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Countdown to the Trade Deadline..

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:54 PM)
Maybe something crazy will happen, but remember this off season Cincy was so utterly uninterested in our second tier of prospects (we wouldn't trade them Anderson, Fulmer, etc) that we couldn't get a deal done for Frazier straight up. Nothing got done until Hahn enlisted the Dodgers. My guess is that the odds of a Bruce deal are slim to none.

 

Which is fine honestly, I know Morneau is a wild card right now but him at DH ridding us of Avi is a massive upgrade. Lucroy would be the only trade target I'd inquire about since he'd round the lineup out so well at a position he can hold until Collins can potentially take over.

 

Anderson

Eaton

Abreu

Lucroy

Melky

Frazier

Morneau

Lawrie

Jackson

 

That's a legit lineup. Pick up a solid bullpen arm if possible, get Rodon going better and this team will be in it until the end.

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:57 PM)
My requisite post

 

The Sox will never get anywhere if they keep moving their better prospects for 1-2 year veterans who have reached peak. Yes, it will meet the Williams/Hahn mythical "3 (now 2) year window" and it obviously would excite fans. But the Sox won't win.

Some teams can do this sort of thing...those with stocked farms. The Sox system is thin, including, despite claims to the contrary, pitching.

Looking for a catcher is particularly bad idea, as the marginal value of a catcher upgrade isn't as great as, say, the marginal value of a hitter, but the cost would be much higher.

 

Thanks for your input. We had no idea how you felt on the matter.

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:57 PM)
My requisite post

 

Ok, this was fair.

 

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 04:00 PM)
Thanks for your input. We had no idea how you felt on the matter.

 

:lol:

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:57 PM)
My requisite post

 

The Sox will never get anywhere if they keep moving their better prospects for 1-2 year veterans who have reached peak. Yes, it will meet the Williams/Hahn mythical "3 (now 2) year window" and it obviously would excite fans. But the Sox won't win.

Some teams can do this sort of thing...those with stocked farms. The Sox system is thin, including, despite claims to the contrary, pitching.

Looking for a catcher is particularly bad idea, as the marginal value of a catcher upgrade isn't as great as, say, the marginal value of a hitter, but the cost would be much higher.

 

 

They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system.

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QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:59 PM)
Which is fine honestly, I know Morneau is a wild card right now but him at DH ridding us of Avi is a massive upgrade. Lucroy would be the only trade target I'd inquire about since he'd round the lineup out so well at a position he can hold until Collins can potentially take over.

 

Anderson

Eaton

Abreu

Lucroy

Melky

Frazier

Morneau

Lawrie

Jackson

 

That's a legit lineup. Pick up a solid bullpen arm if possible, get Rodon going better and this team will be in it until the end.

 

As a DH, Morneau doesn't even have to that much to drastically improve what we have gotten out of that position, not to mention being a left really balances out the line up a lot better. Even if he puts up only a .700 OPS, that is a 50 point improvement over what Avi has given us so far this year.

 

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM)
They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system.

 

A 7 foot center in the system would be intriguing.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM)
They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system.

:huh:

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 02:07 PM)
They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system.

 

Were you including Tyler to be facetious, or you're really more confident in him this year, compared to last? Capable of putting up a better season than, let's say, Marcus Semien's 2016 so far?

 

As to earlier posts about Saladino being a centerpiece for Lucroy, that's borderline crazy talk.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 05:23 PM)
Were you including Tyler to be facetious, or you're really more confident in him this year, compared to last? Capable of putting up a better season than, let's say, Marcus Semien's 2016 so far?

 

As to earlier posts about Saladino being a centerpiece for Lucroy, that's borderline crazy talk.

Agree. Saladino isn't a centerpiece to a trade unless it's purely a salary dump.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:23 PM)
Were you including Tyler to be facetious, or you're really more confident in him this year, compared to last? Capable of putting up a better season than, let's say, Marcus Semien's 2016 so far?

 

As to earlier posts about Saladino being a centerpiece for Lucroy, that's borderline crazy talk.

 

I suppose you are referring to my crazy talk about Lawrie or Saladino plus Trey M, and C. Hawkins to which I quickly admitted Fulmer would have to most likely be in any deal for Lucroy. So I beat you to the punch on discounting my own idea though it never was Saladino as a centerpiece since Lawrie was the original choice.

