of 10 hours of grad school. Many people do tbat.

 

And you're over estimating how many people work this mythical 70-80 hour work week happily. For starters, no employer is paying that much overtime

Well that's false.

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