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White Sox Acquire James Shields

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They'll make more trades. Saladino is probably up next. He looks like a good young player, but that's not good enough reason for Hahn to keep him. They've penciled in Anderson (who could very well turn out like the last Anderson Williams prematurely penciled in). Then any prospect not named Fulmer or Anderson is fair game.

And even if it doesn't work out, Ventura and Cooper won't have many immature young players to deal with, so they'll be comfy in Robin's holiday camp.

Edited by GreenSox

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Elgin, and this is where you're specifically right here.

 

Hahn's not a talent evaluation and development guy. Not his forte.

 

It's the only reason Preller has a job still in SD, that's his major strength, minor leagues....talent evaluation and development. That has to be the foundation of a team like the White Sox with a middle 40-60% payroll but definitely not one who will be able to spend more than "average" until a new broadcast rights deal in 2019. Look at what he did in Texas while there: Odor, Profar, Leonys Martin, Odubal Herrera (now with Philly), Mazara (ROY), Chi Chi Rodriguez and a slew of other minor leaguers that gave them the depth to trade for Hamels.

 

http://padrespublic.com/sacrifice-bunt/aj-...tten-strengths/

AJ Preller's Forgotten Strengths

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 07:32 PM)
Elgin, and this is where you're specifically right here.

 

Hahn's not a talent evaluation and development guy. Not his forte.

 

It's the only reason Preller has a job still in SD, that's his major strength, minor leagues....talent evaluation and development. That has to be the foundation of a team like the White Sox with a middle 40-60% payroll but definitely not one who will be able to spend more than "average" until a new broadcast rights deal in 2019. Look at what he did in Texas while there: Odor, Profar, Leonys Martin, Odubal Herrera (now with Philly), Mazara (ROY), Chi Chi Rodriguez and a slew of other minor leaguers that gave them the depth to trade for Hamels.

 

http://padrespublic.com/sacrifice-bunt/aj-...tten-strengths/

AJ Preller's Forgotten Strengths

Completely agree, on the fact that the farm system has to be the foundation. They have to pour more money into scouting and player development, instead of saving it for the splashy move at the deadline. Go into the season with a sound team, and add to it when a) it makes sense to, and b) with a player that it makes sense to add. I have argued with buddies of mine that they should be going more for guys like Pineda and Bauer, talented guys who are cost controlled, have ace quality stuff and need a change of scenery, rather than high priced aging talent. Also, when you're not trying to win, try to identify free agents who have had down years and flip them on a bounce back year for either a failed guy with lots of talent that needs a change of scenery or talented guys at the lower levels of the minors.

Edited by Elgin Slim

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:29 PM)
The Sox are just getting out from under the anchor of Danks' bad deal and now this.

 

Even with S.D. paying a lot the Sox still now owe 27 million from what I read.

 

For a mid 30's pitcher probably on the downward track. That's the way to build a "consistent" winner in my book! (sarcasm implied)

 

Kenny strikes again.

 

Mark

Absolutely amazing....

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QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:51 PM)
Completely agree, on the fact that the farm system has to be the foundation. They have to pour more money into scouting and player development, instead of saving it for the splashy move at the deadline. Go into the season with a sound team, and add to it when a) it makes sense to, and b) with a player that it makes sense to add. I have argued with buddies of mine that they should be going more for guys like Pineda and Bauer, talented guys who are cost controlled, have ace quality stuff and need a change of scenery, rather than high priced aging talent. Also, when you're not trying to win, try to identify free agents who have had down years and flip them on a bounce back year for either a failed guy with lots of talent that needs a change of scenery or talented guys at the lower levels of the minors.

 

See Contreras, Freddy Garcia (although the price at the time seemed extremely high), Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Santos, Thornton and Marte, etc.

 

For hitters, the 2004-2005 offseason still reigns as the best example, as a lot of those guys like AJ and Dye were still relatively close to their primes.

 

Then that 2007-2008 cycle adding Beckham, Viciedo, Alexei, Floyd, Danks and Carlos Quentin.

 

Everything else has been hit and miss. Steps forward and backwards. Rios and Peavy are perfect examples. The majority of their free agent acquisitions have killed them, especially LaRoche, Swisher and Dunn (in 2011). Javy looked great on paper but just wasn't a winning pitcher...sometimes that talent just doesn't translate to wins or good chemistry.

 

More than anything, when you're constantly blending in players from other organizations...you never have cohesiveness and continuity, always searching and experimenting to try to find that magical winning combination but never quite having the resources to get the job done effectively due to the lack of revenue generation caused by the fans' well-earned distrust for and with the organization.

