Dunt Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) What could we realistically get for Sale, Q, Robertson, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie? The best farm system in baseball by a large margin. We shouldn't do that though as others here have already said. Nothing is wrong with the organization and failure is totally cool on the south side. We are super lucky to even be allowed to watch this team. Now get out to the stadium you terrible fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) The best farm system in baseball by a large margin. We shouldn't do that though as others here have already said. Nothing is wrong with the organization and failure is totally cool on the south side. We are super lucky to even be allowed to watch this team. Now get out to the stadium you terrible fans. Lol no kidding. God forbid anyone has anything negative to say about this team. I feel the most for our core players because Hahn can't build a team around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 In my opinion, they either have to spend money and get some players or blow it up. I'll always love the White Sox and will cheer them on, but I am sick of this half measure s*** like Latos, Jackson, and Rollins when Desmond, Cespedes, Upton, Gordon were all available this off season. If you're going all in, f***ing pay up JR. /rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) In my opinion, they either have to spend money and get some players or blow it up. I'll always love the White Sox and will cheer them on, but I am sick of this half measure s*** like Latos, Jackson, and Rollins when Desmond, Cespedes, Upton, Gordon were all available this off season. If you're going all in, f***ing pay up JR. /rant Agreed. I'm over this half measure stuff. Should've gotten Cespedes. Time to pay up or sell everyone and the team f*** it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 We need another 3-4 elite players (4+ WAR) but we have a maxed out budget and keep expecting to make it up by signing / trading for 6 1.5 WAR players and it's not working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Trading Sale would be a franchise changing move. The Dodgers and Red Sox have stacked systems and could use the pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 QUOTE (lord chas @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) We need a total top to bottom enema. All these scholarship employees need to go too. Brooks Boyer, Gene Honda, Buddy Bell, and others all got to go What the hell did Gene Honda do wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) Trading Sale would be a franchise changing move. The Dodgers and Red Sox have stacked systems and could use the pitching. And Nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Problem is If you blow it up Kenny Williams is involved. KW needs to be one of the things going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 06:02 PM) Problem is If you blow it up Kenny Williams is involved. KW needs to be one of the things going. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Line Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Everything is fine! No need to overreact and hit the panic button, that's just baseball! I'm sure we're gonna turn it around next series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 06:24 PM) Trading Sale would be a franchise changing move. The Dodgers and Red Sox have stacked systems and could use the pitching. Wrong. At least not now. Sale is a top 5 pitcher in baseball. You do not trade him for minor league talent. You trade him for ML talent. Neither of those teams are likely to trade ML talent while they are contending this year. But if neither makes the playoffs, then you can get ML talent in the off-season. For example, if I am trading w Boston I want Betts or Bradley in a package. They are not going to trade them while they are contending right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) Wrong. At least not now. Sale is a top 5 pitcher in baseball. You do not trade him for minor league talent. You trade him for ML talent. Neither of those teams are likely to trade ML talent while they are contending this year. But if neither makes the playoffs, then you can get ML talent in the off-season. For example, if I am trading w Boston I want Betts or Bradley in a package. They are not going to trade them while they are contending right now. Exactly. I'm getting at least one young stud back in the package. Like if Boston wanted him I'd want Betts or Boegarts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I don't thing just blowing it up is the solution, either. Thie office needs a plan, a roadmap, some discipline and patience. Trade off the worthwhile pieces now if they want but do it to stock the minors and gain draft picks. Then, DO NOT make any trades or free agent signings to stock the major league roster until you have a minor league development system that is first rate and can feed the parent club. Whether it's a small ball team, one built on power, or whatever is is, choose the model and scout and develop towards that end. Only when that is in place and the system is competent can you start looking to supplement it via the market. The way it is now, the have a dysfunctional non-performing team and they just throw random pieces at it hoping they will fit into and complete the puzzle. That won't work even if they had the funds to grab the best talent available. Even if the pieces and colorful and shiny, the won't necessarily fit the puzzle, much less even look right next to the other pieces if they did. Choose a model, make the plan, and commit to it at every level and throughout the organization before you even think about going outside the organization to improve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) Ok, Q for one of those two and supplement either of the omitted for a 1B or CF in the draft or in FA. You've also got other trade chips on Jones and Robertson who could help bring in a good fit for one of those two spots. Honestly Q is super valuable but to land Moncada++ its going to take something like Sale + Jones. That should get you the majority of their upper level prospects and a "throw in" or two. I could see a package like this Trade Chris Sale & Jones to the Red Sox for C Blake Swihart, 2B Yoan Moncada, OF Andrew Benintendi, RHP Anderson Espinoza, LHP Kyle Martin & 3B Pablo