Sale and Quintana

[flavum]

Great years for both, but I'd take Q higher in Cy voting. Some numbers:

 

Sale 25 starts 177.2 innings. 3.14 ERA, 18 quality starts, 17 starts of 7+ innings and 3 runs or fewer, 5 complete games

 

Quintana 26 starts 172.1 innings. 2.77 ERA, 20 quality starts, 12 starts of 7+ innings and 3 runs or fewer, 0 complete games

 

vs Cleveland, Detroit, and Kansas City

 

Sale

4-9 vs Cle 7.0, 3

5-24 vs Cle 3.1 6

5-29 at KC 7.0 2

6-4 at Det 6.1, 4

6-10 vs KC 6.0, 5

6-15 vs Det 7.0, 3

7-23 vs Det Suspended, DNP

8-3 at Det 8.0, 2

8-9 at KC 7.0, 3

 

5/8 quality starts

51.2 innings 4.88 ERA

 

Quintana

5-20 vs KC 6.1, 4

5-25 vs Cle 6.0, 3

6-5 at Det 4.2, 5

6-11 vs KC 8.0, 3

6-17 at Cle 7.2, 2

7-24 vs Det 6.2, 0

8-4 at Det 7.1, 3

8-10 at KC 7.1, 1

8-16 at Cle 6.0, 2

 

7/9 quality starts

60.0 innings 3.45 ERA

 

What's left:

 

Sale:

8-31 at Det

9-5 vs Det

9-11 vs KC

9-16 at KC

9-21 at Phi

9-27 vs TB

10-2 vs Min

 

Quintana:

9-1 at Min

9-6 vs Det

9-12 vs Cle

9-17 at KC

9-23 at Cle

9-28 vs TB

 

If Sale wants to make up for being a baby on July 23, he should pitch on the last day of the season vs the Twins and make his 32nd start.

[lasttriptotulsa]

They've both been pretty damn good this year. Their FIPs are almost identical at 3.35 for Sale and 3.34 for Quintana. Sale averages just over 7 IP per start, Quintana is at just under 6 2/3. The biggest difference this year has been the consistency. Sale's been up and down a bit this year, Quintana has been pretty consistent. Quintana has just 2 games this year where he has given up 5 or more runs (5, 6). Sale has had 5 (6, 5, 5, 8, 5). So Quintana has only had 2 games where he made it real tough on the offense (they won 1 of the 2 games). They lost 3 of the 5 for Sale.

 

I think overall Quintana has had a slightly better season due to the consistency but Sale will finish higher in the Cy Young voting due to the name recognition and the numbers of wins he has. Yes, I know wins don't mean much for pitchers but voters still look at it.

[bmags]

Disagree.

 

Hamels fell down last night.

 

Q will reign.

 

C

Y

 

Y

O

QUINTANA

N

G

[bmags]

YOU KNOW YOU PUT A LOTTA WORK INTO SPACING AND IT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED "IP.BOARD"

[OmarComing25]

Disagree.

 

Hamels fell down last night.

 

Q will reign.

 

C

Y

 

Y

O

QUINTANA

N

G

I really would much rather Q win it than Sale, it's almost going to make me root against Sale a little bit this next month, as silly as that sounds. Love what the Mariners did to Hamels yesterday, let's hope the Twins can do the same to Kluber today.

[Eminor3rd]

Disagree.

 

Hamels fell down last night.

 

Q will reign.

 

C

Y

 

Y

O

QUINTANA

N

G

 

- C -

- Y -

 

- Y -

- O -

QUINTANA

- N -

- G -

[bmags]

Look at the big brains on Eminor

[lasttriptotulsa]

It would be cool to see Quintana lead the league in ERA regardless of whether he wins the Cy Young. Unless of course dumb f*** Torre decides to steal it away from him like he did to Sale two years ago.

[bmags]

Yeah leading the league in ERA is cool. Fulmer is going to be tough to pass but I obviously Q pitched more innings.