 

 

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Hahn told Levine this isn't their last trade and they have the money for more additions. Hopefully a good bat is available soon, and Melky comes back, Abreu gets on track, and the team should be back to winning some games.

 

Personally, I think one of the big problems is they are letting good pitches to hit go by without swinging. Yes meatheads will be angry with you if you hit the ball hard but out on pitch one, but that is often a pretty good pitch to hit. It is where Sale got burned today.

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hahn's consistently talked about this team's window of contention. with that timetable in mind, the deal makes sense whether or not they contend this year.

 

 

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Hahn mentioned in Dan Hayes' column the potential to receive a comp pick if Shields opts-out. Does he know something about the new CBA that we don't? I don't think they are eligible for a comp pick because he wasn't on the team for a full season.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 09:15 PM)
Hahn mentioned in Dan Hayes' column the potential to receive a comp pick if Shields opts-out. Does he know something about the new CBA that we don't? I don't think they are eligible for a comp pick because he wasn't on the team for a full season.

Let's hope there's a upcoming CBA change we don't know about, otherwise, that's incredibly worrisome he doesn't know the current rules.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 09:15 PM)
Hahn mentioned in Dan Hayes' column the potential to receive a comp pick if Shields opts-out. Does he know something about the new CBA that we don't? I don't think they are eligible for a comp pick because he wasn't on the team for a full season.

 

 

No understanding this.. Do you have a link to the rule?

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:27 PM)
At which point Bruce will devolve into the player we've seen the last 2-3 seasons in CINCY but the White Sox will be short Spencer Adams.

 

But that's great because we have a stupid compensation pick instead of Desmond or Fowler. That's really helpful about right now, as we're going to have to give up more than the equivalent of that pick just to get rid of all those AB's for Garcia, Sands, Shuck and Rollins.

I was one of the biggest advocates here for getting Fowler or Desmond in addition to Jackson when Cespedes fell through. I know you're pissed off right now but you really have no facts to back up your speculations.

 

Bruce could mash his way to 45 HR here.

That comp pick could turn out to be an all star in 2019.

 

I'm not happy about the team right now too but I see no use in getting ruffled panties.

 

On a good note, I did brush my teeth this morning. Yay, me.

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Getting Shields w/o giving up a player from your ML roster is a plus. If the Sox can get this turned around, Shields may solve the 4th starter spot which is critical especially since they have struggled through Round 1 of playing Central Division teams. He was an ace not that long ago so maybe he can be a solid 4th starter for at least this year.

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I am not convinced that Shields is the best thing for us, but we gave up a lot of nothing to get him. We all saw the Sox have zero confidence in Johnson. They had chance after chance to use him, he always stunk here, and they had no confidence in bringing him back.

 

Tatis could be something, but he is 17 years old, and at best half a decade away from doing anything at the major league level. In return we got a pitcher who will give us at very least a solid 200 IP a year. With the way that the pen has been abused this year, that will help, even if Shields isn't Big Game James anymore.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:52 PM)
I was one of the biggest advocates here for getting Fowler or Desmond in addition to Jackson when Cespedes fell through. I know you're pissed off right now but you really have no facts to back up your speculations.

 

Bruce could mash his way to 45 HR here.

That comp pick could turn out to be an all star in 2019.

 

I'm not happy about the team right now too but I see no use in getting ruffled panties.

 

On a good note, I did brush my teeth this morning. Yay, me.

 

 

True enough, but you always have to think in terms of probability or likelihood.

 

We could get Jared Mitchell or Mike Trout with that draft pick...but more than likely that player contributes 3 war or less during a potential MLB career.

 

As far as Bruce hitting 45 homers, it would be nice to see...since they're almost now forced to double-down (once again) and at that bat because what's the point in adding Shields if it's just for a single run in 2017? The problem is they're whittling the farm system down to merely kindling, but Hahn's pretty much putting his job on the line now. 2015, he could survive that miscalculation, but more missteps and, since they continue to back Ventura, who do you think's going to take the blame next?

 

Self-preservation says Hahn/KW will have to fire Ventura and try that FIRST before the pitchforks and torches get too exuberant for blood higher up in the hierarchy.

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:16 PM)
True enough, but you always have to think in terms of probability or likelihood.

 

We could get Jared Mitchell or Mike Trout with that draft pick...but more than likely that player contributes 3 war or less during a potential MLB career.

 

As far as Bruce hitting 45 homers, it would be nice to see...since they're almost now forced to double-down (once again) and at that bat because what's the point in adding Shields if it's just for a single run in 2017? The problem is they're whittling the farm system down to merely kindling, but Hahn's pretty much putting his job on the line now. 2015, he could survive that miscalculation, but more missteps and, since they continue to back Ventura, who do you think's going to take the blame next?

