NCsoxfan Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Why does Hahn deserve to keep his job and oversee the rebuild? Would he have been fired in other organizations? Should he be let go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Hard to tell. First of all, it's really unclear who is in charge in this organization. I'm not saying he has done a great job, but I'm concerned he might not have full control of personnel based on the various comments from Kenny on the way the organization works. In most organizations, the GM is hired as head of personnel with a few exceptions. To answer your question, most organizations would have fired Hahn, but most would probably not have his boss working that closely over his shoulder. Edited July 31, 2016 by Deadpool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 the whole organization needs a reboot. I think there is enough talent to be much better than they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) Why does Hahn deserve to keep his job and oversee the rebuild? Would he have been fired in other organizations? Should he be let go? Obviously because everything that bad happens is KW's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Hahn appears to be mired in mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) Why does Hahn deserve to keep his job and oversee the rebuild? Would he have been fired in other organizations? Should he be let go? What rebuild ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) Hard to tell. First of all, it's really unclear who is in charge in this organization. I'm not saying he has done a great job, but I'm concerned he might not have full control of personnel based on the various comments from Kenny on the way the organization works. In most organizations, the GM is hired as head of personnel with a few exceptions. To answer your question, most organizations would have fired Hahn, but most would probably not have his boss working that closely over his shoulder. Deadpool: I'm glad you brought this up. Heard from one of the mainstream media members yesterday and I was asking about this. Was told that Hahn still isn't "up" on things (direct quote) and that's why Kenny steps in as much as he has been. This brings up an interesting point. This is year three of Hahn supposedly being in charge. What could he possible be not "up" on after all that time? (Not counting the years he spent in the organization working under Kenny...) Just gets curiouser and curiouser doesn't it? Mark Edited July 31, 2016 by Lip Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:26 PM) Deadpool: I'm glad you brought this up. Heard from one of the mainstream media members yesterday and I was asking about this. Was told that Hahn still isn't "up" on things (direct quote) and that's why Kenny steps in as much as he has been. This brings up an interesting point. This is year three of Hahn supposedly being in charge. What could he possible be not "up" on after all that time? (Not counting the years he spent in the organization working under Kenny...) Just gets curiouser and curiouser doesn't it? Mark Definitely. Kenny had said in the past that Rick will want to make a move and will come talk to Kenny and debate the merits of the potential move. But if that's the case, then Kenny is the GM. I'll go as far as saying that it's possible Rick could have more success elsewhere, but might ruin his chances under this regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Easy answer, he doesn't. Horrible job as a GM, as both big league team and farm system suck. Edited July 31, 2016 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) Easy answer, he doesn't. Horrible job as a GM, as both big league team and farm system suck. neither Chicago team has a GM they are both puppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Who says there will be a rebuild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) Hard to tell. First of all, it's really unclear who is in charge in this organization. I'm not saying he has done a great job, but I'm concerned he might not have full control of personnel based on the various comments from Kenny on the way the organization works. In most organizations, the GM is hired as head of personnel with a few exceptions. To answer your question, most organizations would have fired Hahn, but most would probably not have his boss working that closely over his shoulder. Say what now? Its Jerry, then Kenny, then Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I don't think the training wheels have ever been taken off for the guy. That said, you either do that and give him full reign or bring someone in to take over the whole damn thing, someone hopefully established that'll bring in his own staff, manager, coaches, scouts, etc. Kenny and Robin shouldn't be employed at the end of the season. As long as that last part happens, I'm good to give the guy a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) Easy answer, he doesn't. Horrible job as a GM, as both big league team and farm system suck. That simple. hands tied or not. He attached his name to this as GM and should have full credit of the product. Only a fool would have taken the GM spot if they wouldn't have a great amount of creative control. Edited July 31, 2016 by TheTruth05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) Hard to tell. First