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Time to Trade Chris Sale?

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I'm only trading Sale if the Red Sox are willing to overpay for him and give up one of their current young all-stars, not just a collection of prospects.

 

 

I'd do it for Betts, Moncada, Benintendi, and some lottery pitcher with upside. If they don't want to have to pay that much, then oh well. And honestly, they can get a lesser, but still great pitcher from some other team for less.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:23 PM)
Same. And I expect the same thing for Quintana.

 

 

1. The Red Sox are not trading Bogaerts. He is untouchable. Now Betts or Bradley could probably be had in a Sale trade and to a lesser degree for Q. Q has great stats but his consistent inability to win on a team where Sale does win makes him a step down from Sale. Q might be more likely for the minor league players in a trade. Sale has to bring one stud ML starter and prospects. Bradley has more value than Betts

2. Red Sox have decided Swihart is better off in the outfield than catching. I trust their opinion more than the White Sox scouts after the Shields debackle.

3. Must get a high ranked Boston pitching prospect back in a trade.

4. I think Dombrowski will make a big time trade but I don't think Hahn will. I also don't think Dombrowski includes an ML player( Betts Bradley) until after the season unless they suddenly start to fall out of race.

Edited by SCCWS

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:10 PM)
1. The Red Sox are not trading Bogaerts. He is untouchable. Now Betts or Bradley could probably be had in a Sale trade and to a lesser degree for Q. Q has great stats but his consistent inability to win on a team where Sale does win makes him a step down from Sale. Q might be more likely for the minor league players in a trade. Sale has to bring one stud ML starter and prospects. Bradley has more value than Betts

2. Red Sox have decided Swihart is better off in the outfield than catching. I trust their opinion more than the White Sox scouts after the Shields debackle.

3. Must get a high ranked Boston pitching prospect back in a trade.

 

A stat dependent on his offense isnt going to drag down his value. Everyone in the league knows how good he is, it isnt a secret. The White Sox arent gonna be like "well, he doesnt have a lot of wins soooooo maybe we should take less"

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QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 11:52 AM)
I'm only trading Sale if the Red Sox are willing to overpay for him and give up one of their current young all-stars, not just a collection of prospects.

 

 

I'd do it for Betts, Moncada, Benintendi, and some lottery pitcher with upside. If they don't want to have to pay that much, then oh well. And honestly, they can get a lesser, but still great pitcher from some other team for less.

 

Agreed. The Red Sox have to overpay for either Sale or Q but don't really have to. They can get someone who will be solid for them for less as you said.

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QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:10 PM)
1. The Red Sox are not trading Bogaerts. He is untouchable. Now Betts or Bradley could probably be had in a Sale trade and to a lesser degree for Q. Q has great stats but his consistent inability to win on a team where Sale does win makes him a step down from Sale. Q might be more likely for the minor league players in a trade. Sale has to bring one stud ML starter and prospects. Bradley has more value than Betts

2. Red Sox have decided Swihart is better off in the outfield than catching. I trust their opinion more than the White Sox scouts after the Shields debackle.

3. Must get a high ranked Boston pitching prospect back in a trade.

4. I think Dombrowski will make a big time trade but I don't think Hahn will. I also don't think Dombrowski includes an ML player( Betts Bradley) until after the season unless they suddenly start to fall out of race.

 

You do realize if the season ended today, Jose Quintana would be the AL Cy Young award winner?

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:21 PM)
You do realize if the season ended today, Jose Quintana would be the AL Cy Young award winner?

 

He wouldn't be close and prepare for an all star snub possibility too.

 

I love Q, but get real.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:23 PM)
He wouldn't be close and prepare for an all star snub possibility too.

 

I love Q, but get real.

 

Ok, if voting was fair.

 

He's been the best pitcher in the AL this year and it can't really be argued otherwise, unless we're going off wins alone.

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The Sox aren't going to trade Sale or any other of their elite players this season. They're too invested in winning now. Next July may be a different story.