 

I just have a hard time figuring out what 1.5 years of a guy is worth. Always seems like too much to me like with Samardzija. 1 year for all those years and players given up seems so very very wasteful. Or even the 2 years of Frazier and Lawrie . I'm not quite a hero worshipper nor a prospect guy. Just try to find the fine line on when exactly is the right time to give up many years for a year or 2 of a decent player. Prospects run the greater risk of flopping than the veteran which is balanced out by the prospect(s) having time to improve .

 

I tend to think organizations give up too much for rentals but that's me. Winning instantly has its own reward to those who have a chance to do it.

 

I then changed it to Fulmer , Saladino + or ++ for Lucroy and Tyler Thornburg in subsequent posts.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 05:27 PM)
I suppose you are referring to my crazy talk about Lawrie or Saladino plus Trey M, and C. Hawkins to which I quickly admitted Fulmer would have to most likely be in any deal for Lucroy. So I beat you to the punch on discounting my own idea though it never was Saladino as a centerpiece since Lawrie was the original choice.

 

I just have a hard time figuring out what 1.5 years of a guy is worth. Always seems like too much to me like with Samardzija. 1 year for all those years and players given up seems so very very wasteful. Or even the 2 years of Frazier and Lawrie . I'm not quite a hero worshipper nor a prospect guy. Just try to find the fine line on when exactly is the right time to give up many years for a year or 2 of a decent player. Prospects run the greater risk of flopping than the veteran which is balanced out by the prospect(s) having time to improve .

 

I tend to think organizations give up too much for rentals but that's me. Winning instantly has its own reward to those who have a chance to do it.

 

I then changed it to Fulmer , Saladino + or ++ for Lucroy and Tyler Thornburg in subsequent posts.

 

 

It would start with Fulmer in my opinion so I agree. I'd honestly probably prefer trying to package Fulmer for Wil Myers whom you'd have control over for another few seasons. He's only 25.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 03:07 PM)
They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system.

Yes, Hahn saved his scant few A prospects, just like any decent organization would. He hasn't traded for A level veteran talent either.

But he's sent away a lot of Bs. And he has far fewer Bs than other orgs. Far fewer.

 

And yes, I know yall know how I feel. Yall post the same trade ideas, and I post the same objections and suggest saving the Sox prospects.

 

There is no trade of which you can conceive that will make the Sox legitimate world series contenders. No gaggle of Brewers or Cargo will put this team into the World Series.

The Sox budget is competitive...IF you have a core of young talent. The Sox don't have near enough to take starting jobs; and another effect of trading the Bs, is that Hahn squanders some of his budget on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers, when your B prospects could take those spots.

Edited by GreenSox

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 05:27 PM)
I suppose you are referring to my crazy talk about Lawrie or Saladino plus Trey M, and C. Hawkins to which I quickly admitted Fulmer would have to most likely be in any deal for Lucroy. So I beat you to the punch on discounting my own idea though it never was Saladino as a centerpiece since Lawrie was the original choice.

 

I just have a hard time figuring out what 1.5 years of a guy is worth. Always seems like too much to me like with Samardzija. 1 year for all those years and players given up seems so very very wasteful. Or even the 2 years of Frazier and Lawrie . I'm not quite a hero worshipper nor a prospect guy. Just try to find the fine line on when exactly is the right time to give up many years for a year or 2 of a decent player. Prospects run the greater risk of flopping than the veteran which is balanced out by the prospect(s) having time to improve .

 

I tend to think organizations give up too much for rentals but that's me. Winning instantly has its own reward to those who have a chance to do it.

 

I then changed it to Fulmer , Saladino + or ++ for Lucroy and Tyler Thornburg in subsequent posts.

 

Actually responding to Southsider2k5's list of remaining "young core" guys, but good response!

 

And yeah, also the idea of Saladino as a centerpiece of anything. He can be a piece, with Fulmer. That said, you leave yourself having to go out once again and find another 2B unless you're a huge Carlos Sanchez fan.

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 07:13 PM)
Actually responding to Southsider2k5's list of remaining "young core" guys, but good response!

 

And yeah, also the idea of Saladino as a centerpiece of anything. He can be a piece, with Fulmer. That said, you leave yourself having to go out once again and find another 2B unless you're a huge Carlos Sanchez fan.