[Y2Jimmy0]

CY Young Race

 

Corey Kluber: 175.2 IP, 3.07 ERA, 3.11 FIP, WHIP 1.05, SIERA 3.53, 4.5 fWAR

 

Jose Quintana: 172.1 IP, 2.77 ERA, 3.34 FIP, WHIP 1.10, SIERA 3.95, 4.4 fWAR

 

Chris Sale: 177.2 IP 3.14 ERA, 3.35 FIP, WHIP 1.00, SIERA 3.51, 4.4 fWAR

 

David Price: 183.2 IP, 3.97 ERA, 3.46 FIP, WHIP 1.23, SIERA 3.55, 3.9 fWAR

 

Masahiro Tanaka: 173 IP, 3.12 ERA, 3.26 FIP, WHIP 1.06, SIERA 3.69, 4.5 fWAR

 

Kluber with the slight lead I think as of now but a wide open AL Cy Young race.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

CY Young Race

 

Corey Kluber: 175.2 IP, 3.07 ERA, 3.11 FIP, WHIP 1.05, SIERA 3.53, 4.5 fWAR

 

Jose Quintana: 172.1 IP, 2.77 ERA, 3.34 FIP, WHIP 1.10, SIERA 3.95, 4.4 fWAR

 

Chris Sale: 177.2 IP 3.14 ERA, 3.35 FIP, WHIP 1.00, SIERA 3.51, 4.4 fWAR

 

David Price: 183.2 IP, 3.97 ERA, 3.46 FIP, WHIP 1.23, SIERA 3.55, 3.9 fWAR

 

Masahiro Tanaka: 173 IP, 3.12 ERA, 3.26 FIP, WHIP 1.06, SIERA 3.69, 4.5 fWAR

 

Kluber with the slight lead I think as of now but a wide open AL Cy Young race.

There is no way in hell that David Price should even be considered for the award. He's had an awful year.

[Y2Jimmy0]

There is no way in hell that David Price should even be considered for the award. He's had an awful year.

 

183 innings of a 3.46 FIP isn't awful. It's not good enough for the CY though.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Yeah leading the league in ERA is cool. Fulmer is going to be tough to pass but I obviously Q pitched more innings.

 

Not sure he will end up even being qualified. He's not currently (just 1.1 IP shy) but who knows how he'll hold up down the stretch in his first big league season. The last two starts have been a little rough. He only threw 10.1 innings between the two raising his ERA from 2.25 to 2.69. Unless they shuffle the rotation he has 6 starts left. He will need to average 5.1 per start to be qualified. A couple short outings could do him in. He is only .08 ahead of Quintana anyways so catching him is doable with the way Quintana has been pitching and Fulmer scuffling a bit in the 2nd half compared to his 1st half (still just a 3.50 ERA in the 2nd half).

[Thad Bosley]

If you are of the mind that the Sox should trade both Q and Sale this offseason and see to maximize an even greater return than what could have been garnered at the trade deadline, then what better moniker to hang around Q's neck than "Cy Young Award Winner". We already know we'd get a king's ransome for Sale as he is by far the better known quantity out there. But you might be able to match that return more easily if Q were to win that reward. It would be the ultimate in selling high on both of them.

[lasttriptotulsa]

There is no way in hell that David Price should even be considered for the award. He's had an awful year.

 

His first 7 starts were pretty poor but since then he has a 3.16 ERA and a 1.180 WHIP. Far from awful.

[OmarComing25]

CY Young Race

 

Corey Kluber: 175.2 IP, 3.07 ERA, 3.11 FIP, WHIP 1.05, SIERA 3.53, 4.5 fWAR

 

Jose Quintana: 172.1 IP, 2.77 ERA, 3.34 FIP, WHIP 1.10, SIERA 3.95, 4.4 fWAR

 

Chris Sale: 177.2 IP 3.14 ERA, 3.35 FIP, WHIP 1.00, SIERA 3.51, 4.4 fWAR

 

David Price: 183.2 IP, 3.97 ERA, 3.46 FIP, WHIP 1.23, SIERA 3.55, 3.9 fWAR

 

Masahiro Tanaka: 173 IP, 3.12 ERA, 3.26 FIP, WHIP 1.06, SIERA 3.69, 4.5 fWAR

 

Kluber with the slight lead I think as of now but a wide open AL Cy Young race.