of all, it's really unclear who is in charge in this organization. I'm not saying he has done a great job, but I'm concerned he might not have full control of personnel based on the various comments from Kenny on the way the organization works. In most organizations, the GM is hired as head of personnel with a few exceptions. To answer your question, most organizations would have fired Hahn, but most would probably not have his boss working that closely over his shoulder. Considering rabbit and others have said Hahn wanted to rebuild 3 years ago and KW/Jerry wanted to retool, I can see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) Say what now? Its Jerry then Kenny, then Rick. It's the 15th year of this three-headed monster running the show, and just two post season trips during that decade and a half time frame, with the last one coming eight years ago. That's pretty futile no matter how you slice and dice it. But for certain, any and all criticism and/or skepticism of the organization should be distributed to all three, not just to one or two of them. They're all in this together. Edited August 1, 2016 by Thad Bosley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I'm seeing the same patterns in Hahn and Kenny. This makes me think JR is in far more control. Most organization would have fired most of their minor league personnel by now. The Twins are going all out on this. Promoting within seems like their last step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 06:15 PM) I'm seeing the same patterns in Hahn and Kenny. This makes me think JR is in far more control. Most organization would have fired most of their minor league personnel by now. The Twins are going all out on this. Promoting within seems like their last step. As recently as last year, Mr. Reinsdorf said he was still involved in the "day-to-day operations" of the ball club. So you draw your own conclusions as to what that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Shields is having a bad year. Hahn trades 2 prospects for him and gets the money cut by 50%. Upton is having a very good year; Jays trade 1 prospect (similar to Tatis, if that) and get the money cut by 2/3. That is just one example that makes me wonder about the negotiation skill of this front office. Yes, you can come up with reasons (one is a pitcher). But there are other examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I can't judge the guy since we are not privy to all that goes on behind closed doors, but my hunch is that Hahn hasn't a clue how to scout/evaluate talent. Minor problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) Easy answer, he doesn't. Horrible job as a GM, as both big league team and farm system suck. His last 3 drafts have been better than pretty much any draft under Kenny Williams from like 2003-2009 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 09:36 PM) His last 3 drafts have been better than pretty much any draft under Kenny Williams from like 2003-2009 though. Indeed. And on the plus side, when looking for prospects, his hit rate is pretty good, especially as he never traded for any elite prospects (and never paid an elite price). He was 1/3 with Avi, Eaton and Davidson (although Davidson appeared to be turning the corner). But he was 2/3 with the A Ball prospects in the Peavy trade (Wendelkin threw well today for Oakland). He got a nice prospect for Beckham if you can believe it (but then squandered him when trading for someone more proven - Kahnle). This is pretty good return for non-elite prospect fishing. Trading up is where he's gone awry, imo. I hope we break this down, but I am glad he's holding out for 5 top prospects+ for Sale; he can give up on his ML player demand, but not the elite prospect demand. Edited August 1, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) That is just one example that makes me wonder about the negotiation skill of this front office. Yes, you can come up with reasons (one is a pitcher). But there are other examples. Two are pitchers, but the point still stands. Theoretically, the best players on this roster have extremely team friendly contracts (Sale, Q, Eaton) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) Shields is having a bad year. Hahn trades 2 prospects for him and gets the money cut by 50%. Upton is having a very good year; Jays trade 1 prospect (similar to Tatis, if that) and get the money cut by 2/3. That is just one example that makes me wonder about the negotiation skill of this front office. Yes, you can come up with reasons (one is a pitcher). But there are other examples. I don't think those situations are as comparable as you outlined them to be. Markets were drastically different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) I don't think those situations are as comparable as you outlined them to be. Markets were drastically different.. It's hard for me to believe that there was much of a market for Shields, an aging pitcher who was getting tatooed. But let's assume there was. Shouldn't Hahn be able to move him now, now that he is pitching much better and the market is tight? And if Hahn did strike a good deal the first time, now that he's pitching well, not only should he move him, but for more than he paid. Edited August 1, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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