 

Why would they need another 2nd baseman ? Lawrie would still be here and Sanchez as a backup isn't bad, But I did also mention Steve Pearce as a supersub since he has been playing infield positions for TB.

 

And umm SS2k5 never mentioned Saladino in a trade for Lucroy. Just mentioned him as a core guy.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2016 -> 01:07 PM)
They haven't been moving "their better prospects". They have been moving second and third tier guys. Tim Anderson is here. Carlos Rodon is here. Tyler Saladino is here. Carson Fulmer is still in the system. Steven Adams is still in the system.

 

Semien, Montas and Trayce Thompson seem to disagree since Semien has 19 HR's, Montas is still in the top 100 prospects despite injuries and not even pitching. Might make a case for Thompson but probably don't need Jackson if we still had him and he has more HR's than Abreu. Their slugging, OPS, and OPS+ are all pretty equal despite Traces' low batting average.

 

Semien has a better SLG, WAR, and OPS than Frazier. But if Frazier is supposed to be our best hitter Semien has been at the very least his equal this year.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 02:24 AM)
Why would they need another 2nd baseman ? Lawrie would still be here and Sanchez as a backup isn't bad, But I did also mention Steve Pearce as a supersub since he has been playing infield positions for TB.

 

And umm SS2k5 never mentioned Saladino in a trade for Lucroy. Just mentioned him as a core guy.

 

I should have just responded directly to his quote.

 

About inclusion of Saladino in that care group of "young prospects" that hadn't been dealt...I was questioning his name being there. Wasn't sure if he was just trying to poke at GreenSox by pointing out we hadn't traded him YET (of course, which would lead to another discussion of why Saladino wasn't getting more playing time or why they traded for Lawrie when Saladino COULD play that position for the next 5+ years).

Edited by caulfield12

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They need to be blowing s*** up, not adding more pieces to a broken train.

 

8 years without reaching the post season.

 

Hey Sox, you're doing it WRONG.

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Can cross Ziegler off the most. Boston picked him up last night for a couple A ballers.

 

 

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 07:04 AM)
They need to be blowing s*** up, not adding more pieces to a broken train.

 

8 years without reaching the post season.

 

Hey Sox, you're doing it WRONG.

 

 

That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality.

 

 

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Personally I hope the Sox do not trade any more potential future assets for a longshot chance of making the playoffs.

 

The manager still makes far to many questionable decisions (latest example using Beck in a two run game Friday night), the lineup still has a lot of holes and the pitching is thing along with a thin bench and very little help in the minors.

 

Anything is possible but as I said the odds are very long.

 

I wouldn't do it but the Sox probably will knowing the Sox.

 

Mark

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 07:23 AM)
Can cross Ziegler off the most. Boston picked him up last night for a couple A ballers.

 

 

 

 

 

That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality.

Dbacks do some things I don't understand. Boston gave up very little.

Edited by oldsox

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Puig could be dealt. Wonder what LA wants for him? I know he's been banged up and inconsistent. Just another name to throw out there. My guy Myers won't be dealt. I'd like to get a bat with contractural control for a few seasons.

Edited by SouthSideSale

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 07:23 AM)
Can cross Ziegler off the most. Boston picked him up last night for a couple A ballers.

 

 

 

 

 

That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality.

 

I question the competence of the scouting in this organization.

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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 03:02 AM)
I question the competence of the scouting in this organization.

You mean to tell me that you don't think Avi is a 5 tool player? :lol:

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 06:23 AM)
That ain't gonna happen until JR is gone. Time to face reality.

The reality is that in this the 22nd year of the existence of the AL Central, with small market Cleveland well on its way to wining this division for the eighth time, you combine that with how many times the other two small market teams have won the division, and you'll see that the large market White Sox, with its resources advantage, has been aced a whopping 15 times by a small market team over that 22 year period.

 

15 division titles between Cleveland, Minnesota, and KC, and just three for the Sox. This despite the Sox being the only team in the bunch with a sweetheart lease deal in place that allows them to keep far more of its revenues than those other teams can. It's clear what those other teams lack in $$$ resources they make up for in superior front office capital running those organizations.

 

So yes, the reality is more of the same until that time when a change at the top finally occurs.

Edited by Thad Bosley

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