 

I also think that when the Sox do trade one of their studs, it's Sale and not Q. Sale is under team control for one fewer year, has more dominant stuff, and will net the better package. IMO, the Sox will need Q for the rebuilding process.

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 10:35 AM)
I must say, I really don't understand the logic around here.

 

If you were going to trade Chris Sale, the time to do that was BEFORE you went and made 12 other moves in an attempt to compete with this core. The time was to build a new core once you realized you couldn't assemble a competitive enough team in time to coincide with Sale's peak years.

 

The time is not AFTER you've gone and tried to build around THIS core. We've since signed multiple free agents, made multiple trades, etc. You've come this far. Now you've got no choice but to keep trying. They need to keep adding to the core now, not selling it off.

 

It would happen because the front office decides that this strategy didn't work, and that the time has come for real change. I think there is about a zero chance of it happening, as the more meatball portion of the fanbase would absolutely meltdown, and the organziation knows that.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 10:34 AM)
No, It doesnt. Betts or Bradley is in this deal or have fun with Wright and Bucholz. Sales success and contract demands the best return

 

You are not getting core players from any team in contention. They are not going to create a hole to fill another one.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:33 PM)
It would happen because the front office decides that this strategy didn't work, and that the time has come for real change. I think there is about a zero chance of it happening, as the more meatball portion of the fanbase would absolutely meltdown, and the organziation knows that.

 

Of course, JR has done that before and the meatballs have returned as soon as the Sox have become competitive again. It's almost pointless to care what the meatballs think about a rebuild when they won't show up to watch a .500 team that's only three games behind in a weak division.

 

My guess is that JR pulls the plug sometime between July of 2017 and July of 2018 and that he puts the team up for sale afterwards.

 

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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:41 PM)
You are not getting core players from any team in contention. They are not going to create a hole to fill another one.

 

I feel if any team could, it would be the Cubs (Russell with Baez playing short). They also have other good middle infield prospects as well.

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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:41 PM)
You are not getting core players from any team in contention. They are not going to create a hole to fill another one.

 

Like I said, then have fun with Wright and Buchholz. You have to pay to play, there is zero reason for he White Sox to take anything less than an elite package for Sale

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:47 PM)
My guess is that JR pulls the plug sometime between July of 2017 and July of 2018 and that he puts the team up for sale afterwards.

 

The chances of JR selling the team before his passing is extremely slim.. the capital gains tax hit would be outrageous… not to say he doesn't have other assets to cover it, but he's a frikkin tax attorney…. more likely that his portion of the Sox lies in trust, waiting to be inherited by his heir, who will escape the estate tax as a trustee

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:21 PM)
You do realize if the season ended today, Jose Quintana would be the AL Cy Young award winner?

As in, the actual Cy Young award voted on by the people who have votes that count, or another Cy Young award winner? Because there would be no way he would win the actual Cy Young if the season ended now.

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QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 02:11 PM)
As in, the actual Cy Young award voted on by the people who have votes that count, or another Cy Young award winner? Because there would be no way he would win the actual Cy Young if the season ended now.

 

As in he has been the best pitcher in the AL this year.

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QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:11 PM)
As in, the actual Cy Young award voted on by the people who have votes that count, or another Cy Young award winner? Because there would be no way he would win the actual Cy Young if the season ended now.

 

Meh. He'd be close. Top 3 or 4 in voting for sure. The lack of wins doesn't help, but if he were 8-2 or something, he would definitely be the leader in the clubhouse.

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:47 PM)
Of course, JR has done that before and the meatballs have returned as soon as the Sox have become competitive again. It's almost pointless to care what the meatballs think about a rebuild when they won't show up to watch a .500 team that's only three games behind in a weak division.

 

My guess is that JR pulls the plug sometime between July of 2017 and July of 2018 and that he puts the team up for sale afterwards.

Can I get this in writing, please?

 

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:33 PM)
It would happen because the front office decides that this strategy didn't work, and that the time has come for real change. I think there is about a zero chance of it happening, as the more meatball portion of the fanbase would absolutely meltdown, and the organziation knows that.