 

Self-preservation says Hahn/KW will have to fire Ventura and try that FIRST before the pitchforks and torches get too exuberant for blood higher up in the hierarchy.

I want my mommie.

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Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 4m4 minutes ago

James Shields gets $5 mil in 2016 from #WhiteSox, $10 mil in 2017 & 2018. They're also on hook for $2 mil buyout on 2019 club option.

7 retweets 3 likes

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:31 PM)
Hahn told Levine this isn't their last trade and they have the money for more additions. Hopefully a good bat is available soon, and Melky comes back, Abreu gets on track, and the team should be back to winning some games.

 

Personally, I think one of the big problems is they are letting good pitches to hit go by without swinging. Yes meatheads will be angry with you if you hit the ball hard but out on pitch one, but that is often a pretty good pitch to hit. It is where Sale got burned today.

Just wanted to say Thanks. I don't post often but amidst all of the gloom and doom thats written on the board, you seem to find ways to put some HOPEFUL and positive spins on things at times. Granted i am just as frustrated with everything as everyone else is, but this is baseball. I love the sport. I hate when winter comes and we have to wait soooo long for the season to start. I am TRYING to have some hope in this team, but man some of the negativity really gets depressing at times. Is everyone frustrated? Absolutely and SHOULD be. But overall I still believe we have a good team. I know its a long shot, but if Abreu ever gets his head out of his rear end, we have a lineup of one through 7 that's really not all that bad. He has hurt us a lot of games this year in real possible turning points in games. I remember a while back he Paulie went in a half year slump. He made NO excuses. He knew how he hurt the team, And fans were calling for his head. Just worked hard at getting out of it...and becamse a start and a hero again.. Can only hope the same for Abreu. I'd rather have the team go through this now and get all this $h&^&&t out of the way now than have it come in September. On the other side.......we have a REAL good defensive club as well. hopefully Rodon will get where he is supposed to be as well. A lot of IF's and Hopes? Sure. But if the 83 Sox can start off as horrible as they did and not lose a series the entire second half, then why couldn;t this team if everyone just does what they are supposed to do? Any, enough said. Just wanted to say thanks for some of your positives posts that you put out now and then. There is still a LOT of baseball yet. and if Frazier hasn't done what he did in many key situations,... we might be where Minny is at. But we are not. And also.....the front office (agree or disagree with any future moves) is at least TRYING to to something by TRYING to get a guy that eats innings to salvage a bullpen so its not totally trashed by August, along with still having money for more additions. Granted. its all long shots. But we still do have a VERY Good chance with some REAL hope with the pieces that we have. Tom

 

 

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QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:30 PM)
Just wanted to say Thanks. I don't post often but amidst all of the gloom and doom thats written on the board, you seem to find ways to put some HOPEFUL and positive spins on things at times. Granted i am just as frustrated with everything as everyone else is, but this is baseball. I love the sport. I hate when winter comes and we have to wait soooo long for the season to start. I am TRYING to have some hope in this team, but man some of the negativity really gets depressing at times. Is everyone frustrated? Absolutely and SHOULD be. But overall I still believe we have a good team. I know its a long shot, but if Abreu ever gets his head out of his rear end, we have a lineup of one through 7 that's really not all that bad. He has hurt us a lot of games this year in real possible turning points in games. I remember a while back he Paulie went in a half year slump. He made NO excuses. He knew how he hurt the team, And fans were calling for his head. Just worked hard at getting out of it...and becamse a start and a hero again.. Can only hope the same for Abreu. I'd rather have the team go through this now and get all this $h&^&&t out of the way now than have it come in September. On the other side.......we have a REAL good defensive club as well. hopefully Rodon will get where he is supposed to be as well. A lot of IF's and Hopes? Sure. But if the 83 Sox can start off as horrible as they did and not lose a series the entire second half, then why couldn;t this team if everyone just does what they are supposed to do? Any, enough said. Just wanted to say thanks for some of your positives posts that you put out now and then. There is still a LOT of baseball yet. and if Frazier hasn't done what he did in many key situations,... we might be where Minny is at. But we are not. And also.....the front office (agree or disagree with any future moves) is at least TRYING to to something by TRYING to get a guy that eats innings to salvage a bullpen so its not totally trashed by August, along with still having money for more additions. Granted. its all long shots. But we still do have a VERY Good chance with some REAL hope with the pieces that we have. Tom

Daddy..... Is that you?

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QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:52 PM)
daddy?? huh?? did i miss something?

Hey man, don't ruin the family reunion. I've been an orphaned boy looking for his parents for too long - and for you to inexplicibly destroy such a happening - well... Man, that really sucks dude.

 

So much for sensitivity and understanding.

 

Jeez.

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