Sandoval with Boston picking up 48.5 of his remaining 57 mil including his buy out. If the sox are going to have a fire sale there going to need someone to play 1B and maybe they can get Sandoval to re-establish some of his value, they'd be responsible for 8.5 over 2 years, with the option to exercise the club 17m option if he turns it around. He needs to roughly be worth 1WAR over the course of 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (beautox @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 10:19 PM) Honestly Q is super valuable but to land Moncada++ its going to take something like Sale + Jones. That should get you the majority of their upper level prospects and a "throw in" or two. I could see a package like this Trade Chris Sale & Jones to the Red Sox for C Blake Swihart, 2B Yoan Moncada, OF Andrew Benintendi, RHP Anderson Espinoza, LHP Kyle Martin & 3B Pablo Sandoval with Boston picking up 48.5 of his remaining 57 mil including his buy out. If the sox are going to have a fire sale there going to need someone to play 1B and maybe they can get Sandoval to re-establish some of his value, they'd be responsible for 8.5 over 2 years, with the option to exercise the club 17m option if he turns it around. He needs to roughly be worth 1WAR over the course of 2 seasons. If Sales being traded I want Giolito and Turner from Washington as a starting point. If we're talking Boston, I want their top three in Moncada, Devers, and Benintendi -- plus two more lower level SP prospects. Sales trade value and his contract should bring an unprecedented return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 My son and I are going to the Sox game this Saturday. There is no way I am paying $40.00 per ticket. I can go on stubhub and get $7.00 and move to where we want. That's how bad the Sox are. No one comes. Why should they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 01:17 AM) If Sales being traded I want Giolito and Turner from Washington as a starting point. If we're talking Boston, I want their top three in Moncada, Devers, and Benintendi -- plus two more lower level SP prospects. Sales trade value and his contract should bring an unprecedented return. I agree he is under control for the next three years and is the nearest thing to Kershaw and only going to make 38m from 17-19. His return should be unprecedented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I'd much rather trade Sale to the Dodgers and keep him out of the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I wonder if the Pirates could be convinced to bite on Sale. They have an excellent farm system and their pitching is struggling this year. They probably would not trade Taillon but a package with Glasnow + would be tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The thing about trading Sale and Q is you have to get it right. That's a lot of pressure for our struggling front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (beautox @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 01:19 AM) Honestly Q is super valuable but to land Moncada++ its going to take something like Sale + Jones. That should get you the majority of their upper level prospects and a "throw in" or two. I could see a package like this Trade Chris Sale & Jones to the Red Sox for C Blake Swihart, 2B Yoan Moncada, OF Andrew Benintendi, RHP Anderson Espinoza, LHP Kyle Martin & 3B Pablo Sandoval with Boston picking up 48.5 of his remaining 57 mil including his buy out. If the sox are going to have a fire sale there going to need someone to play 1B and maybe they can get Sandoval to re-establish some of his value, they'd be responsible for 8.5 over 2 years, with the option to exercise the club 17m option if he turns it around. He needs to roughly be worth 1WAR over the course of 2 seasons. DUMB. None of those are everyday ML players right now. So you would trtade sale who is a Top 5 player in baseball for 5 ML players some of whom may never even make it to the bigs. Foe example, Swihart was their highly rated catching prospect who didn't make their team this season and got sent down to learn the outfield. He is back up playing the outfield due to an injury and still struggling. Any trade to Boston should start w Betts or Bradley who are both everyday ML players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 06:39 AM) DUMB. None of those are everyday ML players right now. So you would trtade sale who is a Top 5 player in baseball for 5 ML players some of whom may never even make it to the bigs. Foe example, Swihart was their highly rated catching prospect who didn't make their team this season and got sent down to learn the outfield. He is back up playing the outfield due to an injury and still struggling. Any trade to Boston should start w Betts or Bradley who are both everyday ML players. This. They're balking at moving either of those guys but to get Sale ya need to give me one. The package for sale needs to be built around one young impact player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 06:39 AM) DUMB. None of those are everyday ML players right now. So you would trtade sale who is a Top 5 player in baseball for 5 ML players some of whom may never even make it to the bigs. Foe example, Swihart was their highly rated catching prospect who didn't make their team this season and got sent down to learn the outfield. He is back up playing the outfield due to an injury and still struggling. Any trade to Boston should start w Betts or Bradley who are both everyday ML players. Yes, that is how you maximize return on a proven asset. You take on risk. If they traded Sale for only MLB proven players, they would only get maybe 2 average players. That is ignoring the fact that buying teams don't trade established major leaguers for upgrades. They Sox don't need average. They need star-caliber talent. This is how rebuilding works. Also get out of here with that Betts/Bradley garbage, those guys are better than Sale right now and make less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The problem with this theory is that those other pitchers on the market like Sonny Gray/Rich Hill, Odorizzi, Teheran...the Red Sox can find organizations that are willing to take a package of minor leaguers instead of meeting the requirement of including ONE of Betts/Bradley/Bogaerts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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