Sounds like we'd have a meatball owner, meatball executive VP of baseball operations, and meatball GM if they were making critical decisions based on the reaction of a so-called "meatball portion of the fanbase".

Edited by Thad Bosley

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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:22 PM)
Can I get this in writing, please?

 

I wish that I could help you there. :lol:

 

I really think that this is his last push. JR will be 82 in 2018 and I don't think that he's going to want to continue running the day-to-day operations while the team rebuilds for another push in 2020.

 

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:13 PM)
A stat dependent on his offense isnt going to drag down his value. Everyone in the league knows how good he is, it isnt a secret. The White Sox arent gonna be like "well, he doesnt have a lot of wins soooooo maybe we should take less"

 

 

Reading 101. I said Q will not bring as much as Sale in a trade. The 4 minor league prospects might get Q but not Sale.

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QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 11:09 AM)
Ahh the annual trade Sale article.

 

Boston doesn't need Sale, they have pitching.

 

I'd look at a contender like Texas or Pittsburgh with mediocre pitching.

 

You aren't getting stars back for Sale. Contending teams don't trade stars.

 

Unless you don't agree they should trade Sale, which is fine.

 

But don't realistically expect star return.

 

This was like reading a Phil Rodgers Sox/Cub trades. No journalism bias in this one at all.

 

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:21 PM)
You do realize if the season ended today, Jose Quintana would be the AL Cy Young award winner?

 

In your eyes maybe. But in the ESPN predictor he is not even in Top 10

 

 

2016 Cy Young Predictor - AL

 

RK PLAYER TEAM CYP G GS IP ER K SV SHO W-L ERA VB

1 Chris Tillman BAL 96.0 15 15 89.2 31 86 0 0 10-1 3.11 12

2 Chris Sale CHW 93.2 14 14 98.0 32 93 0 1 11-2 2.94 0

3 Zach Britton BAL 90.4 28 0 29.0 3 33 21 0 2-1 0.93 12

4 Danny Salazar CLE 86.8 13 13 80.2 20 96 0 0 8-3 2.23 12

5 Cole Hamels TEX 80.6 14 14 90.2 29 87 0 0 7-1 2.88 12

6 Steven Wright BOS 79.3 14 14 98.1 22 80 0 0 8-4 2.01 0

7 Josh Tomlin CLE 77.6 13 13 81.1 30 53 0 0 8-1 3.32 12

8 Colby Lewis TEX 75.5 14 14 93.0 29 58 0 0 6-0 2.81 12

9 Jordan Zimmermann DET 69.3 13 13 86.0 31 54 0 0 9-3 3.24 0

10 Rich Hill OAK 67.7 11 11 64.0 16 74 0 0 8-3 2.25 0

 

 

 

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Some of these Sale returns are kind of ridiculous. Switch jerseys and say what you'd give up for Sale if you were the BoSox.

 

Yoan Mocada is a good reasonable start with Pedroia in the way. Owens is too. And the Sox covet Swihart (even though I'm not sure he won't be the next Weiters rather than Posey -- true talent would have played his way into the every day lineup by now)

After that? I just feel like you might be hard pressed to get much more. Also I think you can get the same haul basically next year, so why rush it this year?

 

I still am giving this club 1 total more year. June 2017 then close the coffin on this team.

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QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:33 PM)
Some of these Sale returns are kind of ridiculous. Switch jerseys and say what you'd give up for Sale if you were the BoSox.

 

Yoan Mocada is a good reasonable start with Pedroia in the way. Owens is too. And the Sox covet Swihart (even though I'm not sure he won't be the next Weiters rather than Posey -- true talent would have played his way into the every day lineup by now)

After that? I just feel like you might be hard pressed to get much more. Also I think you can get the same haul basically next year, so why rush it this year?

 

I still am giving this club 1 total more year. June 2017 then close the coffin on this team.

Did you see the Shelby Miller package bud? No these aren't ridiculous. You need one young impact player back to start the conversation.

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