I like to go with 50/50 WAR for the Cy Young, gives credit for both results on the field and for pitching well enough on the things you have the most control over. The contenders shake out this way:

 

Quintana: 4.4 fWAR, 5.8 RA9 WAR (5.1)

Sale: 4.4 fWAR, 5.2 RA9 WAR (4.8)

Kluber: 4.5 fWAR, 4.7 RA9 WAR (4.6)

Tanaka: 4.5 fWAR, 4.4 RA9 WAR (4.45)

Verlander: 3.9 fWAR, 4.5 RA9 WAR (4.2)

 

[shysocks]

Not sure he will end up even being qualified. He's not currently (just 1.1 IP shy) but who knows how he'll hold up down the stretch in his first big league season. The last two starts have been a little rough. He only threw 10.1 innings between the two raising his ERA from 2.25 to 2.69. Unless they shuffle the rotation he has 6 starts left. He will need to average 5.1 per start to be qualified. A couple short outings could do him in. He is only .08 ahead of Quintana anyways so catching him is doable with the way Quintana has been pitching and Fulmer scuffling a bit in the 2nd half compared to his 1st half (still just a 3.50 ERA in the 2nd half).

A little off topic, but do they allow a pitcher who doesn't have the innings to qualify for the ERA title? With hitters and the batting title, they just add hitless at bats until they get to 502 plate appearances. I've never heard of anything similar for pitchers; don't think it exists.

[Rowand44]

Q is going to finish like 37th in the CY Young race guys.

[flavum]

Q is going to finish like 37th in the CY Young race guys.

 

He has 6 starts left, and while he's not going to win it, maybe a 15-10 record, 215 innings, and an ERA under 3 would stand out for a top 5. But there's a long way to go for that.

[lasttriptotulsa]

A little off topic, but do they allow a pitcher who doesn't have the innings to qualify for the ERA title? With hitters and the batting title, they just add hitless at bats until they get to 502 plate appearances. I've never heard of anything similar for pitchers; don't think it exists.

 

You're right it does not exist. If you are 1/3 of an inning shy. Tough luck. You can give up unlimited runs in the innings you are short of qualifying but you can only make one out in the plate appearances you are shy.

 

The only time I remember the plate appearance thing coming into play was Tony Gwynn in 1996. He was 4 PAs shy of qualifying. Giving him 4 hitless at bats dropped his average from .353 to .349 but it was still higher than Ellis Burk's .344 so he was awarded the batting title.

Edited August 31, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[lasttriptotulsa]

In case anybody didn't know or forgot, Quintana has the same Cy Young clause in his contract as Sale. If he wins a Cy Young his 2020 option increases from $10.5M to $14M. If he finishes 2nd or 3rd it jumps to $13M. Not that that is a big deal in any way as it's still chump change for his production but just wanted to point it out as a top 3 finish is very possible for him this year.

[Rowand44]

In case anybody didn't know or forgot, Quintana has the same Cy Young clause in his contract as Sale. If he wins a Cy Young his 2020 option increases from $10.5M to $14M. If he finishes 2nd or 3rd it jumps to $13M. Not that that is a big deal in any way as it's still chump change for his production but just wanted to point it out as a top 3 finish is very possible for him this year.

This honestly didn't even cross my mind, good post and reminder.

[flavum]

I just looked at the ESPN Cy Predictor. I kid you not, they have David Robertson at number 10. Q of course, no where to be seen. They can shut that feature down right now.

[Chisoxfn]

There is no way in hell that David Price should even be considered for the award. He's had an awful year.

Awful, no. Up to David Price's usual standards, no. Cy Young, no. Pretty good, yep, he's still been pretty good.

[bmags]

I like to go with 50/50 WAR for the Cy Young, gives credit for both results on the field and for pitching well enough on the things you have the most control over. The contenders shake out this way:

 

Quintana: 4.4 fWAR, 5.8 RA9 WAR (5.1)

Sale: 4.4 fWAR, 5.2 RA9 WAR (4.8)

Kluber: 4.5 fWAR, 4.7 RA9 WAR (4.6)

Tanaka: 4.5 fWAR, 4.4 RA9 WAR (4.45)

Verlander: 3.9 fWAR, 4.5 RA9 WAR (4.2)

 

Does Hamels not qualify?