UNC Shootings....Hate Crimes or Random Targeted Violence?

[caulfield12]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/11/us/chapel-hi...ting/index.html

[Jenksismyhero]

I think all indications so far point to "parking spot argument" as the issue there.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think us even guessing at this point is silly. Need to know more.

 

Awful either way. And I sure hope this isn't racially motivated, but that seems at least possible.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I find that hard to believe. This guy was either a total loon or this was racially motivated.

 

Why? Road rage is known to result in deaths.

[caulfield12]

Why? Road rage is known to result in deaths.

 

 

Point blank, execution style?

 

Usually, logic would tell you they'd be more chaotic than the SEEMING pattern here.

 

 

Once again, social media trails are the first place the media goes...trial by Facebook.

Edited February 11, 2015 by caulfield12

[GoSox05]

I'd like to get more details before saying why he did this, but executing a family doesn't seem like something someone would do over a parking spot.

 

 

 

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I disagree. The fact that the individual did what he did gives us great precedent to infer what kind of person he may be.

My personal view is this is exactly why we end up with some much high-speed outrage on the interwebs that turns out to be wrong or misguided later.

 

I mean, sure, you can say that a guy who killed three people execution-style clearly isn't right in the head. That goes without saying. But beyond that? We know very little right now.

 

[caulfield12]

For his sake, he better hope he's not pre-judged on physical appearance...or he's in a world of hurt.

 

 

The dude could have shown up in the latest episode of Banshee on Cinemax with Aryan Nation/Brotherhood tats and he would have fit in perfectly. Luckily, they'll probably have him looking like Christian Grey by the time of his trial.

Edited February 11, 2015 by caulfield12

[Big Hurtin]

The 46-year-old suspect, Craig Stephen Hicks...

 

So, "3 Muslims were murdered by Hicks in NC" could be a legit headline? It's strange how the names seem to be ironic in these cases. You also have the three name thing.

 

I don't see any reasonable dispute that would cause someone to shoot three people in the head execution style.

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/02/1...ml#.VNvbldKUdsI

 

 

Protected free speech or the makings of his eventual demise? That last line is VERY close to a threat/call to arms. Speech is protected, up to the boundary line of potentially injuring other groups of people as a result.

 

“I give your religion as much respect as your religion gives me,” he wrote. “There’s nothing complicated about it, and I have every right to insult a religion that goes out of its way to insult, to judge, and to condemn me as an inadequate human being – which your religion does with self-righteous gusto.”

 

It’s not clear if Hicks was referring to a particular religion or all religions. He continued:

 

“When it comes to insults, your religion started this, not me,” he wrote. “If your religion kept its big mouth shut, so would I. But given that it doesn’t, and given the enormous harm that your religion has done in this world, I’d say that I have not only a right, but a duty, to insult it, as does every rational, thinking person on this planet.”

 

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/02/1...l#storylink=cpy

Edited February 11, 2015 by caulfield12

[Jenksismyhero]

According to the article caulfield posted, this was an "ongoing dispute." Meaning this was not a spur of the moment loss of self control like a road rage related incident would be.

 

We don't know, obviously, but it's more likely that if you're having an ongoing dispute with someone, you get upset that last time and finally snap, just like road rage. I don't know why you'd jump to racism if there's a beef between these people that pre-existed their murder.

[caulfield12]

We don't know, obviously, but it's more likely that if you're having an ongoing dispute with someone, you get upset that last time and finally snap, just like road rage. I don't know why you'd jump to racism if there's a beef between these people that pre-existed their murder.

 

 

About the only way to "spin" this positively would be to fill in the line:

 

Three (pick any group or subgroup of people in the US).....were murdered in a robbery attempt.

 

Maybe if it was three senior citizens, that would be logical, since they're inherently weaker and easier to rob.

 

 

Now of course, if it was 3 Catholics, 3 Jews....it COULD be random, that if they were all related or friends and all happened to be in the same place, it would make sense that they were all of the same religion, but then you start connecting the dots with the Facebook comments and its a much more difficult argument to make.

 

 

[caulfield12]

We don't know, obviously, but it's more likely that if you're having an ongoing dispute with someone, you get upset that last time and finally snap, just like road rage. I don't know why you'd jump to racism if there's a beef between these people that pre-existed their murder.

 

 

Except for the fact that there's a definition connection between his religious convictions and their faiths.

