Texsox Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6525/ 15 seasons, only one sub .500 season. Starts 30+ games a year - every year, another one for the "if he played in NY or Boston he'd be famous" award. I know this may end with the he should or should not be on the roster, personally that was years ago now, so who cares. But damn, pitchers like that are so rare. I'm just looking around the league today looking for things to cheer about and took a minute to see his career stacked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 He threw 8 shutout innings today for his 10th win. He probably has 20 or 21 starts left. In this season of the power pitchers going under the knife, Buehrle's season is a great contrast. Just shows what pitching is all about---changing speeds and locating. Not all about the radar gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) He's never been on the DL. One of the biggest mistakes in Sox history was to let him walk. He deserved a huge payday on the South Side. All pitchers should copy him; many Sox pitchers DID copy him. He's one of the rare baseball players worth every penny because of the example he sets for others. Get the ball and throw it. Don't f*** around. Pitch. His style rubs off on his teammates, if they have a brain. Cause they can see Buehrle's style works. I miss him greatly. Can't believe he's not a White Sox. He'll pitch forever if he wants to, like Moyer did. The name for him is crafty lefthander. Edited June 2, 2014 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 It's hard to believe that Buehrle is actually earning that awful contract so far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 05:45 AM) It's hard to believe that Buehrle is actually earning that awful contract so far this year. He's provided plus value every year of the contract so far. Using fangraphs numbers, he was paid $6 million in 2012 and was worth $8.6 million. In 2013 he was paid $11 million and was worth $12.7 million. So far this year he has been paid approximately $6 million and has been worth $9.7 million. While I still think it was a drastic overpay by the Marlins, he has lived up to the contract. His numbers since leaving the Sox have actually been better across the board than they were with the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8PAe33Xog Quick little video from the Around the Horn guys talking during a break. Plaschke mentions how the name Buehrle has become a verb around the league and other teams talk about getting Buehrle'd when they get fooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I liken Buehrle to Russel Wilson. The book on pitching is that you have to throw 94+ in order to make it as a pitcher. The book on QBs is that you have to be 6' 2" or taller to make it. They are the exceptions to the rule, but I don't believe that they disprove the rule. I don't disagree that an elite fastball or height are vital components to success. It's not impossible to succeed if you don't have them, but you have to be nearly perfect in all other aspects of your game in order to make up for those shortcomings. There aren't going to suddenly be dozens more Buehrles and Wilsons coming along. It's just way too difficult to succeed with their skillsets and they are unique men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:57 AM) He's provided plus value every year of the contract so far. Using fangraphs numbers, he was paid $6 million in 2012 and was worth $8.6 million. In 2013 he was paid $11 million and was worth $12.7 million. So far this year he has been paid approximately $6 million and has been worth $9.7 million. While I still think it was a drastic overpay by the Marlins, he has lived up to the contract. His numbers since leaving the Sox have actually been better across the board than they were with the Sox. 2012 & 2013 were never the problems with the contract. It was 2014 & 2015 when he is making $18 and $19 million per year. It takes a hell of a year to be worth that much money and he is somehow earning every penny so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 07:17 AM) 2012 & 2013 were never the problems with the contract. It was 2014 & 2015 when he is making $18 and $19 million per year. It takes a hell of a year to be worth that much money and he is somehow earning every penny so far. That's one way to look at the contract. Most people expected him to outearn the first couple seasons and be under the last two. Contracts aren't written for how a player is projected to play each season, but what fits best for the club and sometimes the player. As the club would you rather pay more now or later when an insured injury may end the career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 There may be a word to describe pitchers like Buehrle. That word is not "ace." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Buehrle is scheduled to face the Sox on June 28th. That is 5 starts away. With 196 wins currently, there is a realistic chance that Buehrle could be going for win #200 that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) Buehrle is scheduled to face the Sox on June 28th. That is 5 starts away. With 196 wins currently, there is a realistic chance that Buehrle could be going for win #200 that day. That would be against Sale if rotations hold. Buehrle facing the Cardinals, at Baltimore, twice against the Yankees in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) That would be against Sale if rotations hold. Buehrle facing the Cardinals, at Baltimore, twice against the Yankees in between. I love and miss Mark, but I'll give the advantage to Sale. Would love to have him back one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) That