 

His wife is trying to say "he's basically the kind of guy who had parking disputes with numerous neighbors," and yet he didn't kill any of them (OTHER neighbors), threaten them on multiple occasions (with his gun visible) or make comments about their religions/churches that were confrontational in nature.

Edited February 11, 2015 by caulfield12

[chw42]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/02/1...ml#.VNvbldKUdsI

 

 

Protected free speech or the makings of his eventual demise? That last line is VERY close to a threat/call to arms. Speech is protected, up to the boundary line of potentially injuring other groups of people as a result.

 

“I give your religion as much respect as your religion gives me,” he wrote. “There’s nothing complicated about it, and I have every right to insult a religion that goes out of its way to insult, to judge, and to condemn me as an inadequate human being – which your religion does with self-righteous gusto.”

 

It’s not clear if Hicks was referring to a particular religion or all religions. He continued:

 

“When it comes to insults, your religion started this, not me,” he wrote. “If your religion kept its big mouth shut, so would I. But given that it doesn’t, and given the enormous harm that your religion has done in this world, I’d say that I have not only a right, but a duty, to insult it, as does every rational, thinking person on this planet.”

 

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/02/1...l#storylink=cpy

 

These are the people who give atheists a bad name.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not discounting that it COULD be a factor. I'm criticizing the straight away assumption that it IS a factor here. There's another, more concrete explanation. The facebook stuff and his opinions are just media fodder at this point. Racist claims are big for the media because both sides have strong opinions about it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Balta1701]

I'm not discounted that it COULD be a factor. I'm criticizing the straight away assumption that it IS a factor here. There's another, more concrete explanation. The facebook stuff and his opinions are just media fodder at this point. Racist claims are big for the media because both sides have strong opinions about it.

Just to be clear...you're criticizing anyone who's certain about it and not criticizing the DOJ/law enforcement for investigating it as a possible hate crime also, right?

 

Edit: One thing worth thinking about...even if it isn't true at all that it's a hate crime, "3 people in a small community" being killed would also drive a fearful response in that community whatever it is, so "reporting the fact that people in that community are now fearful" would probably be an accurate thing to do as well.

[Jenksismyhero]

Just to be clear...you're criticizing anyone who's certain about it and not criticizing the DOJ/law enforcement for investigating it as a possible hate crime also, right?

 

Edit: One thing worth thinking about...even if it isn't true at all that it's a hate crime, "3 people in a small community" being killed would also drive a fearful response in that community whatever it is, so "reporting the fact that people in that community are now fearful" would probably be an accurate thing to do as well.

 

Yes. Look into it, consider it, don't assume right away that's the case.

[caulfield12]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/us/chapel-hi...ting/index.html

 

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Looks like this guy was actually an atheist, and often on social media pointed out the similarities (in bad ways) between Christianity and Islam. Doesn't seem to have been bent against some one religion or group - more against all religion period.

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

Looks like this guy was actually an atheist, and often on social media pointed out the similarities (in bad ways) between Christianity and Islam. Doesn't seem to have been bent against some one religion or group - more against all religion period.

And he liked that noted hate group, the SPLC. Along with a host of liberal websites and personalities. Makes his love of guns seem out of place.

[caulfield12]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/opinion/khan...ting/index.html

[Texsox]

And he liked that noted hate group, the SPLC. Along with a host of liberal websites and personalities. Makes his love of guns seem out of place.

 

Hi Alpha. Sorry if I seem out of place

 

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/opinion/khan...ting/index.html

"Let's be real. People don't die over parking spots." Yes, they sometimes do. Sometimes they die over shoes. Or beer. Or just because. But let's be real. Every time a Muslim is killed in America, it isn't some act of 'Islamaphobia', despite how much you want it to be. (Not you, the writer) With every new act of Islamic terrorism, we are immediately bombarded with the worry of some huge muslim backlash that never materializes.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Some of his (facebook?) postings that various news sources have run with are kind of questionable when you put this and that together, but news sources have a way of making that kind of stuff work for their stories. That said- does it even matter whether or not this was a hate crime? It was a triple homicide.

[Kyyle23]

Some of his (facebook?) postings that various news sources have run with are kind of questionable when you put this and that together, but news sources have a way of making that kind of stuff work for their stories. That said- does it even matter whether or not this was a hate crime? It was a triple homicide.

 

yea, this guy was unstable, religion or not. The neighbors had meetings about him, he used to walk around showing off his gun and make vague threats.