would be against Sale if rotations hold. Buehrle facing the Cardinals, at Baltimore, twice against the Yankees in between. I love and miss Mark, but I'll give the advantage to Sale. Would love to have him back one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Why isn't Buehrle an ace? In my mind he's better than an ace. He's f***ing unbelievable is what he is. Whoever let him walk and not pay him on the South Side should be ashamed. I can't believe some of the snide comments about Buehrle and Paulie, by far two of the greatest players in White Sox history. When Coop decides to retire, I hope Mark replaces him as pitching coach for the Sox. Edited June 2, 2014 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Why isn't Buehrle an ace? In my mind he's better than an ace. He's f***ing unbelievable is what he is. Whoever let him walk and not pay him on the South Side should be ashamed. I can't believe some of the snide comments about Buehrle and Paulie, by far two of the greatest players in White Sox history. When Coop decides to retire, I hope Mark replaces him as pitching coach for the Sox. First of all, Buehrle seems like the kind of guy who will get as far away from baseball fields as possible upon retiring. Secondly, while "ace" is a subjective measure, I think you can at least say that he has not had the consistency you would like from an ace. In 13 full seasons, he has had: An ERA+ of 130+ 3 times An ERA+ of 115-129 6 times An ERA+ of 100-114 4 times An ERA+ below 100 1 time I don't think of a guy with 38% of his seasons with an ERA+ below 115 as an ace. We all remember 2001, 2005 and 2007 really well but seem to gloss over 2003, 2006 and 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) First of all, Buehrle seems like the kind of guy who will get as far away from baseball fields as possible upon retiring. Secondly, while "ace" is a subjective measure, I think you can at least say that he has not had the consistency you would like from an ace. In 13 full seasons, he has had: An ERA+ of 130+ 3 times An ERA+ of 115-129 6 times An ERA+ of 100-114 4 times An ERA+ below 100 1 time I don't think of a guy with 38% of his seasons with an ERA+ below 115 as an ace. We all remember 2001, 2005 and 2007 really well but seem to gloss over 2003, 2006 and 2010. Since Mark has been in the league, who have been defined as "aces?" Aside from the 5-6 huge money teams, Boston, NYY, etc., name the aces. How many have been as consistent as Mark? Also, if you made a list of players that actually have earned huge contracts, he'd be on a short list of guys who have earned all the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) Why isn't Buehrle an ace? In my mind he's better than an ace. He's f***ing unbelievable is what he is. Whoever let him walk and not pay him on the South Side should be ashamed. I can't believe some of the snide comments about Buehrle and Paulie, by far two of the greatest players in White Sox history. When Coop decides to retire, I hope Mark replaces him as pitching coach for the Sox. Not to take anything away from Buehrle or Konerko, but there is another guy sitting in that Sox dugout that takes a lot of grief and was a better ballplayer than either one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Since Mark has been in the league, who have been defined as "aces?" Aside from the 5-6 huge money teams, Boston, NYY, etc., name the aces. How many have been as consistent as Mark? Also, if you made a list of players that actually have earned huge contracts, he'd be on a short list of guys who have earned all the money. I just showed you how he hasn't been consistent. He's been reliable, but not consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) Why isn't Buehrle an ace? In my mind he's better than an ace. He's f***ing unbelievable is what he is. Whoever let him walk and not pay him on the South Side should be ashamed. I can't believe some of the snide comments about Buehrle and Paulie, by far two of the greatest players in White Sox history. When Coop decides to retire, I hope Mark replaces him as pitching coach for the Sox. What are your thoughts on Jose Quintana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 08:27 PM) Not to take anything away from Buehrle or Konerko, but there is another guy sitting in that Sox dugout that takes a lot of grief and was a better ballplayer than either one of them. Who, Harold? I don't understand how anybody can't be a HUGE Buehrle fan and not as upset as me that the Sox let him go. To me his greatness is a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 09:20 PM) What are your thoughts on Jose Quintana? I like him as a prospect. Hopefully he'll stay healthy and have lasting power as Buehrle has had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) I like him as a prospect. Hopefully he'll stay healthy and have lasting power as Buehrle has had. Prospect? He is in his third year in the majors now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) Who, Harold? I don't understand how anybody can't be a HUGE Buehrle fan and not as upset as me that the Sox let him go. To me his greatness is a no brainer. No, not Harold. I'm talking about that multiple time gold glove winning 3B who put up 33% more WAR than Konerko in 6 less seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 To me defining words like ace is kind of a pointless exercise. He fits some of what I would call an ace, not others. But there is no definitive definition that all fans would ever agree on. I do know this, with a rotation of five MB's, a team would win a lot of pennants over a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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